LC200N Caribbean

[ZrowsN1s]

I've had the LC200N Never Summer Native for a while, and really like the dlc blade. I was hoping the Native salt would get the same just for aesthetics. Never had even a hint of rust on mine and I've left it covered in vinergar ladden bbq sause for a week in a wet sink. I leave it dirty all the time from food prep. Never an issue.

As for the PE edge retention vs. H1, yes, it is that much better. And for people who are fans of toothy aggressive edges, I have found LC200N to be that. Also FFG is much preferred over saber grind by me.

[The Meat man]

Hi guys & gals,

I guess I lied. My bad. Just spoke with Tom, factory manager, and he said the blade and lock for the Native salt WILL NOT BE COATED. Just the hardware.

sal

Sounds good! :)

[SpyderEdgeForever]

sal, now please tell me this again: The upcoming Spyderco Caribbean Salt will have a satin-finish blade, but, the interior hardware mechanisms will be coated, correct?

[Surfingringo]

I have been following this thread closely and I would like to chime in with some actual data I've accumulated over the last 5 years of testing H1 and lc200n every day in very corrosive environments.

First of all, I think we need to clarify the fact that any knife with normal stainless hardware will eventually corrode. I have made every Salt knife I own show rust, including the H1 folders and fixed blades. The thing is though, it is just the hardware finally succumbing to corrosion and not the blade material. The reason why I consider this a non issue is because it takes an EXTREME amount of exposure to make it happen. Here's an example; I can stick a pacific salt in my waistband and carry it in the ocean for 6 hours a day, 7 days a week and not even rinse it when I come home and the knife will never show any corrosion. I've done it for years without seeing any rust. If, however, I take that same knife and leave it in the kayak 24/7 resting in a pool of saltwater, it will eventually show a bit of red rust leaking out of the pivot area and the lockbar pivot. This usually takes about 6 weeks to become visible. I have mentioned this phenomenon here a few times but I have never complained about that and I have never bothered to take a picture because someone would probably ignore what I wrote and just share the picture and say "Look, H1 can rust!" :rolleyes: .

So again, any knife, fixed or folder, with regular stainless hardware will eventually show some rust if left in extreme conditions indefinitely. H1 knives are no different than lc200n in this regard because it has nothing to do with the blade steel. It's just the hardware corroding. As an example, I had a jump master and a lc200n mule mounted permanently to my kayak for about 6 months and at the end of that time both of them were bleeding rust from underneath the handle. I removed the handles and both were covered in red stains. All of this was from the hardware but if you didn't know that you would look at the mess and think that these weren't rust proof steels....until you looked at the blades that is. You see, the blades on both of those knives were still in pristine condition. Both knives had been bathed 24/7 in saltwater and put away wet and bloody every day. Six full months without so much as a splash of fresh water and not one speck of rust on the blades and not one bit of corrosive edge degradation. That tells me that both of these steels are immune to natural corrosive exposure...at least as immune as any human could ever need them to be.

Now here is the only difference I have noted in the corrosion resistance. Once I wiped the red rust off the handles of the two knives, the h1 looked shiny and new while the lc200n had some very tiny dark spots. They were visible to the naked eye but couldn't really be felt. I examined them with a 10x loupe and it did indeed appear that they were caused by the exposure to the corroding hardware. I don't know if I would call it "pitting" because they were very much surface stains but the steel did react more to the contact with a non rust proof steel than H1 did. As a control, I should also mention that I have another lc200n blade with no handle or hardware that has seen over a year of this exposure and it has zero corrosion.

My conclusion from a couple of years of comparing the two steels side by side in this environment is that both steels are completely immune to corrosion from exposure to elements such as salt and water. The only discernible difference in corrosion resistance between the two is that lc200n will show some slight effect when left in contact with another steel that is corroding. The answer to this seems simple enough and it sounds like Spyderco is moving in the right direction with DLC coating for the hardware. Once you eliminate the direct contact of lc200n to another metal it should prove to be every bit as rust proof as H1. For this reason, I believe that if all of the hardware is coated then there should be no need to coat the blade itself. I have been planning to try coated hardware on one of my folder prototypes but haven't gotten around to it yet so I am looking forward to trying it on some new salts. If it is as effective as I hope then I would personally like to see it used on ALL salts, even those with H1.

[Surfingringo]

Well I guess I'll go ahead and ask, what is the point of sticking with LC200N if the blades will be coated anyway? Of course the edge can still rust and degrade if we compare it to something like DLC coated M4, but it seems like an awful lot of effort to make a knife just so it can have FFG and a bit more edge retention than H1. If LC200N isn't more cost effective, won't we just get knives that have an added cost of everything being coated? Are the gains worth it over what we already have with H1? Not trying to be cynical here, just seems like if LC200N is going to take extra coating and cost to be rust proof and all we're gaining in return is FFG and a bit more edge retention, is it going to be worth it?

well if being coated it doesn't scratch like H1, it holds its edge longer and won't corrode, I guess that's a bit of improvement :confused: I think production cost/price will be the main decisive factor here

Ok but again let's say we coat another steel that may not be rust PROOF but is very good at resisting rust, like say S110V. Now that it's coated, the majority of the blade won't rust and we have a very significant advantage in edge retention. Is the difference between H1 and LC really that good?

DLC coated s30v will show rust all over the DLC coating when subjected to my environment. I'm not sure how that works but it happens. I can only assume that s110v would be no different.

[The Meat man]

Surfingringo, thanks for the clarification.

I know this may be splitting hairs, but in your opinion, wouldn't wear points like the lock interface of a folding knife eventually wear down the coating, thus exposing it to galvanic corrosion? Or perhaps that area wouldn't be as susceptible as say the pivot area?

[ejcr98]

I think I read somewhere that the hardware on the Caribbean was also from LC200N. If so, would that eliminate the problem of rust forming due to contact with another corroding metal? If so, why not do that instead of coating the hardware, which is suceptible to wearing out and thus exposing the different corroding metal?

[Surfingringo]

I think I read somewhere that the hardware on the Caribbean was also from LC200N. If so, would that eliminate the problem of rust forming due to contact with another corroding metal? If so, why not do that instead of coating the hardware, which is suceptible to wearing out and thus exposing the different corroding metal?

I believe the liners are Lc200n but definitely not the hardware.

[sal]

Hi Ejcr,

The blade and liners on the Caribbean are LC. The ball detent is ceramic, the clip is Titan. The screws are not LC.

sal

[ejcr98]

Sal and Surfingringo, thanks for the clarification. I live in Puerto Rico, so corrosion resistance is high on my list, since I am often in or close to the sea.

[sal]

Hi Ejcr,

We've spent some time there. Beautiful country. How are you guys holding up after the damage?

sal

[wrdwrght]

Will the Caribbean's pivot and stop pin also be LC200N? The washers?

[curlyhairedboy]

Hi Ejcr,

The blade and liners on the Caribbean are LC. The ball detent is ceramic, the clip is Titan. The screws are not LC.

sal

Good to know! Based on my understanding of the comp lock, are the pivot bushing and stop pin LC?

EDIT: slightly late to the question!

[sal]

Pivot and stop pin at this time are not LC.

sal

[Pfüderi]

Hello

First off: I joined this forum 2 minutes ago and i want to greet everyone.
Im a big spyderco fan and i have used many of your knives and so i have finally deceided to register here.
Sorry for my english, im from switzerland and i have a little bit trouble finding the correct words, if anything sounds weird please tell me and i will try again ;-)
Okay, enough time wasted, i have a question regarding the carribean: I order some of my knives from boker.de and their website tells me that they have this knives in stock. How is this possible?

Greets

[koenigsegg]

I can't wait for some LC. Any updates on when are we expecting to see the Waterway, Native LC and Caribbean?

[sal]

Hi Pfuderi,

Welcome to our forum. We hope you enjoy your time here.

The Caribbean model is in QC right now. I don't know if we've begun shipping, but if not, they'll be shipping soon.

sal

[Tdog]

Hello

First off: I joined this forum 2 minutes ago and i want to greet everyone.
Im a big spyderco fan and i have used many of your knives and so i have finally deceided to register here.
Sorry for my english, im from switzerland and i have a little bit trouble finding the correct words, if anything sounds weird please tell me and i will try again ;-)
Okay, enough time wasted, i have a question regarding the carribean: I order some of my knives from boker.de and their website tells me that they have this knives in stock. How is this possible?

Greets

Welcome Pfuderi, you've found a great forum. and already said the right words, "I'm a big Spyderco fan" :D

[sal]

Hi Pfuderi,

I check with international sales and our expport customers are shipped new models early so it is possible that Boker does in fact have them.

sal

[Surfingringo]

One other observation I should add. I carried the Spydiechef on my kayak exclusively for almost 6 months. 6 months of everyday bathing in saltwater and fish guts and it would get nothing but an occasional freshwater rinse. I never had rust issues other than the dentent ball showing some corrosive wear, and that is an issue that Spyderco has already addressed in the Caribbean. I don’t think anyone is going to have corrosion issues with the Caribbean whether they coat the hardware or not...I think the Caribbean would be worthy of the “salt” moniker either way. That said, I am happy they are doing it. More rust proof is more better. As usual, I appreciate that Spyderco goes the extra mile to get maximum performance out of their tools.