Sal - YOU are not listening to us

[Wartstein]

My just finish brass Maxamet PM2 w/ forced patina and the copper DOC Blade HQ exclusive. The forced patina came out pretty good.

...

Nothing I personally would carry (too heavy, slick and cold in wintertime) but a real beauty!

[bobnikon]

I am not too worried about the marks on the knife.

TURFP The reason I carry tip up is because I don't want a sharp pointy thing opening towards my junk in my pocket. So I prefer the blade riding against a seam (typically on the hip side, as the inside seam on the pocket interferes with sitting... at least for a fat guy). I am strongly right hand dominant, so prefer right side carry.

TDRBP I have leather furniture, so prefer not to sit on my clip and get **** for marking up the furniture.

TD I also prefer the clip lower on the knife so it isn't in the working part of my hand if doing anything more than slicing paper or tape.

TDRFP-2 I suppose I could carry tip-down with the clip on the left side of the knife but in the right pocket. Haven't tried that, but it would cause more shifting in the hand to open, and the clip is on the working fingers then.

TDLFP Alternately I could carry tip down left pocket and cross draw. That could be interesting... I may have to try it.

But yeah, my strong pref so far is TURFP.

[rwasham]

Is it annoying when knives are still made/come from the factory tip down? Sure...Should a nice knife from the factory come with a mared finish? No...Do I care enough to not buy some of my favorite knives? Not at all!!!

[bdblue]

Is it annoying when knives are still made/come from the factory tip down?

I happen to prefer tip down. I buy my knives for function and larger knives function better tip down, and Spyderco repeatedly states that they make their knives for function. I've carried knives smaller than 3" and for me they work reasonably well either way. A knife the size of the military- it would take 3 minutes to draw and open that one if it was tip up. I noticed that a lot of people like tip up so I did some study to determine how they operate them. I found one guy posting videos showing how he deploys his knife, he was wearing pajamas. First, I don't carry a knife when wearing pajamas, and second when I need to use a knife I'm typically wearing jeans. With loose pajamas yes you can stick your hand down in your pocket and grab the pivot end of a long knife so your thumb is in the right place to open it, but it won't work that way when wearing jeans, certainly not with my jeans. I have long fingers but with a knife the size of the Manix 2 no matter how I draw it my thumb is still at least an inch away from the thumb hole. With a tip down knife my thumb is right where it needs to be. I still buy and carry knives that are tip up, and I've learned some gymnastic tricks to make them work for me. I think I own more that are tip up than tip down, but no matter how much I carry them and use them they are not as smooth and quick as tip down.

There are other reasons for tip up- you don't like the feel of the clip in your hand, you want to use a lanyard, you want double safety by carrying the blade against the edge of your pocket. And for sure if you have an older design that has very little blade detent then you need additional safety. I have a few of those and they can definitely open in your pocket. Maybe these reasons override function and I can understand that. But there are still a few of us who value function.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

Is it annoying when knives are still made/come from the factory tip down?

I happen to prefer tip down. I buy my knives for function and larger knives function better tip down, and Spyderco repeatedly states that they make their knives for function. I've carried knives smaller than 3" and for me they work reasonably well either way. A knife the size of the military- it would take 3 minutes to draw and open that one if it was tip up. I noticed that a lot of people like tip up so I did some study to determine how they operate them. I found one guy posting videos showing how he deploys his knife, he was wearing pajamas. First, I don't carry a knife when wearing pajamas, and second when I need to use a knife I'm typically wearing jeans. With loose pajamas yes you can stick your hand down in your pocket and grab the pivot end of a long knife so your thumb is in the right place to open it, but it won't work that way when wearing jeans, certainly not with my jeans. I have long fingers but with a knife the size of the Manix 2 no matter how I draw it my thumb is still at least an inch away from the thumb hole. With a tip down knife my thumb is right where it needs to be. I still buy and carry knives that are tip up, and I've learned some gymnastic tricks to make them work for me. I think I own more that are tip up than tip down, but no matter how much I carry them and use them they are not as smooth and quick as tip down.

There are other reasons for tip up- you don't like the feel of the clip in your hand, you want to use a lanyard, you want double safety by carrying the blade against the edge of your pocket. And for sure if you have an older design that has very little blade detent then you need additional safety. I have a few of those and they can definitely open in your pocket. Maybe these reasons override function and I can understand that. But there are still a few of us who value function.

I 100% get it. My brother is a hardcore a tip down fan.

Sucks the Manix 2 can’t be tip down for ya. I hear Eric likes that position best, but I guess he liked the ball bearing lock more when he designed it?

I LOVE my brown m390 Manix 2. It’s broken in to where it feels like an axis lock. Great knife.

[RamZar]

Good article with advise by Michael Janich: Tip-Up or Tip-Down Carry? Self-Defense Expert Weighs in. Both of Janich’s designs, Yojimbo and Yojumbo, come in Tip-Up Right-Hand configuration from Spyderco. Janich says: “You really have to look at all the variables because there is no one-size-fits-all solution.”

[Wartstein]

Is it annoying when knives are still made/come from the factory tip down?

I happen to prefer tip down. I buy my knives for function and larger knives function better tip down, and Spyderco repeatedly states that they make their knives for function. I've carried knives smaller than 3" and for me they work reasonably well either way. A knife the size of the military- it would take 3 minutes to draw and open that one if it was tip up. I noticed that a lot of people like tip up so I did some study to determine how they operate them. I found one guy posting videos showing how he deploys his knife, he was wearing pajamas. First, I don't carry a knife when wearing pajamas, and second when I need to use a knife I'm typically wearing jeans. With loose pajamas yes you can stick your hand down in your pocket and grab the pivot end of a long knife so your thumb is in the right place to open it, but it won't work that way when wearing jeans, certainly not with my jeans. I have long fingers but with a knife the size of the Manix 2 no matter how I draw it my thumb is still at least an inch away from the thumb hole. With a tip down knife my thumb is right where it needs to be. I still buy and carry knives that are tip up, and I've learned some gymnastic tricks to make them work for me. I think I own more that are tip up than tip down, but no matter how much I carry them and use them they are not as smooth and quick as tip down.

....

I think it depends on technique used and hand size (mine are L to XL)... I prefer tip up on ALL folders I´ve tried so far, can draw and deploy my Enduras (pretty long) faster and more convenient when carried tip UP, and this would be true also for the Millie (I once mounted the clip provisionally in the lanyard hole) - not "3 minutes" to draw and open at all.

But, tbh: One reason why I just don´t really get why people want deep carry clips on longer, "tip up" folders (exept they want or have to conceil the knife of course!) is that then the knife is actually even "longer" in pocket, and the opening hole even further away from the finger when drawing the knife...

[bobnikon]

Is it annoying when knives are still made/come from the factory tip down?

I happen to prefer tip down. I buy my knives for function and larger knives function better tip down, and Spyderco repeatedly states that they make their knives for function. I've carried knives smaller than 3" and for me they work reasonably well either way. A knife the size of the military- it would take 3 minutes to draw and open that one if it was tip up. I noticed that a lot of people like tip up so I did some study to determine how they operate them. I found one guy posting videos showing how he deploys his knife, he was wearing pajamas. First, I don't carry a knife when wearing pajamas, and second when I need to use a knife I'm typically wearing jeans. With loose pajamas yes you can stick your hand down in your pocket and grab the pivot end of a long knife so your thumb is in the right place to open it, but it won't work that way when wearing jeans, certainly not with my jeans. I have long fingers but with a knife the size of the Manix 2 no matter how I draw it my thumb is still at least an inch away from the thumb hole. With a tip down knife my thumb is right where it needs to be. I still buy and carry knives that are tip up, and I've learned some gymnastic tricks to make them work for me. I think I own more that are tip up than tip down, but no matter how much I carry them and use them they are not as smooth and quick as tip down.

There are other reasons for tip up- you don't like the feel of the clip in your hand, you want to use a lanyard, you want double safety by carrying the blade against the edge of your pocket. And for sure if you have an older design that has very little blade detent then you need additional safety. I have a few of those and they can definitely open in your pocket. Maybe these reasons override function and I can understand that. But there are still a few of us who value function.

Don't wear skin tight jeans.

Problem solved.

[soc_monki]

Is it annoying when knives are still made/come from the factory tip down?

I happen to prefer tip down. I buy my knives for function and larger knives function better tip down, and Spyderco repeatedly states that they make their knives for function. I've carried knives smaller than 3" and for me they work reasonably well either way. A knife the size of the military- it would take 3 minutes to draw and open that one if it was tip up. I noticed that a lot of people like tip up so I did some study to determine how they operate them. I found one guy posting videos showing how he deploys his knife, he was wearing pajamas. First, I don't carry a knife when wearing pajamas, and second when I need to use a knife I'm typically wearing jeans. With loose pajamas yes you can stick your hand down in your pocket and grab the pivot end of a long knife so your thumb is in the right place to open it, but it won't work that way when wearing jeans, certainly not with my jeans. I have long fingers but with a knife the size of the Manix 2 no matter how I draw it my thumb is still at least an inch away from the thumb hole. With a tip down knife my thumb is right where it needs to be. I still buy and carry knives that are tip up, and I've learned some gymnastic tricks to make them work for me. I think I own more that are tip up than tip down, but no matter how much I carry them and use them they are not as smooth and quick as tip down.

There are other reasons for tip up- you don't like the feel of the clip in your hand, you want to use a lanyard, you want double safety by carrying the blade against the edge of your pocket. And for sure if you have an older design that has very little blade detent then you need additional safety. I have a few of those and they can definitely open in your pocket. Maybe these reasons override function and I can understand that. But there are still a few of us who value function.

Why would it take 3 minutes to open a military if it was tip up? I can draw and open my Resilience or Native Chief in a split second, both are tip up, both are in the military size range. Or, a Benchmade Contego or Crooked River, also in the 4" size range.

If it takes you 3 minutes to pull and open any knife, you are probably using a Buck 110 and it turned itself sideways in your pocket...

[Matus]

The second most overstated thing by most men is how long it takes to open a pocket knife that is not in their preferred configuration ...

[Perhaps_OCD?]

The second most overstated thing by most men is how long it takes to open a pocket knife that is not in their preferred configuration ...

Yeah, I’m pretty sure I’m equally fast, or near as makes no difference, if I concentrate.

My preference for tip up is consistency with most my other knives, and not having a hardened steel blade with a massive spydie hole hump sticking into the area where I put my phone, sometimes wallet, and then my hand to grab stuff. I’d rather smooth g10 towards the items in my pocket, and the hard steel blade against the rear fabric of my pants where it’s out of the way.

I carried a liner lock Benchmade tip down for 6 years before I really got into knives. Wasn’t a deal breaker but it’s blade didn’t stick out like a Spyderco and I was a noob (hence the liner lock Benchmade haha).

[ykspydiefan]

It's all tips up and no Tanto blades for me. I'm really stuck on Drop Points or other typical shapes for processing animals and whittling wiener sticks.

[Naperville]

The second most overstated thing by most men is how long it takes to open a pocket knife that is not in their preferred configuration ...

When you're being assaulted every millisecond counts.

I think in one of Michael Janich's DVDs he covers tip-up carry, and having studied a little of Escrima and Arnis, I'll always carry a fixed blade or tip-up.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

The second most overstated thing by most men is how long it takes to open a pocket knife that is not in their preferred configuration ...

When you're being assaulted every millisecond counts.

I think in one of Michael Janich's DVDs he covers tip-up carry, and having studied a little of Escrima and Arnis, I'll always carry a fixed blade or tip-up.

There’s also a retention aspect I believe as well. I want as much of my hand on my gun when I draw it and same with my knife. I could be doing something wrong, but I feel like I have to reposition the knife a lot more when it’s tip down. Doesn’t matter sitting at my desk opening an Amazon package, but (as I’m sure you know based on your posts) under stress fine motor skills go to ****, the less repositioning required the better.

This is something my Force Recon best buddy has drilled into my head. I don’t use slide releases anymore after he explained this as the reason they, Seals, and Delta unanimously do not.

There’s also the whole crossover you touched on between pulling a knife from a sheath and pulling a knife tip up. The handle is in the same position, and opened the blade will be too.

[SpydieFlicker]

There’s also a retention aspect I believe as well. I want as much of my hand on my gun when I draw it and same with my knife. I could be doing something wrong, but I feel like I have to reposition the knife a lot more when it’s tip down. Doesn’t matter sitting at my desk opening an Amazon package, but (as I’m sure you know based on your posts) under stress fine motor skills go to ****, the less repositioning required the better.

This is something my Force Recon best buddy has drilled into my head. I don’t use slide releases anymore after he explained this as the reason they, Seals, and Delta unanimously do not.

There’s also the whole crossover you touched on between pulling a knife from a sheath and pulling a knife tip up. The handle is in the same position, and opened the blade will be too.

What do you mean by slide release? Like a slide on a pistol? If it is so, Why not use the slide?

[Perhaps_OCD?]

There’s also a retention aspect I believe as well. I want as much of my hand on my gun when I draw it and same with my knife. I could be doing something wrong, but I feel like I have to reposition the knife a lot more when it’s tip down. Doesn’t matter sitting at my desk opening an Amazon package, but (as I’m sure you know based on your posts) under stress fine motor skills go to ****, the less repositioning required the better.

This is something my Force Recon best buddy has drilled into my head. I don’t use slide releases anymore after he explained this as the reason they, Seals, and Delta unanimously do not.

There’s also the whole crossover you touched on between pulling a knife from a sheath and pulling a knife tip up. The handle is in the same position, and opened the blade will be too.

What do you mean by slide release? Like a slide on a pistol? If it is so, Why not use the slide?

Yeah, I’m saying using the slide of pistol on reloads / racking it is better than using a slide release because it takes less fine motor skills; which become important under stress.

The fundamentals behind that can be applied to things like knives. For me at least, grabbing a knife carried tip up allows me to simply shove my hand in my pocket and grab it and the knife is in pretty much the position I’d hold it when open to cut. Tip down I have to sort of pluck it out then rotate the knife to where it needs to be in my hand. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s why you see the defense experts favor tip up. I’m no knife defense expert tho, just speculating. I prefer guns, but I’m fortunate to have that choice where I live.

[bdblue]

Don't wear skin tight jeans.

I buy bigger jeans but my metabolism figures it out and then I'm back to where I started. I'm 6'-4" and 220#.

Why would it take 3 minutes to open a military if it was tip up? I can draw and open my Resilience or Native Chief in a split second, both are tip up, both are in the military size range.

Grab the knife, pull it out of your pocket, measure how far your thumb is from the opening hole, get a stopwatch and find out how long it takes to inch your hand down the blade to the opening hole. I've tried holding a Military in my pocket where it would be if tip up then I put my thumb in the pocket and pull the knife out. I have long fingers but my finger is about 2" away from the opening hole. That's why I can do tip up with a tiny knife, my thumb can reach the opening hole even if it's down in my pocket. Maybe there are people here with hands that can palm a large beach ball such that their thumbs can reach all the way to the bottom of their pockets. I have long fingers but not that long.

There’s also a retention aspect I believe as well. I want as much of my hand on my gun when I draw it and same with my knife.

The largest tip up knife I carry is the Manix 2. The best I can do when I draw it is to have my thumb about 1" from the opening hole. My method is to let go of the knife, move my hand down quickly so my hand moves faster than the knife falls, and grab the knife with my thumb in the right position. This is pretty quick but go back and read
the part about letting go of the knife and letting it fall. This sounds a bit contrary to good retention. With tip down I always have firm grip on the knife.

[Naperville]

This is a video of Escrimador Michael Janich speaking about tip-up carry. This video sums up my position, and the position of self defense advocates employing folders.

https://youtu.be/X3JKQixeLao

[Jared]

The second most overstated thing by most men is how long it takes to open a pocket knife that is not in their preferred configuration ...

When you're being assaulted every millisecond counts.

I think in one of Michael Janich's DVDs he covers tip-up carry, and having studied a little of Escrima and Arnis, I'll always carry a fixed blade or tip-up.

There’s also a retention aspect I believe as well. I want as much of my hand on my gun when I draw it and same with my knife. I could be doing something wrong, but I feel like I have to reposition the knife a lot more when it’s tip down. Doesn’t matter sitting at my desk opening an Amazon package, but (as I’m sure you know based on your posts) under stress fine motor skills go to ****, the less repositioning required the better.

This is something my Force Recon best buddy has drilled into my head. I don’t use slide releases anymore after he explained this as the reason they, Seals, and Delta unanimously do not.

There’s also the whole crossover you touched on between pulling a knife from a sheath and pulling a knife tip up. The handle is in the same position, and opened the blade will be too.

If you have no fine motor skills under stress, how do you expect to isolate the trigger finger from the other fingers on your hand when needing to shoot? That is most certainly a fine motor skill, and squeezing all fingers sympathetically is a known cause of lousy accuracy when firing a handgun

[dkelley661]

I have yet had the need to pull a gun or even "god forbid" pull my knife out in a time of stress, but my wallet is another story. I raised three daughters and have one heck of a hot wife, so my experience luckily has been how I carried my wallet. I found fold up back pocket was the most useful position while retrieving under stressful circumstances.