CPM-S35VN and CrimsonTideShooter test

[CrimsonTideShooter]

I've talked to a few makers about the steel, and the steel is fine. Jim's knife was fine, as others have been that have tested it.

Sal's test will prove the steel to be what it should be.

Please people, do not hesitate to buy a knife with this steel because of ONE persons You Tube vid.

Lol you act like I've been crusading against the steel. My videos were posted without my knowledge, and the tests were for my my own knowledge. They were never meant to be used as evidence against anyone or anything.


Plus, I'm telling people that the steel is just fine and that no one should be worried about buying an S35VN knife.

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Hey Crimson,

You can probably get the screws faster by calling or emailing Charlynn in customer service. She can send them out right away.

When you did your test, was the edge of the blade in constant contact with the cutting board throughout all of the cuts?

sal

Yeah I plant the edge and then draw slice through the rope.

I ran a little test last night to see if the cutting board is dulling my edges, and the affect is negligable. I used more force than I do when making the cuts, and I did literally hundreds of back and forth motion in a short amount of time. I'll record it if y'all would like. :)

[Ankerson]

Yeah the wood shouldn't be having much effect on dulling the edge to a large extent, the rope is far more abrasive than the wood.

[Cliff Stamp]

Yeah the wood shouldn't be having much effect on dulling the edge to a large extent, the rope is far more abrasive than the wood.

The dulling isn't really by abrasion in either the wood or the rope. Put a scratch in the side of the blade and try to polish it out with the rope, it will take a very long time. The rope has a very low abrasive load on the steel, even mild steel can resist the abrasion of natural ropes for a very long time. I sharpened a piece of tension bar and cut 126 pieces of 3/8" hemp rope before the edge was significantly worn. Tension bar is mild steel which can not be hardened and was just hot rolled stock.

The edge is mainly dulling due to mechanical loads, compressive and lateral and the reason it fails primarily is due to inconsistencies in the edge which act as focal points for the loads and thus there is tear out and micro fracture and deformation. This is why often the edge can jump back up dramatically with just a smooth steeling as there is very little metal loss unless you cut something like used carpet or rope.

Note as well that the load on the edge due to the rope during the cutting is less than 1/10 of the load being exerted in the cut because the bulk of the force that you are exerting during the rope cutting is actually against the flat of the edge. However when the edge hits the wood you still complete the cut with the full force. Thus if you make a 20 lbs cut through the rope on a cutting board you are making a 1-2 lbs cut against the rope, but then a 20 lbs cut on the wood.

If you watch CTS's video, the part that is strongly reflecting light is the exact part which contacts the wood, the part of the edge which did the rope cutting is in comparison almost unaffected. When I switched from supported to unsupported cutting I did it mainly to reduce the effect that the cutting ability had on edge retention as otherwise it is impossible to compare blades unless they are near identical. At that time I repeated some of the work and direct comparisons with and without a support material will show a many to one time effect as again you are comparing 100 cuts through hemp with 1-2 lbs of load vs 100 slices into hardwood with 10-20 lbs of load. At the end of the day this is physics, natural laws rule.

You can see the same thing even much more dramatic if you cut the rope while it is under light tension. The rope will open up dramatically and so you can cut it with far less force and thus the results will increase significantly and the edge retention will again be many to one times greater. This of course is why in free hanging rope cuts people will often let a lot of rope hang under the cut as this weight will not only stabilize the rope in the cut, it forces it open as the cut is being made. Same thin with wood cuts and why you can cut very thick wood with a small knife if you just bend the wood in the cut.

[JNewell]

I like the knife, smaller than I would normally use, but it very well designed and VERY comfortable with no hot spots that I noticed and I didn't wear gloves during the testing. It's not light at all, it's built like a tank. :)

I will have to use it at work to really see how it handles in that situation and the variety of cutting tasks that I do.

Excellent feedback, thanks! (I read your posts on this knife at BF after I'd posted the post above.)

[JNewell]

Lol you act like I've been crusading against the steel. My videos were posted without my knowledge, and the tests were for my my own knowledge. They were never meant to be used as evidence against anyone or anything.


Plus, I'm telling people that the steel is just fine and that no one should be worried about buying an S35VN knife.

John, I have no axe (and no knife) to grind in this debate, so this is coming from a neutral perspective...you can't expect any of us to take the statement in bold red above seriously, can you? If you do, you're lying about your age - you must be over 90 YO. Posting a video on YouTube is far, far more public than posting on a forum. Really... :)

[Donut]

I like the knife, smaller than I would normally use, but it very well designed and VERY comfortable with no hot spots that I noticed and I didn't wear gloves during the testing. It's not light at all, it's built like a tank. :)

I will have to use it at work to really see how it handles in that situation and the variety of cutting tasks that I do.

In my opinion, it is very light compared to other knives that are as wide was the Native 5. The liners are thicker than I am used to seeing, but they are VERY skeletonized. It feels big, but is not too heavy.

[CrimsonTideShooter]

John, I have no axe (and no knife) to grind in this debate, so this is coming from a neutral perspective...you can't expect any of us to take the statement in bold red above seriously, can you? If you do, you're lying about your age - you must be over 90 YO. Posting a video on YouTube is far, far more public than posting on a forum. Really... :)

Are you questioning the truth that someone took my video and posted it on the forums without me knowing? I put the video on YouTube for my viewers, not for it to be rushed off to the forums for scrutiny.

[JNewell]

Are you questioning the truth that someone took my video and posted it on the forums without me knowing? I put the video on YouTube for my viewers, not for it to be rushed off to the forums for scrutiny.

No, what I saying is that posting something on YouTube is like publishing something in (go back 20 years) Time Magazine. If every newspaper in the country then picks up your story, you can hardly say that you didn't make your story public. If you post a video on YouTube, you have to expect it will be all over the internet within 24-48 hours - that is the nature of YouTube.

[MIL-DOT]

Lol you act like I've been crusading against the steel. My videos were posted without my knowledge, and the tests were for my my own knowledge. They were never meant to be used as evidence against anyone or anything.

Now,come on,bro. I've largely been on your side through all this, but your arguments are beginning to falter.
First, your objections focussed heavily on this particular steel, from early on. And whether or not the videos were posted on any forums with or without your knowledge isn't the issue. The fact is that you posted them on the WWW, before an audience of millions ( and potentially billions) , so claiming that they were "for your own knowledge" doesn't even begin to hold water.
Were that the case, you'd have never posted them in the first place, but merely filed them away at home.

[Slash]

good thing his studies are in the medical field. because as a lawyer trying to make a case...everyone of his clients would get the electric chair.

jk, don't take things so personal. after all, it's only steel. we're not trying to cure cancer here.

[Ankerson]

Now, now, guys lets wait and see what Sal says about the knife once he gets it from John.

Lets not burn John at the stake here.... Friendly forum and all

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Now,come on,bro. I've largely been on your side through all this, but your arguments are beginning to falter.
First, your objections focussed heavily on this particular steel, from early on. And whether or not the videos were posted on any forums with or without your knowledge isn't the issue. The fact is that you posted them on the WWW, before an audience of millions ( and potentially billions) , so claiming that they were "for your own knowledge" doesn't even begin to hold water.
Were that the case, you'd have never posted them in the first place, but merely filed them away at home.

I don't have an argument. At this point I couldn't care less what anyone on this forum or any other forum for that matter thinks about me or my tests. I do it because I get tons of requests to do them. And if I find that a steel doesn't perform then guess what? I'll make it public knowledge.

In fact I made a video telling everyone that S35VN is still a great steel. Bet you didn't see that one huh? Lol. I do these tests for my YouTube channel, and that's it. Whether or not you armchair metallurgists have a problem with them or not is not my concern. It's fun for me, and I will continue to do them. If they get posted on a forum then so be it, but I won't be stepping in and defending the un-defendable.

Thanks to Cliff, Sal, and Jim. The rest of you guys ^^^ who have no clue what testing is all about can continue to scrutinize my every move, as it's honestly flattering. There's no telling how many subs I've gained from it.

Shiny footprints!

[l2lku]

Are you questioning the truth that someone took my video and posted it on the forums without me knowing? I put the video on YouTube for my viewers, not for it to be rushed off to the forums for scrutiny.

I will say it again, I support what you do, so don't take this the wrong way, but don't start to discredit yourself with statements like this. I got to your channel through your signature on BF that clicks through directly to your channel.

And from my perspective, these two statements appear in direct conflict of each other.

My videos were posted without my knowledge, and the tests were for my my own knowledge.

And if I find that a steel doesn't perform then guess what? I'll make it public knowledge.

I am really wanting to take you seriously here, but like in my earlier unanswered post, I am starting to see contradicting and conflicting statements coming from you.

I appreciate that you are trying to share your knowledge with us, but honestly I think you need to relax and stick with that, and not get into some of the broad-brush generalizations you make about other people. And if you start to question others' credibility they will start to question yours.

In my opinion you should just make your videos and let them be self evident.

There has been much criticism about how Chris Reeve responded when challenged and much praise for how Sal Glesser responded when challenged (not personally but indirectly through their products). But I see you getting pissy with anybody that does not agree with you and challenges you. Take a lesson from Sal on this and take the high road, use being challenged as an opportunity to learn. That is shiny footprints, not how you are reacting to much of this.

I am not meaning to lecture you here, but I wish you the best and my hope is that maybe you will find some value in what I am saying. It may be BS - you can decide for yourself.

[MIL-DOT]

I've been pretty much on your side through this,John, and was just inches away from returning my N5 to CS,based largely on your word, yet this is the 2nd time you've compeletely over-reacted to a post of mine.

In fact I made a video telling everyone that S35VN is still a great steel. Bet you didn't see that one huh? Lol.

Actually, I did see it. In fact,I agreed with what you said in it....that you were "back-pedaling" ( concerning your previous statements.:rolleyes :)

It's fun for me, and I will continue to do them.

In the above-referenced video,just a couple days ago, you said, "This isn't fun for me anymore", largely due to the armchair metalurgists that you now claim to be unconcerned with. :rolleyes:

And if I find that a steel doesn't perform then guess what? I'll make it public knowledge.

Well,which is it ? You just said a few minutes ago that they are "for your own knowledge".

I haven't questioned you,your motives, your methods, or your results. But me and several others here are questioning some of the erroneous,irrational arguments you keep making.
These are separate issues,entirely.
Just freindly debate, still shiny footprints.......no worries :D .


BTW, you mail that knife yet ?


( I didn't see the above post by l2lku till I posted this, but he makes valid points. )

[bchan]

Any casual user of Youtube knows that sharing a Youtube video is just a click away -- just press the 'Share' button below the video. And the purpose of setting up a channel is, among other things, to allow others to see your videos.

Any person who posts a video to an open website such as Youtube and then claims that his video is not meant to be for public viewing is either naive; or inept with computer (but then he would not post to Youtube in the first place?); or plain lying; or he thinks the persons listening to his claim are either naive or inept.

I know the principle of 'shiny footprints', but sorry, in my view this argument of 'posting without my knowledge etc.' simply does not hold water.

[sal]

Come on guys,

CTS did not have any ill motive. Let's not build any into the test. We are all seekers of truth. That's what he was doing. His test offered questions that we are all trying to answer. No fault, no blame. Just a bunch of knife afi's learning about an edge made from a particular medium, be it bronze, flint or S35VN.

We need to live and think on a higher plane.

The analysis of John's test has been / and is a great learning exprience for all of us. Pobody's Nerfect.

sal

[maxbelg]

..........We need to live and think on a higher plane.........
sal

You're right of course Sal!

Unfortunately not every manufacturer is able to remain so ZEN about allegations that they produce an inferior product. Their inability to respond from an enlightened perspective doesn't change the quality of the product they produce, and that is what I am ultimately interested in.

[xavierdoc]

Jim and Johns' tests are both valid and their findings are not mutually exclusive. We must not be distracted from the issue of interest here: evaluating a "new" steel.

I am grateful for any additional information amateur testers can provide: research will always produce conflicting or disparate results due to myriad variations in method, sample, study design etc.

We must evaluate results objectively; difficult when knives are a passion.

If you shoot the messengers, you stop receiving news!

[sal]

Hi 12lku, Maxbelg,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum. Certainly a controversial subject in which you chose to participate.

Hope you enjoy your time here. Lot of very special members.

sal