Military 2 Discussion (Merged)

[James Y]

Unfortunately, I no longer want to own a Military 2 Salt, which had been one of my dream knives, along with the PM2 Salt. The scale texture design relative to the clips landing spots, on both models, was enough to turn me off to both. Very disappointing for me.

The Para 3 Salt looks like a possibility, because at least its clip appears to land on the flat spot in the texture pattern.

Strange that there seems to be QC issues with the Military 2 Salt's screw lengths.

Jim

[vivi]

Unfortunately, I no longer want to own a Military 2 Salt, which had been one of my dream knives, along with the PM2 Salt. The scale texture design relative to the clips landing spots, on both models, was enough to turn me off to both. Very disappointing for me.

The Para 3 Salt looks like a possibility, because at least its clip appears to land on the flat spot in the texture pattern.

Strange that there seems to be QC issues with the Military 2 Salt's screw lengths.

Jim

My Military 2 Salt is smoother on the draw than the FRN Police 4 for what it's worth.

Overall I'm on the same page as you with this clip issue. I hope no more large FRN models are made with that flaw.

[Wartstein]

...
Overall I'm on the same page as you with this clip issue. I hope no more large FRN models are made with that flaw.

I think at the moment I personally don´t own a model with this problem, but as discussed before and with all due respect to Spyderco:

I am a bit surprised that this issue even (still) exists, since in my view it would be such an easy fix. Especially for a company who is a bit known for "function over form (optics)".
What would be the harm in creating the handle in a way that there is a "main" landing spot for tip up or tip down and a "secondary" smooth landing spot for the other clip orientation?
Or just make the smooth logo long enough for both?

If I got a Millie Salt, I´d definitely have to smooth out the landing area for the clip since all my rfp look pretty shredded anyway already from frequently drawing Spydies that even are not that "shreddy"...

(Btw.: The Millie Salt is still a G10 and not FRN model, right?)

[shunsui]

Some things to consider.

The handle is machined so that only one or two bumps will contact the curve of the clip. Not much needs smoothing or sanding under the clip.

I thought the smooth line running lengthwise down the middle of the handle is the functional "landing spot". I think Erik mentioned that in one of those YouTube interviews. Let me know if I'm wrong on that.

[Zipper]

Some things to consider.

I thought the smooth line running lengthwise down the middle of the handle is the functional "landing spot". I think Erik mentioned that in one of those YouTube interviews. Let me know if I'm wrong on that.

Not sure which model Erik was referring to. I didn’t see the interview. I can’t comment on the M2 Salt, but can confirm this is the case on my PM2 Salt with the OEM clip changed to tip up carry.

[Manixguy@1994]

...
Overall I'm on the same page as you with this clip issue. I hope no more large FRN models are made with that flaw.

I think at the moment I personally don´t own a model with this problem, but as discussed before and with all due respect to Spyderco:

I am a bit surprised that this issue even (still) exists, since in my view it would be such an easy fix. Especially for a company who is a bit known for "function over form (optics)".
What would be the harm in creating the handle in a way that there is a "main" landing spot for tip up or tip down and a "secondary" smooth landing spot for the other clip orientation?
Or just make the smooth logo long enough for both?

If I got a Millie Salt, I´d definitely have to smooth out the landing area for the clip since all my rfp look pretty shredded anyway already from frequently drawing Spydies that even are not that "shreddy"...

(Btw.: The Millie Salt is still a G10 and not FRN model, right?)

Mil2 Salt is G10 . Dan

[vivi]

the draw isn't as bad as expected. it's a consistent amount of force required.

my hang up with the FRN Police is it took a regular amount of force to initiate unclipping it, but then it'd get caught up on my pocket every time before the clip released it's hold on my pocket.

while the military 2 salt requires a bit more effort to unclip than my regular military 2, it isn't as big of a difference as the g10 police 4 vs frn police 4.

The G10 has an extra coarse texture in between regular spyderco g10 and the siren, so even if the landing pad were bigger it'd still have that coarse texture.

I'm leaving mine stock for now. I expected the clip to perform worse but it's definitely not as bad as the FRN Police or FRN Chief, no doubt.

To sum it up, this is a great knife, and any clip issues it may have are too minor to keep yourself from owning it IMO.

Again, I say this as one of the most vocal critics of this issue on larger knives. It's better than I expected after I saw prototype photos.

[phaust]

Some things to consider.

The handle is machined so that only one or two bumps will contact the curve of the clip. Not much needs smoothing or sanding under the clip.

I thought the smooth line running lengthwise down the middle of the handle is the functional "landing spot". I think Erik mentioned that in one of those YouTube interviews. Let me know if I'm wrong on that.

It does not help enough to matter. Maybe it should be wider?

[James Y]

Unfortunately, I no longer want to own a Military 2 Salt, which had been one of my dream knives, along with the PM2 Salt. The scale texture design relative to the clips landing spots, on both models, was enough to turn me off to both. Very disappointing for me.

The Para 3 Salt looks like a possibility, because at least its clip appears to land on the flat spot in the texture pattern.

Strange that there seems to be QC issues with the Military 2 Salt's screw lengths.

Jim

My Military 2 Salt is smoother on the draw than the FRN Police 4 for what it's worth.

Overall I'm on the same page as you with this clip issue. I hope no more large FRN models are made with that flaw.

I had to switch my FRN Police 4 to tip-down carry for the clip to land on the flattened logo. In tip-up position, it was a pocket shredder.

This is really something that Spyderco needs to consider when designing handle texturing. It's a bit surprising, because, as Wartstein mentioned, Spyderco is usually very detail-oriented about function over aesthetics. I don't see any advantages to having the clip's landing spot on the "stepped" pattern on the FRN models, or on the extra-rough pattern on the G10 Salts, just to maintain a symmetrical appearance in the texturing pattern. It would seem that having either two flat landing surfaces (if not one larger flat spot in the center) for either tip-up or tip-down, for both right and left-hand carry shouldn't be too difficult to incorporate into a handle's design pattern.

I know that it's already too late and would be too costly to incorporate any changes to the current models, but perhaps this is something to consider for future models' handle designs.

I've never had any problems with the knives with the standard G10 texturing in that regard.

Jim

[vivi]

para 1 thread was getting derailed, so moving my reply here:

Very cool! I have had one for years and I used to carry it quite a bit. It is amazing how much more refined the designs are now.

Maybe someday that'll be the forum opinion of the Military 2.

It's funny how much more controversy there was changing the Military than there was changing the Paramilitary.

They both went through mostly identical changes. One was hailed as the second coming of jesus by just about everyone here......while years after release many are still salty about the Military 2.

Actually I was a Paramilitary 1 loyalist in the beginning, until I got a Para 2 in my hand, just like with the Military 2. I remember people claiming it was all hype too.

Tweaking the shape is one thing but changing a lock is too much change for some people, and the uproar would be the same if they brought out a Para 2 with a liner lock. Some would rejoice but I think most wouldn't.

I guess I'm lucky to like both lock types so I just see it more as a pros and cons thing and for me it just about cancels itself out because I like every other change they made regardless of the lock type. If they made the changes to the choil and clip positions and such but kept it as a liner lock I'd still be calling it a win.

I guess I just don't get why the lock change is so controversial. They're both lightweight detent based locks, biggest difference is the comp lock is easier to close without putting your hand in the path of the blade.

Manix vs Manix XL was a much more drastic lock change, and that was accepted with less controversy. I think even all of us interested in a sprint C95 own multiple XL's with the cbbl, myself included.

In the end though, I was right. Even here, where the changes were considered more controversial than on other knife web forums, we're seeing a lot more military 2's in the "what's in your pocket?" thread than 1's, just as I predicted.

Given 5 more years I expect the ratio of M2 photos to M1 photos to align with the ratio of para 2 vs para 1 photos we see.

[D-Pete]

So I measured the tips on each one and here is what I found:
S90V - 0.029
S110V - 0.030
SPY27 - 0.033
CruWear - 0.029
15V - 0.028

So they are all very close all by margins of error.

Hi Chris,

Thanks for doing the measurements.
Indeed a bit of variation, but all close.

D-Pete

[Wartstein]

..
I guess I just don't get why the lock change is so controversial. They're both lightweight detent based locks, biggest difference is the comp lock is easier to close without putting your hand in the path of the blade.

Manix vs Manix XL was a much more drastic lock change, and that was accepted with less controversy. I think even all of us interested in a sprint C95 own multiple XL's with the cbbl, myself included.

In the end though, I was right. Even here, where the changes were considered more controversial than on other knife web forums, we're seeing a lot more military 2's in the "what's in your pocket?" thread than 1's, just as I predicted.

Given 5 more years I expect the ratio of M2 photos to M1 photos to align with the ratio of para 2 vs para 1 photos we see.

Well, then I´ll move my reply to here too..

- Again: To me it is a bit weird that on the one hand many here clearly state that for them the M2 comp.lock is a big improvement compared to the linerlock of the M1, so admit that it DOES make a real difference...
... but sometimes still ignore that this undisputed difference can also be perceived vice versa.. so for folks like me and some others here a linerlock just works better (for me in all capacities like operation, ergos, safety).
So those who feel the Millie 2 got better due to the comp.lock should understand that the change in locktype of course is controversial, cause it obviously does change things - for those who praise the Millie 2 for that change as well as for those who feel the other way round
(I want to repeat Davids example here once more: What would people say if for example PM2 or Shaman were cqi -ed to linerlock? No big deal... ?)

- The difference between liner- and comp.lock is more substantial to me than between backlock and CBBL - when it comes to operation and especially ergos . Of course completely subjective, depends on what particular features people find important.

- I am certain that the Millie 2 would be more popular than the Millie 1 anyway, so I don´t dispute this..
But "that we see more Millie 2s in the "pocket thread"" just has to be the case anyway too... I mean the Millie 2 got announced and discussed as an "improvement over" and not an "alternative to" the Millie 1 - the "2" alone suggests that this is the "better", newer version - it gets all the sprints and all the attention and hype on social media ... of course "the market" wants THAT one... add to that that the linerlock gets a bad rep anyway due to the many crappy linerlocks out there (of other brands) and often not a fair assessment of its advantages..

But, again: Creating the Millie 2 definitely was a great idea and smart move by Spyderco!
So many like it and it apparently is a real success, and I am glad that this is the case.

But just as you generally would like to see more big and more Salt knives in the Spyderco lineup instead of smaller and "corrosive" ones, I personally would like to see an a bit better balance between comp.lock and linerlock in the mid to high end range. As far as available variants go, the linerlock Millie 1 actually begins to "disappear" a bit already (don´t think we´ll ever see a Milli 1 Salt for example).

[BaronKrause]

I just got a Salt Military 2 and think some people are blowing the clip landing pad situation a bit out of proportion, the line in the center is the actual landing spot and on any of the Salt models and the second you put a deep carry clip on the clip hits in a different area anyway and still works fine. It functionally doesn’t matter.

That being said my Military 2 while having perfect centering and no real lock stick, has 2-3mm of detent lash when shut. The blade shouldn’t move at all when closed, but this one can move up and down a bit and I’m unfortunately likely to get rid of it because of that.

[ejames13]

I just got a Salt Military 2 and think some people are blowing the clip landing pad situation a bit out of proportion, the line in the center is the actual landing spot and on any of the Salt models and the second you put a deep carry clip on the clip hits in a different area anyway and still works fine. It functionally doesn’t matter.

That being said my Military 2 while having perfect centering and no real lock stick, has 2-3mm of detente lash when shut. The blade shouldn’t move at all when closed, but this one can move up and down a bit and I’m unfortunately likely to get rid of it because of that.

That's interesting. All my Military 1's have detent lash, some more than others. My only Military 2 has absolutely none.

[vivi]

I just got a Salt Military 2 and think some people are blowing the clip landing pad situation a bit out of proportion, the line in the center is the actual landing spot and on any of the Salt models and the second you put a deep carry clip on the clip hits in a different area anyway and still works fine. It functionally doesn’t matter.

That being said my Military 2 while having perfect centering and no real lock stick, has 2-3mm of detente lash when shut. The blade shouldn’t move at all when closed, but this one can move up and down a bit and I’m unfortunately likely to get rid of it because of that.

I agree. I over-reacted to the photos myself. After using it for a few days I have no issues with the clip. It works better than the FRN Chief or FRN Police, or even the Yojumbo now that I think of it.

My Military 1 DLC has similar detent issues as your Salt but it's never posed enough of an issue for me to consider parting with it. Is your tip able to be exposed because of this?

My lock stick seems to be going away the more I use mine.

One thing I like about this Military 2 is the detent is stiffer than my other two. Reminds me of my Yojumbo detent. Much more confident carrying this one IWB than my other Military 2's.

Makes me want to get off my rear and order the parts I need to tweak detent strength. Had a discussion bookmarked on an old phone....

[vivi]

..
I guess I just don't get why the lock change is so controversial. They're both lightweight detent based locks, biggest difference is the comp lock is easier to close without putting your hand in the path of the blade.

Manix vs Manix XL was a much more drastic lock change, and that was accepted with less controversy. I think even all of us interested in a sprint C95 own multiple XL's with the cbbl, myself included.

In the end though, I was right. Even here, where the changes were considered more controversial than on other knife web forums, we're seeing a lot more military 2's in the "what's in your pocket?" thread than 1's, just as I predicted.

Given 5 more years I expect the ratio of M2 photos to M1 photos to align with the ratio of para 2 vs para 1 photos we see.

Well, then I´ll move my reply to here too..

- Again: To me it is a bit weird that on the one hand many here clearly state that for them the M2 comp.lock is a big improvement compared to the linerlock of the M1, so admit that it DOES make a real difference...
... but sometimes still ignore that this undisputed difference can also be perceived vice versa.. so for folks like me and some others here a linerlock just works better (for me in all capacities like operation, ergos, safety).
So those who feel the Millie 2 got better due to the comp.lock should understand that the change in locktype of course is controversial, cause it obviously does change things - for those who praise the Millie 2 for that change as well as for those who feel the other way round
(I want to repeat Davids example here once more: What would people say if for example PM2 or Shaman were cqi -ed to linerlock? No big deal... ?)

- The difference between liner- and comp.lock is more substantial to me than between backlock and CBBL - when it comes to operation and especially ergos . Of course completely subjective, depends on what particular features people find important.

- I am certain that the Millie 2 would be more popular than the Millie 1 anyway, so I don´t dispute this..
But "that we see more Millie 2s in the "pocket thread"" just has to be the case anyway too... I mean the Millie 2 got announced and discussed as an "improvement over" and not an "alternative to" the Millie 1 - the "2" alone suggests that this is the "better", newer version - it gets all the sprints and all the attention and hype on social media ... of course "the market" wants THAT one... add to that that the linerlock gets a bad rep anyway due to the many crappy linerlocks out there (of other brands) and often not a fair assessment of its advantages..

But, again: Creating the Millie 2 definitely was a great idea and smart move by Spyderco!
So many like it and it apparently is a real success, and I am glad that this is the case.

But just as you generally would like to see more big and more Salt knives in the Spyderco lineup instead of smaller and "corrosive" ones, I personally would like to see an a bit better balance between comp.lock and linerlock in the mid to high end range. As far as available variants go, the linerlock Millie 1 actually begins to "disappear" a bit already (don´t think we´ll ever see a Milli 1 Salt for example).

For me the difference between cbbl and lockback is much more substantial.

I'm not a huge fan of liner locks or comp locks, but to me the latter is an across the board improvement of the former (though they both have the same achilles heel - no closing bias).

comp lock is a stronger design. it can be closed without fingers in the path of the blade. for my hand it has a much less negative affect on ergonomics (I never liked how the index finger area felt on the Military 1 due to the lock cut-out).

framelocks and linerlocks are pretty much both on the bottom of my list when it comes to lock types. I'd own a lot more Resilience folders if they were a different lock.

I'd still take a lock with a closing bias over either.

[Evil D]

I guess I just don't get why the lock change is so controversial. They're both lightweight detent based locks, biggest difference is the comp lock is easier to close without putting your hand in the path of the blade.

Manix vs Manix XL was a much more drastic lock change, and that was accepted with less controversy. I think even all of us interested in a sprint C95 own multiple XL's with the cbbl, myself included.

In the end though, I was right. Even here, where the changes were considered more controversial than on other knife web forums, we're seeing a lot more military 2's in the "what's in your pocket?" thread than 1's, just as I predicted.

Given 5 more years I expect the ratio of M2 photos to M1 photos to align with the ratio of para 2 vs para 1 photos we see.

I think it says more about the Military 1 itself than other knife vs knife comparisons, it just has a very loyal following and has also remained in regular production while the original Manix is long gone. Personally I believe the Manix was already out of production before I joined the forum. I also think the lock change between the 1 and 2 was a change to a far more popular lock design, liner lock aren't nearly as popular with Spyderco fans as the CL. Being essentially a bigger Para 2 also makes it seem way more familiar than a new model usually is, I felt right at home when I first handled it and I felt more of a nostalgic feeling for what I used to love about the Para 2 than I felt from it being an updated Military.

[Chris_in_Texas]

Hello,

I received my M2 from Cutlery Shoppe and so far so good. No issues that I see or feel. Not a super big fan of the DLC, as you can tell, but had to get another steel in the mix. The Salt Magnacut and plain S30V are still on the list, and will be coming up next to join the family. Considering that I have six already in four months, not too bad.

[Chris_in_Texas]

So I measured the tips on each one and here is what I found:
S90V - 0.029
S110V - 0.030
SPY27 - 0.033
CruWear - 0.029
15V - 0.028

So they are all very close all by margins of error.

Hi Chris,

Thanks for doing the measurements.
Indeed a bit of variation, but all close.

D-Pete

Hey D-Pete,

Just to update one more... The M2 in CPM-XHP CS exclusive measures in at 0.030. That one just arrived.

[phaust]

Figured out my solution to the clip



I'm not sure why I didn't think of this earlier. I swapped the Siren the same way. I like the lighter carbon fiber with the blade I'll carry in thinner summer shorts, and the extra grip makes sense with the s90v blade that will get more and harder use. That one will be used around the house so will go without a clip.

Honestly I don't know if I can tell a weight difference here like with the Siren, but the CF and black is a sweet combo


Edit: Pic of both


One more edit~ I'm not on Chris's level, but having pulled out the three I own and having seen people care about the factory edge, the dlc s30v had the edge end closest to the ricasso and was almost perfect, second is the Salt at just a bit further away, and third was the s90v that quite noticeably ends earlier than the others. The Salt here has the factory edge, and I think the s90v does as well.