question for mike janich and any other sd enthusiast

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
2edgesword
Member
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 7:22 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

#101

Post by 2edgesword »

Dr. Snubnose wrote:Angles Smangles....There is no one right solution to every problem...though some systems teach this philosophy so the student doesn't have to remember loads of techniques, but can use just a few to deal with every situation. Throw an angle one and I'll do this etc. etc. etc. You know what...throw an angle 1 at me 100 times and each and every time I'll respond by doing 100 different techniques...If you could duplicate the exact angle of attack each time perfectly (which you can't) I would probably do the same technique to counter each time....I don't do this when my opponent does that, real fights don't happen that way...one thing to learn that way, and even train that way,it's another to fight that way. Kinda like flow drills are to learn to flow..it's not combat by any stretch of the imagination. I would never think to use one to defend myself...Doc :D
One of the principles of MBC is funneling, taking anything described as an angle 1 attack (with angle 1 covering anything from directly over head to about elbow height) and with slight modifications of one or two defensive responses you can deal effectively with that attack regardings of the contact weapon being used (knife, bottle, tire iron, etc.).

Similarly there are basic defensive responses to cover the infinite number of possibilities through 360° and straight line high or low attacks. The attacks can come from an infinite number of orientations but with some slight tweaking the same techniques can be used to funnel the attack into a similar place where it can be effective dealt with.

I have no doubt that you can deal with an angle 1 attack 101 different ways having spend most of your life as a serious disciple of numerous arts. Again, the obsessive, complusive types on this forum are a rare breed. We eat, drink and sleep this stuff. My focus is taking the average Joe that is going to spend a couple of hours a weak training and how to most efficiently get them to a level of practical proficiency in the shortest about of time. I think Michael's MBC system is near the top of the list for getting that done AND starting from a familar place with the student is one key element it getting it done.
Certified Instructor - Martial Blade Concepts

"The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men, and if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it possible an empire can rise without His aid?" Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
Dr. Snubnose
Member
Posts: 8799
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:54 pm
Location: NewYork

When you put it that way

#102

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

2edgesword wrote:One of the principles of MBC is funneling, taking anything described as an angle 1 attack (with angle 1 covering anything from directly over head to about elbow height) and with slight modifications of one or two defensive responses you can deal effectively with that attack regardings of the contact weapon being used (knife, bottle, tire iron, etc.).

Similarly there are basic defensive responses to cover the infinite number of possibilities through 360° and straight line high or low attacks. The attacks can come from an infinite number of orientations but with some slight tweaking the same techniques can be used to funnel the attack into a similar place where it can be effective dealt with.

I have no doubt that you can deal with an angle 1 attack 101 different ways having spend most of your life as a serious disciple of numerous arts. Again, the obsessive, complusive types on this forum are a rare breed. We eat, drink and sleep this stuff. My focus is taking the average Joe that is going to spend a couple of hours a weak training and how to most efficiently get them to a level of practical proficiency in the shortest about of time. I think Michael's MBC system is near the top of the list for getting that done AND starting from a familar place with the student is one key element it getting it done.
When you put it that way 2edge...I'm going to have to agree with you 100%...I think this is where Michael's work really shines. I think when it comes to a basic foundation, each and every student knifer should learn the forward grips and get them down pat. It will indeed set a foundation equal to none that will allow the student to learn and grasp the other methodologies more easily. To make this point clear when my FMA stick and dagger fighting class first got exposure to any knife techniques we covered only forward grip for quite a period of time. It was natural for them as they followed the same format (with changes in distance of course) as their sticking fighting techniques. Within a year of practice most students where able to assimilate and make the transition from stick to knife without difficulty. We also covered techniques in RGEO and most but not all were able to apply the techniques with a certain level of proficiency that I was satisfied with for the level they were out. A couple of months ago I introduced RGEI. I started the class with a lecture about the advantages and disadvantages of RGEI, gave a 15 minute demonstration in the use of this grip. At first just watching the students expressions on their faces seemed to say to me "That ain't right, that doesn't look effective, and why would I ever want my knife facing backwards" At first it seemed to me that they were watching as if they were seeing something very foreign to them. As I demonstrated more and more, they were grasping the concepts in their minds better and better with each moment that passed. When I finished the demo I told the class to just do a little shadow boxing, about twenty minutes, using the techniques and approach that I just demonstrated for them. I stood back and watched...I was simply amazed as I watched....they got it!....they got it big-time!....It was like enlightenment for them, like something upstairs for the first time just lite up....and was saying to them aaahhh-haaa!....Since that introduction we have been working almost exclusively with the RGEI techniques and tactics. The class seems to prefer the grip style. So what was once foreign has now turned into a familiar preference. Not just for one student but for all of them.
When we do drills with training knives one on one, or even real time sparring it is the grip of choice even though I tell them that they may choose whatever grip style they would like. To be perfectly honest, I don't think they would have ever gotten RGEI without the appreciation and skill to use the forward grip and developed a level of confidence and proficiency with those tactics and techniques first. I really believe that RGEI is more for the advanced level practitioner who already has a tool box full of techniques. I'm not saying that beginning level students can't learn RGEI from the git-go, I'm saying IMHO, that higher levels of skill and accomplishment can be better achieved through a strong foundation in other grip styles first. So you will get no argument from me about the virtues of learning forward grip tactics and techniques. Most people think about a coin as having two sides, front and back...when I look at a coin I always see three sides...front, back, and the edge.....I like to think of RGEI as the edge of that coin......not the one you normally see...but that doesn't mean it's not there....Doc :D
"Always Judge a man by the way he treats someone who could be of no possible use to him"

*Custom Avatar with the Help of Daywalker*
2edgesword
Member
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 7:22 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

#103

Post by 2edgesword »

Dr. Snubnose wrote:When you put it that way 2edge...I'm going to have to agree with you 100%...I think this is where Michael's work really shines. I think when it comes to a basic foundation, each and every student knifer should learn the forward grips and get them down pat. It will indeed set a foundation equal to none that will allow the student to learn and grasp the other methodologies more easily. To make this point clear when my FMA stick and dagger fighting class first got exposure to any knife techniques we covered only forward grip for quite a period of time. It was natural for them as they followed the same format (with changes in distance of course) as their sticking fighting techniques. Within a year of practice most students where able to assimilate and make the transition from stick to knife without difficulty. We also covered techniques in RGEO and most but not all were able to apply the techniques with a certain level of proficiency that I was satisfied with for the level they were out. A couple of months ago I introduced RGEI. I started the class with a lecture about the advantages and disadvantages of RGEI, gave a 15 minute demonstration in the use of this grip. At first just watching the students expressions on their faces seemed to say to me "That ain't right, that doesn't look effective, and why would I ever want my knife facing backwards" At first it seemed to me that they were watching as if they were seeing something very foreign to them. As I demonstrated more and more, they were grasping the concepts in their minds better and better with each moment that passed. When I finished the demo I told the class to just do a little shadow boxing, about twenty minutes, using the techniques and approach that I just demonstrated for them. I stood back and watched...I was simply amazed as I watched....they got it!....they got it big-time!....It was like enlightenment for them, like something upstairs for the first time just lite up....and was saying to them aaahhh-haaa!....Since that introduction we have been working almost exclusively with the RGEI techniques and tactics. The class seems to prefer the grip style. So what was once foreign has now turned into a familiar preference. Not just for one student but for all of them.
When we do drills with training knives one on one, or even real time sparring it is the grip of choice even though I tell them that they may choose whatever grip style they would like. To be perfectly honest, I don't think they would have ever gotten RGEI without the appreciation and skill to use the forward grip and developed a level of confidence and proficiency with those tactics and techniques first. I really believe that RGEI is more for the advanced level practitioner who already has a tool box full of techniques. I'm not saying that beginning level students can't learn RGEI from the git-go, I'm saying IMHO, that higher levels of skill and accomplishment can be better achieved through a strong foundation in other grip styles first. So you will get no argument from me about the virtues of learning forward grip tactics and techniques. Most people think about a coin as having two sides, front and back...when I look at a coin I always see three sides...front, back, and the edge.....I like to think of RGEI as the edge of that coin......not the one you normally see...but that doesn't mean it's not there....Doc :D
I only have limited exposure to RGEI and haven't really explore the possibilities. That said I appreciate your insight on the issue and value your opinion on where the starting place should be for most students. A few other comments...

"I'm 5"7 (almost, cause I'm shrinking by the day LOL) and a whopping 138lbs"

I'm going to have to get over to your place and take you out for a 12 oz Sirloin at Outback :) .

"Most people think about a coin as having two sides, front and back...when I look at a coin I always see three sides...front, back, and the edge"

Some of the coin grading companies are putting coins in holders where you can actually see the third side (edge)...numismatics anyone? :)
Certified Instructor - Martial Blade Concepts

"The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men, and if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it possible an empire can rise without His aid?" Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
Dr. Snubnose
Member
Posts: 8799
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:54 pm
Location: NewYork

#104

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

2edgesword wrote:I only have limited exposure to RGEI and haven't really explore the possibilities. That said I appreciate your insight on the issue and value your opinion on where the starting place should be for most students. A few other comments...

"I'm 5"7 (almost, cause I'm shrinking by the day LOL) and a whopping 138lbs"

I'm going to have to get over to your place and take you out for a 12 oz Sirloin at Outback :) .

"Most people think about a coin as having two sides, front and back...when I look at a coin I always see three sides...front, back, and the edge"

Some of the coin grading companies are putting coins in holders where you can actually see the third side (edge)...numismatics anyone? :)
Just warning you now.....I cut my steak with RGEI.....Doc :p
"Always Judge a man by the way he treats someone who could be of no possible use to him"

*Custom Avatar with the Help of Daywalker*
Post Reply