The Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight: A comprehensive review

[zuludelta]

Very interesting writeup, thank you! I have a niggle--unimportant, minor--but a niggle all the same:

“…Lil’ Temperance 3 Lightweight is a formidable 'hard use' cutting tool with virtually the same cutting edge length as the much larger and heavier Manix 2…”

Shouldn't we compare LW to LW? If so:

LT3LW: 3.8 oz
M2LW: 2.9 oz

The LT3LW is over 30% heavier than a Manix LW.

You're correct that the Manix is longer in the pocket (closed dimension 4.7") than the LT (closed dimension 4.4") but I'm not sure 0.3" qualifies the Manix as "much larger" when you factor in the LT's additional weight.

Yes, cutting edge is very similar as you say, thanks to the Manix' generous index choil. However blade length (a consideration in SD) favors the Manix, which gets its edge out there by another half inch:

LT3LW: 2.9"
M2LW: 3.4"

My read is that the Manix 2 LW is a little longer in the pocket, but lighter. Without a side-by-side, I can't really speak to the tallness of the handles, but I get the impression the LT3LW is fairly tall. (So is the Manix.)

Niggle aside, great review and an interesting knife, the LT3LW. I'm trying to decide if it's for me, and to understand why the folks on the forum like it so much. It sounds like a knife you have to hold before deciding if it's for you.

All good and fair points.

As far as the comparative "tallness" of the knives, the LT3LW is a hair under 32 mm at the widest point of the handle's palm swell while the Manix 2 is right around 30 mm. The LT3LW is less tall when closed, however, coming in at about 44 mm at its widest extent to the Manix 2's 45 mm (the blade of the LT3LW sits lower in the handle when closed). All in all, the differences in handle height & closed width between the two are quite minor.

Oh, and a couple of reasons why I didn't do a LW to LW comparison: (a) I didn't have a Manix 2 LW handy , and (b) I wanted to compare similar folders as far as "hard use"—the lack of full liners in the Manix 2 LW places it a tier below the regular Manix 2, at least as far as I know. This is based on some sort of strength rating system used internally by Spyderco which, IIRC, classed MBC-rated folders such as the P'kal, Li'l Temperance, Yojimbo, Chinook, etc. and "very hard use" folders like the Manix 2 with G10 scales and Shaman at the top (I'm not sure if they still use this ratings system). I can't recall the specifics of the rating system, but there have been multiple posts in this forum where some of its details have been discussed by Sal & others. I'd love to provide links to those posts, but it's hard to find them using the forum's search function. I can't come up with a good set of search terms & parameters to really narrow down the scope of the search so I'm not spending hours going through old threads—if anybody reading this has time to dig up those posts, feel free to share links to them in this thread.

EDIT: edited for formatting

[Bolster]

...(b) I wanted to compare similar folders as far as "hard use"—the lack of full liners in the Manix 2 LW places it a tier below the regular Manix 2...

Ah, yes, I understand. Thanks also for the "tallness" measurements! I hope Spyderco hires you to do all their knife reviews! Such precise, balanced, detailed and insightful observations you have, thanks again.

[zuludelta]

Ah, yes, I understand. Thanks also for the "tallness" measurements! I hope Spyderco hires you to do all their knife reviews! Such precise, balanced, detailed and insightful observations you have, thanks again.

Thanks man, appreciate it :) Thanks for reading the thread

[Ferruginous]

As a grip nerd, what all do you do for grip training? Big on levering and pinch griping here- less on crushing

Other than traditional work (winding a broom handle wrapped in cord with a weight on the end, etc.) I use Captains of Crush grip trainers. I got ridiculously fast results, going from the 50lb to 200+ lbs in less than a month.

IIRC Ernest Emerson used to have a deal where if you could close the 350lb-ish one in front of him at a knife show you got a free knife.

[twinboysdad]

As a grip nerd, what all do you do for grip training? Big on levering and pinch griping here- less on crushing

Other than traditional work (winding a broom handle wrapped in cord with a weight on the end, etc.) I use Captains of Crush grip trainers. I got ridiculously fast results, going from the 50lb to 200+ lbs in less than a month.

IIRC Ernest Emerson used to have a deal where if you could close the 350lb-ish one in front of him at a knife show you got a free knife.

If you can close the 350 lb CoC you could grab a knife and no one could get it back from you. I got into grip when I shook hands with a truck driver who legitimately could have injured my hand. He knew he had god level grip and kind of flexed it a lot on people, but between his hand size and grip I wasn’t getting my hand back until he let go! It was surreal. This guy would hand load 55 gallon drums of chemicals by tilting it on one side and then turning the drum like a steering wheel.

[zuludelta]

Received the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight in K390 earlier this month (purchased with my own money this time) & have been using it as my primary work knife for the past couple of weeks. Thought I'd share my thoughts on it in this thread instead of starting a new one, since everything I wrote about the VG-10 version in the initial post (& subsequent replies) still applies to this model, except with regards to the blade steel, of course.

If you already like the basic LT3LW, whether or not you will like the LT3LW in K390 enough to pay for its significantly higher retail price will mostly come down to whether or not you have a use for—or just an overwhelming interest in—the top-tier cutting performance that K390 potentially offers & don't mind that it's a non-stainless steel.

For me, the decision to get the LT3LW in K390 was a no-brainer. It combines one of my all-time favourite folder designs with my favourite high alloy non-stainless tool steel for a folding knife.

It is worth noting, however, that it is the priciest of all the Seki City K390 production folders (it costs even more than the K390 Police 4 LW). But in terms of value for what you are getting, I actually think it is better to compare the LT3LW in K390 to the Manix 2 LW in Maxamet. They have similar MAP pricing (based on my local authorized Spyderco retailers here in Canada) & with both knives, you get roughly the same amount of cutting edge, fiberglass-reinforced polymer handle scales (FRN in the LT3LW, FRCP in the Manix 2), a very strong "finger-safe" locking mechanism, robust overall construction, and class-leading high wear-resistance tool steels (having used multiple K390 and Maxamet knives extensively at work, I have to say that the former's combination of characteristics is better suited for my use context). Viewed in this light, I think the LT3LW in K390 actually offers excellent value.

[Stas]

Received the Lil' Temperance 3 Lightweight earlier this month (purchased with my own money this time) & have been using it as my primary work knife for the past couple of weeks. Thought I'd share my thoughts on it in this thread instead of starting a new one, since everything I wrote about the VG-10 version in the initial post (& subsequent replies) still applies to this model, except with regards to the blade steel, of course.
IMG_20230924_175838_509.jpg
If you already like the basic LT3LW, whether or not you will like the LT3LW in K390 enough to pay for its significantly higher retail price will mostly come down to whether or not you have a use for—or just an overwhelming interest in—the top-tier cutting performance that K390 potentially offers & don't mind that it's a non-stainless steel.

For me, the decision to get the LT3LW in K390 was a no-brainer. It combines one of my all-time favourite folder designs with my favourite high alloy non-stainless tool steel for a folding knife.

It is worth noting, however, that it is the priciest of all the Seki City K390 production folders (it costs even more than the K390 Police 4 LW). But in terms of value for what you are getting, I actually think it is better to compare the LT3LW in K390 to the Manix 2 LW in Maxamet. They have similar MAP pricing (based on my local authorized Spyderco retailers here in Canada) & with both knives, you get roughly the same amount of cutting edge, fiberglass-reinforced polymer handle scales (FRN in the LT3LW, FRCP in the Manix 2), a very strong "finger-safe" locking mechanism, robust overall construction, and class-leading high wear-resistance tool steels (having used multiple K390 and Maxamet knives extensively at work, I have to say that the former's combination of characteristics is better suited for my use context). Viewed in this light, I think the LT3LW in K390 actually offers excellent value.
IMG_20230924_175848_823.jpg

Thank you for the update! That’s a very nice lineup.
I have only G10 version. Thinking about K390 often

[p_atrick]

Man, the last post about the K390 version has me itching to buy one. Do I need it? No, but I kinda want it. Why can't I be happy with what I already have?

[cabfrank]

I want a VG-10 SE, and I don't need it either. Cool knife.

[zuludelta]

Thank you for the update! That’s a very nice lineup.
I have only G10 version. Thinking about K390 often

You're welcome! The G10 version is still a really good knife, especially when it's broken in, and if I could only have one version of the LT3, I would have no problem going with the S30V LT3 or either the PE or SE VG10 LT3LW. The K390 LT3LW is an outstanding knife, but I tend to view folders with ultra-high wear resistance, high alloy, non-stainless tool steels (K390, Cru-Wear, M4, 4V, Maxamet, 15V, etc.) as specialty cutting implements, and it's only at work (warehouse work, in my case) that I can experience the full benefit of their properties without going out of my way to create artificial circumstances that will push them to the limits of their performance potential. For more general/EDC use, I actually prefer an easier to sharpen/re-profile steel with better corrosion resistance.

Man, the last post about the K390 version has me itching to buy one. Do I need it? No, but I kinda want it. Why can't I be happy with what I already have?

I want a VG-10 SE, and I don't need it either. Cool knife.

It's a bit of a silly tactic, but one way I've found that helps me get over the compulsion to buy a new knife & renew my appreciation of what I already have is to watch or read a positive review of a similar knife that I already own. This is how I've managed to not buy a Native 5 in S90V & fluted carbon fiber despite wanting one for years now... I just queue up a positive review of the Native 5 LW in S110V & I come away thinking, "you know, I have something that is almost as good, and that is enough."

[zuludelta]

I got accidentalky doused in some corrosive liquid at work the other day (nothing toxic, thankfully, but the pH was somewhere between 3.4 and 2.5) and some of it got on my LT3LW in K390, which I was using it at the time. I rinsed the knife under running water at work, but decided to do a full teardown of the LT3LW when I got home, just to make sure I was able to get out all the corrosive residue and to check on the blade tang/pivot area (K390 is a non-stainless steel, though it offers some resistance to corrosion).

Thought I'd share my experience in this thread, for folks who've never taken apart the LT3LW before (I've also posted about my experience taking apart the original G10 LT3 in an older thread).

Disassembling the LT3LW is pretty straightforward, requiring only a T6 screwdriver for the body screws and clip screws, and a T8 for the pivot screw. There is a small steel washer/collar underneath the pivot screw, so be mindful that you don't lose it. Also, taking off the clip is only required if you want to separate the clip side liner from the FRN scale (I wanted to check the hidden side of the liner for corrosion). If you don't need to do this, you can leave the clip on.

I found a Knipex XS Pliers Wrench useful in teasing apart barrel spacers from screws and manipulating the pivot & the phosphor bronze washers. It was small enough to get a purchase in tight spaces while providing a lot of grip, and the smooth jaws did not mar surfaces.

One hiccup I encountered was the anvil pin/stop pin. It seemed to be stuck, either because the retaining screw was stripped or due to an overzealous application of thread locker at the factory. Either way, I didn't want to push my luck, and found that I could get enough separation between the show side liner & scale to clean their mating surfaces even with the anvil pin only partially unscrewed, so it was a non-issue in the end.

After cleaning & wiping down all the internal metal surfaces & applying lubrication where it was needed, I reassembled the LT3LW & the process was just as straightforward as taking it apart. (Just be mindful of the D-shaped holes for the body screws & pivot)

One thing to keep in mind, the LT3LW doesn't use the pivot bushing system used in newer production Compression Lock folders like the Para 3 LW, the CQI Kapara, and more recent production batches of the PM2. What this means is it will take some trial-and-error and dialing down of the pivot tightness for the action to get to the point that one prefers. Also worth noting: the blade was centered pretty much as soon as I put it together, and didn't need any additional fiddling. I noticed a minor amount of lockstick that wasn't there before, but after flicking the knife open & closed about a half-dozen times, that went away.

All in all, a pretty painless process, though it's not something I plan on doing regularly, and I'll probably do this again only if I get the knife doused in a corrosive liquid (which is hopefully never). In my experience, compressed air and pipe cleaners are enough to keep a folder's internals clean, unless one is working in exceptionally grubby conditions.

[SpeedHoles]

Nice update.
Missed this thread in the past. Coincidentally have one of these in the mail, hopefully arriving any day.

Have the G10 version already, so was happy to add the K390 to the rotation also.

[cabfrank]

You definitely were a big influence in getting me to buy a knife that is different in philosophy from most Spydercos with regard to weight and blade thickness. I'm surprised at how mich I love this knife, as I've said too many times now. I think the build quality and stoutness (****-for-stout was used in the official description) are top notch.

[Vamais]

I am also surprised at how much I love this model. The ergonomics are fantastic for heavy cutting. I'm developing good muscle memory with it, and it's just getting sweeter as it finally breaks in. I love how I can hold the knife securely in all sorts of ways depending on what/how I'm cutting.

[cabfrank]

Yep, sal said he designed it for at least four martial arts grips, and others work too. It is a very practical and durable tool.

[Vamais]

Yep, sal said he designed it for at least four martial arts grips, and others work too.

Very true. I was referring to holding the knife for more utilitarian tasks though. Thought I'd take this opportunity to photograph what I mean. Pictures were taken somewhat awkwardly one-handed, so my wrist is bent a little odd in some of the shots, FYI. And to make this information more useful, I've also included a picture of my hand on a 1" square grid.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/PrJvrgJ

[Vamais]

Here are pictures of how the LT3LW stands on flat surfaces.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/SJGkV1Z

[Vamais]

And here are some pictures detailing one way to close the knife (in addition to all the regular compression lock closing methods). It's like a Spydieflick, but for closing the knife. Works really well, and the blade doesn't need to be drop-shut free swinging. I put a bit of pressure on the spine with my index finger, then release the lock bar with my middle finger. It will usually close all the way, but if I do it a little weakly (or too strong and the blade bounces back out of the detent), I just reach over with my thumb to positively finish the closing.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/cfYhjv8

This can also be done slowly if more blade control or less noise is desired.

[Vamais]

One thing I really like is how easy it is to cut lengths of cordage with this knife. I can hold the handle very securely with just my fingers, which allows me to use my thumb to hold the cordage against the side of the blade. I then twist the edge towards me/into the cordage and draw it a bit if necessary. I can easily reset to quickly cut as many lengths as I need.

[Vamais]

It's also good at draw cuts (I'm not entirely sure that's the right terminology). Fine control and power.