Why Did The Jumpers Fail?

[Soban]

got my k390 jumper last night. so far I love everything about it other than an unbroken in action/backlock which im hoping will become more one hand friendly in the future.

in large hands i cant really feel anything bad about the ergoa and the blade size and shape is exactly what I was looking for. it should make a fantastic edc and at the sub 100 price right now maybe even a "beater".

[SchoonerBum]

I’m sad to see the jumpers go, but I’m encouraged that the Caribbean is still around and I’m hoping there is still a backlock Caribbean in the pipeline somewhere.

[Fastidiotus]

I’m sad to see the jumpers go, but I’m encouraged that the Caribbean is still around and I’m hoping there is still a backlock Caribbean in the pipeline somewhere.

With the way the serrated versions got discontinued for 23 I've been tentatively nervous when the 24 and 25 list came out that the Caribbean would be disco'd all together. The Caribbean for me is the Better PM2 just like the Jumpers were the Better Delica but apparently I'm not the with majority on these ones.

[Wartstein]

With the way the serrated versions got discontinued for 23 I've been tentatively nervous when the 24 and 25 list came out that the Caribbean would be disco'd all together. The Caribbean for me is the Better PM2 just like the Jumpers were the Better Delica but apparently I'm not the with majority on these ones.

The Caribbean SE got discontinued?? Must have forgotten or missed that in the first place... really sad, since I believe those who say (first and foremost David / Evil D) that is featured one of the "best" serrations on any Spyderco (of course it is still subjective how people prefer serrations to be done, but I am talking about those "mellow", "un-snaggy" ones)

/ Anyway: I never got a Caribbean, cause I am not really a comp.lock guy (and prefer FRN if I can have it over G10), so I still so hope for that "backlock Caribbean" a Leafjumper XL / Sequoia should be... and that at least in the beginning it would come out also in an SE version. I´d most likely get one and immediately a second one as a backup.

[Wartstein]

I’m sad to see the jumpers go, but I’m encouraged that the Caribbean is still around and I’m hoping there is still a backlock Caribbean in the pipeline somewhere.

This, as said in my post above... and ideally more along the lines of the Leafjumper than the Caribbean, in that I´d hope a "backlock Caribbean" would come with the 3mm blade stock of the Seki knives rather than the 3.5 of the Caribbean and in FRN instead of G10.
And I still believe that if they ever bring out a Leafjumper XL it would have a better chance if they made that FRN linerless and the model a true and brandnew Seki Salt knife.

[JoviAl]

I used one of my Rockjumper SE’s at work this afternoon. I don’t think I realised before reading this thread that it was intended to be used by climbers, although I have a very vague memory of talking about climbing and knives at some point (and my memory is truly terrible at times, so please forgive me if I’ve said this before!).

As an avid and very active rock climber if I was wanting a knife I’d want five key features -

1- it to be very light and unobtrusive.
2- a steel and design that can be forgotten about and bashed about/gotten wet/sweaty on a harness without imploding with corrosion.
3- have some way of attaching it to a harness, be it a carabiner sized hole, a built in carabiner or something else.
4- incorporates a marlin spike for untying knots when enduring mega forearm pump
5- has a very strong self close bias, or a two step opening (a cam shaped pivot?)

Currently I keep a SE H1 Dragonfly on a bit of tech cord on the back of my harness (and use a combination of colourful language and smashing knots against the rock face to untie really unfriendly knots).

[Bolster]

IMO the Bodacious is a handle-forward design "done right":



Photo from Budda's Delivered thread.

[Mushroom]

IMO the Bodacious is a handle-forward design "done right":



Photo from Budda's Delivered thread.

Keep in mind that "handle forward" designs are not new, in general. What Sal was specifically trying to accomplish with the "Jumper" series was a handle forward backlock. The challenge was to create a handle forward backlock design that can still be safely closed using the closing method of pressing the lock and dropping the kick onto the forefinger. Beyond that it's really not a novel concept and even Spyderco has made them for a long time.

[Wallach]

Just got my Leafjumper K390 in from the KnifeCenter sale tonight. Some initial impressions:

- Fit and finish seems quite good overall. Lock bar lines up perfectly with the blade tang, knife is actually dead centered (which doesn't seem that common anymore for the LW models, even with liners), and the action is good out of the box. Main flaw I see at first glance is the sharpening was not well done on this one; the whole edge is mostly still a very visible burr. Not ideal, but I'd rather that kind of QC issue than something that is hard for me to fix myself.

- Handle ergos are actually pretty good on first grip. I think I prefer it so far to my Endela, because my middle finger sometimes naturally lands directly on that extra ridge rather than on either side of it and I am forced to adjust my grip. Here there is just a smooth swell that feels more natural to me. I especially like how agile the blade feels, due to being up in the typical choil grip area right behind the edge.

- You do have to get your thumb a bit further back to unlock the back lock compared to something like a Native 5 or even a Chief, which makes it feel slightly less comfortable to unlock than any of the other Spyderco back locks I've handled. Comparing them to those knives directly, the lock bar "button" is definitely deeper on the Leafjumper and feels like it needs to be pressed further / harder. Not actually a big issue, only noticeable really because Spyderco's other back locks are top tier, I think. It makes the lack of Boye dent a bit more obvious relative to my Endela for sure.

- There is significantly less tension force on this one than on any of my other Spyderco back locks. Not as notable on the deploy, but when closing the blade, once you reach that point where a back lock usually snaps shut, this one does so somewhat limply. Not sure why that would be, and could just be my particular example.

- Not sure how I feel about the lack of jimping on the thumb ramp. It seems mostly fine thanks to how steep the angle is there, but I think I still would have preferred to have it.

- I quite like the blade shape. Reminscent of a Native 5 with a thumb hump and no finger choil. Guaranteed to be useful.

I haven't decided yet whether I'll keep this one, but so far I definitely think it's a worthy entry and am a little sad to think it is already being retired. Were it me, I'd consider bringing this over to Golden and almost repurposing it as the Native's "Endela", landing between the 5 and the Chief. The Native Arrowhead or something. It feels more like that line than anything I've seen come out of Seki.

[Wartstein]

Keep in mind that "handle forward" designs are not new, in general. What Sal was specifically trying to accomplish with the "Jumper" series was a handle forward backlock. The challenge was to create a handle forward backlock design that can still be safely closed using the closing method of pressing the lock and dropping the kick onto the forefinger. Beyond that it's really not a novel concept and even Spyderco has made them for a long time.

I was about to say the same... or perhaps I´d even go a step further and question if in case of the Bodacious and other comp. or linerlock knives without a choil we perhaps should rather talk about "edge back" than "handle forward" designs - ?

- With the Jumpers the edge is still shorter than it could be on the handle side, due to the (to me weird) fact that many people, unlike with all other locktypes, with a backlock seem to be not willing to use another closing method than the "drop the ricasso/choil on the forefinger" (sure, unless there is a stop pin, some kind of kick is needed with a backlock, but I guess it could be pretty short) - it´s "just" that the ricasso is hidden inside the "brought forward" HANDLE.

- While with a comp./liner lock they often just bring the edge more or less all the way back to the handle, and there is less "hidden ricasso" than with the Jumpers, and thus more edge.
I think (even) with Sals backlock handle forward design a backlock Spydie could never achieve the great edge (not blade!!)-to-handle ratio like the Caribbean or Bodacious can - partly because that "drop the blade on the finger" thing still has to be an option with backlocks and a "hidden ricasso" (that is covered by an elongated handle) has to be there...

[skeeg11]

Please get in the habit of dropping the blade on your forefinger nail in stead of fleshy parts of your forefinger if you use that method. A few times and it becomes instinctive.

[Wartstein]

Please get in the habit of dropping the blade on your forefinger nail in stead of fleshy parts of your forefinger if you use that method. A few times and it becomes instinctive.

Yes, another one of quite some closing methods people could adopt instead of "dropping blade on the fleshy part" that would finally allow for true "edge all the way to the handle" also with backlocks....

[olywa]

I have a RJ and a LJ and I like them well enough, just not well enough to push my Enduras and Pac Salts out of my pocket. Perhaps if they had another half inch of handle?

If the Bodacious had a little thinner blade stock and a back lock it would be perfect.

[Wartstein]

.....
If the Bodacious had a little thinner blade stock and a back lock it would be perfect.

100 % this.
(Though like with the Shaman I don´t think that blade and a backlock would fit into the exact same handle)

[Soulrack]

I am huge fan of my Spyderedge Rock Jumper. I will keep and use it forever. It was a steal of a deal last Black Friday too.

[Jayrod1980]

I love my K390 Leafjumper. It by far has the best FRN kickback action of any Spyderco. Only the G10 Stretch XL Cruwear is close. My Stretch 2 K390 is absolutely awful by comparison (won’t even snap shut and is difficult to shake closed one handed… can’t do it without blade play and also has lock rock.) Not even the CF S90V Native 5 has an action as nice as the Leafjumper. I love it, and am shocked it didn’t sell well enough, especially in K390.

There are however 2 things I wish were improved if they re-release something in this choiless format. Fix the shape when closed so that it doesn’t have a bare open spine when shut. The Stretch and Native don’t have this issue… but it’s a minor aesthetic thing. The real issue for me is the palm swell. It needs to be reshaped. I think a shallower swoop near the front of the handle and less of a swell bulge would make the handle more comfortable, especially since there’s no “choil grip” position.

Also, regarding the Boye dent. On my Stretch 2, the dent actually lines up to almost disengage the lock. There’s no such issue at all on the Leafjumper or the Native 5, neither of which have the Boye dent. I think overall I like the Stretch 2 shape of blade and handle better than the Leafjumper, but the action and fit and finish are just miles and miles better than the FRN Stretch 2. If we don’t get a return for the Leafjumper, I would like to see some CQI put into the stretch to make the action smooth and less instance lock rock.

[Wartstein]

.... I think overall I like the Stretch 2 shape of blade and handle better than the Leafjumper, but the action and fit and finish are just miles and miles better than the FRN Stretch 2. If we don’t get a return for the Leafjumper, I would like to see some CQI put into the stretch to make the action smooth and less instance lock rock.

I assume you perhaps just had bad luck with your particular example of the Stretch 2... ?

At least I had a Leaf- as well as a Rockjumper and a "original blade shape" and a straight spine FRN Stretch 2 (and quite some Stretch 1s..) and I can´t recall that there was a noticeable difference concerning action and lock rock... all were actually pretty good in that regard...

Just my 2c and statistically not representative of course.

[p_atrick]

Fix the shape when closed so that it doesn’t have a bare open spine when shut. The Stretch and Native don’t have this issue…

The Native and Stretch don’t have this issue because the part of the handle that covers the blade is the same part that starts the forward choil.

[8th_Note]

I absolutely love my Leafjumper K390 PE. To me, it feels much better than the Endela (which is saying something because the Endela is a great knife and fits me best out of the Delica, Endela, Endura trio). I would choose the LJ in almost every situation. I'm disappointed they're discontinued.

I would really like to see, as others have said, a Salt version of this design. Maybe a LC200N/H2 version with a mildly curved hawkbill blade (the SailJumper ?) as well as the Leaf and Rock blades.

[ladybug93]

for me, the jumpers suffer most from competition, even within the ranks. when they were announced, my opinion was that the leafjumper fixed all the problems of the delica. it removed the weird finger spacing for a more neutral swell, and got rid of the ricasso.

what it didn't do, unfortunately, is come out in a host of interesting steels and with aftermarket accessories. by the time it was released and i was ready to pull the trigger, i was interested in a smaller knife with a wave and a karambit style ring. both could be purchased for the delica, but not for the jumpers. i went with a delica. then i realized what i had seen as problems for the delica became less problematic for me in use than expected and i got more delicas.

around that time, i also decided that i prefer an edc with a choil. the manix is my favorite and i always use the choil, so i found myself wanting to put my finger on blades of knives that didn't have a choil. i still carry and use some knives without them, but i acquire way less these days.

then, k390 was announced for the leafjumper. that was a steel i could get on board with trying the knife for, but then the stretch 2 xl was also announced in k390 before i could get a leafjumper. i still don't have either because others are jumping the line, but when it is time, i'll be making the stretch 2 xl my first k390 knife. it has a choil and i'm allowed to carry a knife up to 4" where i work now, so i don't need the smaller size of the leafjumper.



that's a lot to say that, for me personally, it was a matter of multiple factors working against the jumpers over time. i think they're great designs, but they just never worked for me in a way that made me actually pull the trigger.