CALLING ALL "SALT" LOVERS! Ideas for a new "salt" knife.

[twinboysdad]

Thanks as always for your patience with us Sal

I took some inspiration from some of our collective ideas and came up with this. The blade began as a caspian salt, it got a more pointed upswept tip, slight negative blade angle, the mild S combo edge, emerson wave and put it into a pac salt handle. A top swedge could also be included to give an even finer tip.

it's...it's...
it's perfect, w3tnz! Anyone who cant get behind that just needs their eyes checked!!! Thanks for the photoshop, LOVE it

anyway you could photoshop that choil jimped?

[Surfingringo]

Thanks as always for your patience with us Sal

I took some inspiration from some of our collective ideas and came up with this. The blade began as a caspian salt, it got a more pointed upswept tip, slight negative blade angle, the mild S combo edge, emerson wave and put it into a pac salt handle. A top swedge could also be included to give an even finer tip.

Nice work man. Thanks for taking the time to provide an illustration of some of our rough ideas. If I may be so bold, I'm going to use this illustration to point out a few things that I like and things I don't. Don't take that personally please. It's this first visual that's even making that possible. Also, I know that some of the things I'm going to point out are only in your design because you used an existing model didn't go OCD photoshopping every little detail, but I'd like to discuss the details anyway and see what y'all think. So...

Likes
1. General blade shape and angle
2. Half serrations
3. Surprisingly I'm ok with the "Wave". I have never been a fan, but I can see this feature being useful for hook removal and "prying" tasks on the boat. I think it could make sense for a salt/outdoor knife.
4. I especially like how you were able to incorporate that blade with the pacific salt handle. As I've said, I'm a huge fan of a finger choil. Though this doesn't technically have a choil, I believe the design would offer multiple grips and give the ability to choke up on the blade.

Things I would change or tweak
1. I don't care for the blade grind (I'm aware that's just the grind off the caspian). I would definitely want something that was made as more of a slicer.
2. I am hoping we end up with an option for a stronger handle design. Whether that's linered frn or linered or un-linered g10 I don't really care. But I hope if they are going to entertain an entirely new heavy dty salt folder, they will at least consider options for making it a bit more stout.
3. I would want to see a slightly shorter serrated section on a ce. Ie, remove one "set" of serrations from this example. Also I would like to see a fully se with one less serration than what the pacific salt has. As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, I believe the military model is a stellar example of how to proportion serrations on both a se and a ce.
4. I am not fully convinced about the recurve idea. My concern is that one of my main uses for my salt knives (especially the serrated ones) is processing fish. I'm not sure if the recurve section would hinder this by not being able to work against a flat cutting board. It might work fine, I'm just not sure. I know a serrated recurve section can work great for other things, but I'm just looking at my overall uses. I might cut some rope a couple of times a year. I clean fish everyday. Again, I'm not saying I wouldn't want it, I'm just saying I'm not sure.

Ok, those are my thoughts. Thank you again for taking the time to modify and illustrate this idea. Please don't hear any of this as criticism. It's actually your illustration that enabled me to make more accurate descriptions about what I think is important. We needed someone to do this. Thanks for stepping up.

[Evil D]

You can all but guarantee that whatever knife may come from this discussion, it will be a hollow grind. May as well just accept that now and move on, though I would be all over a flat ground H1 knife especially if it were SE.

[Surfingringo]

I think a hollowgrind is accepted. But there's lots of different grinds within that classification.

[Evil D]

Yeah, unfortunately it seems like most of the H1 hollow grinds are rather low on the blade, and don't make the best slicers. The Dfly is the best H1 hollow grind I've seen them put out, it's very high on the blade and is actually higher in overall height than knives twice the size. It's also a very shallow grind so you get less wedging effect when making deep slices through stiff material. By comparison, my Yojimbo 2 doesn't slice nearly as well, but of course it has a much thicker blade, so maybe if slicing is the goal, a thinner blade is the way to go (again, another reason the Centofante 3/4 would be a great option for this since it has a 2mm blade).

[w3tnz]

Ok, those are my thoughts. Thank you again for taking the time to modify and illustrate this idea. Please don't hear any of this as criticism. It's actually your illustration that enabled me to make more accurate descriptions about what I think is important. We needed someone to do this. Thanks for stepping up.

Please feel free to criticise away, no offence will be taken, it was merely a visual representation of some ideas we have discussed- made in ms paint (I wish I had Photoshop :p ). I could certainly live with one less serration, and liners- as long as its cost effective. I think the recurve is subtle enough to allow you to process fish while still give an advantage cutting rope/line, you could always follow through with the belly of the blade to complete a cut on a flat surface, while letting the serrations do most of the work. My thoughts are still to not specialise at one task in particular.

I really like your thoughts about using the wave as an improvised tool, I had not even considered that, the self open could always be defeated by carrying the knife clipped to the outside of the pocket, iwb/owb etc.

[Surfingringo]

Yeah, unfortunately it seems like most of the H1 hollow grinds are rather low on the blade, and don't make the best slicers. The Dfly is the best H1 hollow grind I've seen them put out, it's very high on the blade and is actually higher in overall height than knives twice the size. It's also a very shallow grind so you get less wedging effect when making deep slices through stiff material. By comparison, my Yojimbo 2 doesn't slice nearly as well, but of course it has a much thicker blade, so maybe if slicing is the goal, a thinner blade is the way to go (again, another reason the Centofante 3/4 would be a great option for this since it has a 2mm blade).

Agreed 100% on the dragonfly salt. That is a great hollow grind IMO.

[Surfingringo]

Please feel free to criticise away, no offence will be taken, it was merely a visual representation of some ideas we have discussed- made in ms paint (I wish I had Photoshop :p ). I could certainly live with one less serration, and liners- as long as its cost effective. I think the recurve is subtle enough to allow you to process fish while still give an advantage cutting rope/line, you could always follow through with the belly of the blade to complete a cut on a flat surface, while letting the serrations do most of the work. My thoughts are still to not specialise at one task in particular.

I really like your thoughts about using the wave as an improvised tool, I had not even considered that, the self open could always be defeated by carrying the knife clipped to the outside of the pocket, iwb/owb etc.

You know the only reason I think of that with the wave is there have been numerous times when I have forgotten my pliers when I went out on the kayak. I have more than once used the spydie hole on my pacific salt to dislodge a treble hook from some toothy fish. Not the perfect tool, but it works in a pinch. Lot better than sticking your fingers in there!

A mackerel and a snapper for reference.

[twinboysdad]

the wave on this knife is a bottle opener first and foremost

This might be shot down by most here, but how's about adding a set of tweezers in the scales ala SAK? And if no to the tweezers, at least a factory milled slot to stick em?

[spambait11]

Still favor something like a Spyderco Memory in H1, FRN scales, with back lock weighing 1.5oz. or less. Not interested in carrying around any monstrosities.

[MCM]

Great thread Lance! And good to see you over here!
My 2........ 3 3/4" - 4" blade. P/E or full serrated.
Not sure if its possible, but something other than a back lock.
I like to fish with a folding knife that I can swing the blade out easily with one hand. (M390 805 most often)
I mainly just use the folder for cutting line & such. A crappy fixed blade to cut bait, a nice long blade fixed to clean.
But on a Kayak you probably don't want to carry (3) knives LOL LOL.
Am sure you guys will come up with a winner! And I will buy a couple.
Oh, and BTW, I can still use more photos! :) Did you forget?
Am still thinking about a Hobie, but my retired next door neighbor has a
26 Ft. Seaswirl Striper in a slip 10 minutes away and I am his only buddy that can fish. :D
(Not a bad spot to be in)

Take care!
Mark

[Surfingringo]

Hey mark, good to see ya. Yes, I forgot. :) I just mailed you a couple of fishing photos from last week. I'll remember to take more this week. I've been lazy about taking pics lately.

I hear ya about the three knives. I have good blades for all different chores, I just love the idea of a fishing knife that I can carry in my waistband that can "do it all" in a pinch. And not just a fishing knife. I am trying to imagine a perfect all around outdoors folding knife that does everything a fisherman could want, but isn't so specific that it loses it's relevancy when you get out of the boat.

[MCM]

I have an idea....................
How about a small "like a seat belt cutter" intigrated into it for cutting line? Not big like a seat belt cutter, but the same concept.
Something that would work on 20 lb as well as
100-120 lb leader.

Hey mark, good to see ya. Yes, I forgot. :) I just mailed you a couple of fishing photos from last week. I'll remember to take more this week. I've been lazy about taking pics lately.

I hear ya about the three knives. I have good blades for all different chores, I just love the idea of a fishing knife that I can carry in my waistband that can "do it all" in a pinch. And not just a fishing knife. I am trying to imagine a perfect all around outdoors folding knife that does everything a fisherman could want, but isn't so specific that it loses it's relevancy when you get out of the boat.

[Jazz]

I actually think the Salt 1 and Pacific are great all around shapes, so why not just offer them in a titanium handle option. I'd like a more heavy duty version of each, although they're tough as nails already. Titanium handles would look nice with the barrel bolt. :cool:

[Surfingringo]

I actually think the Salt 1 and Pacific are great all around shapes, so why not just offer them in a titanium handle option. I'd like a more heavy duty version of each, although they're tough as nails already. Titanium handles would look nice with the barrel bolt. :cool:

As I've mentioned before in this thread, I have a new found love for my pacific salt after regrinding the spine! I would love to see a price tag on a titanium handle pacific. Problem is, they would have to change the tip for me to be interested. I doubt I could be as cavalier about grinding away on the ti model as I was on my frn pacific salt!

I would also love to see a completely new design based on a lot of the input here. I think there is a market for a more rugged outdoor salt knife. Having said that, I also think an easy call for right now would be to offer a combo edge pacific salt in the style of the military ce. I know that ce isn't for everyone, but there is obviously a market for it and it's probably as (or more) useful on a fishing/boating knife as it is on any design. It's also a new offering that doesn't cost anything extra to create. I don't know how many they would sell, but they would definitely sell one to me. And for the last time (I promise) I will shamelessly beg for a half inch more pe on the se model. That blade would lose nothing in cutting ability and become much more useful.

P.S. Because of the shorter blade on the salt 1 I doubt I would be interested in a ce, but a se with that slightly longer pe portion would be awesome! You can count me in for another sale on that one. :)

[Jazz]

As you may know, I've modded a few knives myself...





... but I much prefer the strengthened tip on this knife...



I still find there's enough point for 99% of my uses, and I love the strength of it and the confidence in the blade it inspires. That doesn't mean I don't like a point - I carry the pointy Pacific when I kayak, along with my Caspian with the blunt tip.

I guess I'm saying these are all I need, unless we get either titanium handles or a new model with a marlinspike.

[Surfingringo]

Nice regrind. That's basically the same thing I did to mine. I hear you on the tip strength issue. I find myself needing the finer tip more than the added strength, but that grind we did on our pacific salts might be too delicate for many. You prefer the strength of the original for example. Many others would agree with you I'm sure. My hope would be to have the best of both worlds. A finer tip that's better at piercing without sacrificing as much strength as our regrinds do. Until then though I'm happy taking off a little metal to make it suit my needs.

P.S. Nice whittling jazz! I've heard somewhere that h1 is good for that. :o

[Divo]

My hope would be to have the best of both worlds. A finer tip that's better at piercing without sacrificing as much strength as our regrinds do.

Best of both Worlds
Sounds good and I completely understand your wishes but . . . it’s a UTOPIA.

In general when you have two tools that perform each on a different/opposite level. Then when you combine them, only on overlapping levels you create some more range, but you cut off the part where they really excel. So you will end with a good overall tool but it excels in nothing.


Example:
-Roadrace bike
-MTB
-Hybrid

A roadracebike excels in particular things like speed, endurance, paved roads.
A mtb excels in total different area. Woods, hills, dirt, unpaved roads.

Then they made a hybrid and advertised it as: Best of Both Worlds.
This of course is utter nonsense.

Looking to properties. They overlap each other in the middle, but then when you go away from the middle they perform mediocre and there where the individual bikes excel, in the hybrid these things don’t exist. A hybrid doesn’t qualify for roadrace biking, neither it qualifies for mtb stuff.

[BDNX]

I think we need some sort of Slipit Salt....around 3" blade....definitely a Slipit...

[Jeremy_A_Neel]

it's...it's...
it's perfect, w3tnz! Anyone who cant get behind that just needs their eyes checked!!! Thanks for the photoshop, LOVE it

anyway you could photoshop that choil jimped?

Take way the combo edge, and you have a winner in my book