Has the love affair with ZDP-189 ended?

[vilePossum]

Actually recent interactions with s110v and s90v haveade me appreciate zdp more.
I do use diamond stones and finish on ceramic or strop if necessary and for me s110v etc just don't work as well as vg10, m4 or even k390... Not sure what it is. Those other steels just seem to take a keener edge though all of them will cut decently.
And zdp is in that keen edge category as well. So I might end up getting some more zdp blades... Again.

[anagarika]

Actually recent interactions with s110v and s90v haveade me appreciate zdp more.
I do use diamond stones and finish on ceramic or strop if necessary and for me s110v etc just don't work as well as vg10, m4 or even k390... Not sure what it is. Those other steels just seem to take a keener edge though all of them will cut decently.
And zdp is in that keen edge category as well. So I might end up getting some more zdp blades... Again.

Similar experience. I can’t get my S110V to the level my VG10 or ZDP are. Probably cause I don’t have finer diamond stone than DMT EEF.
Admittedly I had problem with VG10 initially but worked it out, none with ZDP. But S110V is indeed a different animal. It cuts well, just not at the level of keenness like ZDP or VG10.

[vilePossum]

Similar experience. I can’t get my S110V to the level my VG10 or ZDP are. Probably cause I don’t have finer diamond stone than DMT EEF.

Same here... DMT EEF is the end of the line as far as diamonds go. Got some stropping compound and ceramic but they just don't produce the same results on those steels.

[GarageBoy]

ZDP is in a class if its own. It doesn't really behave like any other steel I've used.

So does it perform "better" left coarse, or run it til it's mirror polished? I've heard that since it's fine grained, it's ok to polish, but it'll chip when too thin?

[Evil D]

ZDP is in a class if its own. It doesn't really behave like any other steel I've used.

So does it perform "better" left coarse, or run it til it's mirror polished? I've heard that since it's fine grained, it's ok to polish, but it'll chip when too thin?

I've really never used it with a course edge, I've always polished it. I only have a Ladybug with it now and I keep it mirror polished, the most course it sees are the Sharpmaker rods but I finish on ultra fine.

[dreadpirate]

When did it start :rolleyes: ?

about 10 years before you joined the forum

And I would say it's not catching on with relative newcomers then. Seriously though - yes, definitely a super steel. Just a super pain to sharpen and can chip. If you enjoy sharpening (I don't) and are reasonably careful with your knife - then I guess it's a good choice. For me there are better choices.

After reading this thread I may reconsider my position.

[Evil D]

When did it start :rolleyes: ?

about 10 years before you joined the forum

And I would say it's not catching on with relative newcomers then. Seriously though - yes, definitely a super steel. Just a super pain to sharpen and can chip. If you enjoy sharpening (I don't) and are reasonably careful with your knife - then I guess it's a good choice. For me there are better choices.

After reading this thread I may reconsider my position.

I'm certainly not saying it's the most amazing steel out there, but if you look at this hobby from that perspective you're going to find a lot of disappointment. I think Sal's mentality of "all good, just different" is a very healthy way of looking at steel choices. I wouldn't want ZDP in every knife I own, but there are several Japanese Spyderco's I would LOVE to see come out in a ZDP version. It is still one of the best steels Japan has to offer.

[vivi]

ZDP is in a class if its own. It doesn't really behave like any other steel I've used.

So does it perform "better" left coarse, or run it til it's mirror polished? I've heard that since it's fine grained, it's ok to polish, but it'll chip when too thin?

It will chip when it's too thin, but how thin too thin is would surprise you.

On my desktop I have some photos, but I took multiple ZDP189 knives down to really thin angles and tested them. Converted a ZDP189 saber ground Endura to scandi grind and it held up to chopping and batoning. Took a Caly JR in ZDP189 down lower and lower until it chipped aggressively carving knotted woods. It was extremely thin, something like 6 degrees per side I think. Even at 10 degrees per side with no microbevel I had no issues carving hard woods with that Caly. I'll try to post pictures of it later.

I wouldn't want ZDP in every knife I own, but there are several Japanese Spyderco's I would LOVE to see come out in a ZDP version. It is still one of the best steels Japan has to offer.

I agree. There was talk of a ZDP189 Police 3 sprint back in the day...I'd still be interested in a ZDP189 Police 4.

[JD Spydo]

Actually recent interactions with s110v and s90v haveade me appreciate zdp more.
I do use diamond stones and finish on ceramic or strop if necessary and for me s110v etc just don't work as well as vg10, m4 or even k390... Not sure what it is. Those other steels just seem to take a keener edge though all of them will cut decently.
And zdp is in that keen edge category as well. So I might end up getting some more zdp blades... Again.

That's really interesting but yet somewhat confusing "vilePossum">> and I believe everything you're saying but I'm scratching my head confused. I'm wondering if it isn't just the type of abrasive and/or sharpening tool you're using? Because every one of those steels you're listing I have a user knife with those blades steels and I'm able to get all of them literally straight razor sharp. Now I've found that ZDP-189 really responds very well to Spyderco's Ultra-Fine stones and I most of the time use the Spyderco 302 Benchstone on my ZDP blades.

Just yesterday I got one of my 110V blades just scary, laser sharp on a Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker>> now I did use the Ultra-Fine stone for the 204 unit but not like I usually do on a ZDP-189 blade.

I also get all my VG-10 blades screaming sharp on both the 302 Benchstones and 204 Sharpmaker>> Now VG-10's razor sharp edge doesn't last as long as a 110V or ZDP blade does but it doesn't take that long to tune up the edge on a VG-10 blade and sometimes all I use is the fine stone.

Now I have found that some blade steels seem to respond to diamond tools better and I think ZDP seems to do well whenever I use diamond sharpening tools on it. Even my M390 Military responds very well to any of my Spyderco Ultra-fine stones>> it holds an edge so well that most of the time that's all I use on M390. I bet if you just practice and view Spyderco's 204 Sharpmaker video you would probably remedy your problem easily.

[Bloke]

So does it perform "better" left coarse, or run it til it's mirror polished? I've heard that since it's fine grained, it's ok to polish, but it'll chip when too thin?

I don't polish anything and I've never used diamonds on ZDP. :rolleyes:

I have no reason to doubt the members who suggest you'll get better value from a polished edge but can only speak from my own experience. :)

The last time I sharpened my ZDP Stretch which wasn't really blunt to begin with I used a 600grit SiC for a few strokes on an existing 28-30deg bevel and the knife was sharp. I then lightly stropped with chrome oxide on stiff leather and the same on clean leather and I was a little surprised that a section of the blade near the tip freely whittled free hanging hair. :eek:

[vilePossum]

Actually recent interactions with s110v and s90v haveade me appreciate zdp more.
I do use diamond stones and finish on ceramic or strop if necessary and for me s110v etc just don't work as well as vg10, m4 or even k390... Not sure what it is. Those other steels just seem to take a keener edge though all of them will cut decently.
And zdp is in that keen edge category as well. So I might end up getting some more zdp blades... Again.

That's really interesting but yet somewhat confusing "vilePossum">> and I believe everything you're saying but I'm scratching my head confused. I'm wondering if it isn't just the type of abrasive and/or sharpening tool you're using? Because every one of those steels you're listing I have a user knife with those blades steels and I'm able to get all of them literally straight razor sharp. Now I've found that ZDP-189 really responds very well to Spyderco's Ultra-Fine stones and I most of the time use the Spyderco 302 Benchstone on my ZDP blades.

Just yesterday I got one of my 110V blades just scary, laser sharp on a Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker>> now I did use the Ultra-Fine stone for the 204 unit but not like I usually do on a ZDP-189 blade.

I also get all my VG-10 blades screaming sharp on both the 302 Benchstones and 204 Sharpmaker>> Now VG-10's razor sharp edge doesn't last as long as a 110V or ZDP blade does but it doesn't take that long to tune up the edge on a VG-10 blade and sometimes all I use is the fine stone.

Now I have found that some blade steels seem to respond to diamond tools better and I think ZDP seems to do well whenever I use diamond sharpening tools on it. Even my M390 Military responds very well to any of my Spyderco Ultra-fine stones>> it holds an edge so well that most of the time that's all I use on M390. I bet if you just practice and view Spyderco's 204 Sharpmaker video you would probably remedy your problem easily.

Hey JD, thanks for that thorough reply.
I won't put it beyond me that it is the lack of skill of the sharpener or the sharpening media used wrongly.
I am using the sharpmaker and have all the rods and a 3d printed edge pro apex version with the dmt hones.

VG10 gets crazy sharp with my sharpening routine as did zdp (I don't currently own any blade in zdp, bad case of catch and release), m4 as well.
S110v gets sharp alright, shaves hair off my arms, but is a bit scratchy.
Maybe I am just not taking enough time on each grit with the s110v.

Anyways, something I wanted to ask, is the corrosion resistance of zdp higher than m4? I know it takes patina, but what about actual corrosion?

[Evil D]

I've never had ZDP patina and I've done all kinds of food prep with my old ZDP Delica. I have had my Ladybug spot rust from being carried on my keys. I'd say it's more corrosion resistant than M4 if only because it hasn't taken a patina at all for me. Both are reasonably decent at resisting it with a little care.

Strangely enough, ZDP is much easier for me to sharpen these days than S110V, and I can get it very sharp much easier. Given my history with ZDP it may just be that I know what it likes, but aside from being a hard steel I really don't find it hard to sharpen anymore. If you follow the rules I don't think it's any more difficult to sharpen than M4.

[anagarika]

JD,

I can get S110V sharp & cut well. However it cannot get to the same level of sharpness as VG10 or ZDP, which I use then to shave. The trickiest part is the hair below nose.

I had issue with VG10 but finally managed to resolve it. ZDP was easier actually, never have problem. My stones are DMT C, F, EF up to EEF and Spyderco UF rod. I sharpen free hand, so that’s probably the issue I have. From past experience I think it’s my ability & I haven’t resolve S110V yet.

After reading long discussion over BF on ceramics not doing well for Vanadium carbides, I don’t strop or use UF on my S110V anymore.

Slightly OT, but my newly arrived VG10 Endura has patina from peeling & cutting 2 mangoes! :eek:

[jmarsh667]

What do you guy's think about ZDP-189 and holding it's razor edge? Better than most of the high vanadium steels?

[xceptnl]

What do you guy's think about ZDP-189 and holding it's razor edge? Better than most of the high vanadium steels?

I have found that ZDP holds that razor edge longer than most other production steels including S110V. It doesn't maintain a working edge as long in my uses though

[TriggerThumb]

Daily carry manix s110v and ladybug zdp 189 and use them both quite a bit. I love them, and I plan to buy everything I can in both these steels in case they discontinue them. It's so weird people have a hard time with them. I would think an occasional touch up with diamonds or ceramic wouldn't be asking the world. But it may just be the death of these miracle steels in many people's minds and, ultimately the death of their sales. Sad

[Canazes9]

What do you guy's think about ZDP-189 and holding it's razor edge? Better than most of the high vanadium steels?

I have found that ZDP holds that razor edge longer than most other production steels including S110V. It doesn't maintain a working edge as long in my uses though

This!

I'll add that while neither are all that difficult, it's easier to get and return ZDP 189 to that screaming level of sharpness than S110V.

I have strayed several times for different knives and steels, my ZDP 189 Endura continues to be my most carried folder.

David

[TriggerThumb]

After reading long discussion over BF on ceramics not doing well for Vanadium carbides, I don’t strop or use UF on my S110V anymore.

Do you happen to have a link for this? Sounds like an informative read. I imagine e it has to do with keeping those nice carbide for that "buzzsaw" type cut I love from both of these steels?

[Bloke]

I don't think you can truly compare the two and I'd humbly suggest that the vast majority of people that don't like ZDP-189 or S110V are the ones with limited sharpening skills or equipment. :rolleyes:

[Jazz]

I'm carrying this tomorrow...