Important Clarifications

[Michael Janich]

I'd like to make a clarification of my own, please. Kristi originally started this thread after reading other threads dealing with swapping parts between knives and the creation of "FrankenSpyders." In those threads, several forum members erroneously stated that such actions did not void the Spyderco warranty. That's not the case.

Simple logic dictates that Spyderco can only warranty our parts and our skilled labor. If an end user does not have the skill to disassemble a knife and reassemble it to original factory spec, that fact will be obvious. Having personally performed warranty repairs for another knife company, I have seen this numerous times. In some cases, the inadequate skills of the customer adversely affected the operation of the knife, caused undue wear and stress on parts, and rendered the knife unsafe to use. That company had the same policy (Disassembly voids the warranty) for those very reasons.

If you have the skills, the tools, and the knowledge to disassemble a knife and reassemble it to its original condition, the fact that you did so should be undetectable. If you later return it for warranty repair without acknowledging the fact that you'd disassembled it, that's your ethical dilemma.

Spyderco's warranty policy has not changed. Kristi's post was intended to highlight the fact that just because people on this forum discuss modifications and part-swapping between knives doesn't mean their actions make them immune from the terms of the warranty policy. The rules have always been clear.

Finally, as anyone who has EVER dealt with our warranty repair folks before knows, we exercise a lot of judgment in our consideration of returned knives and always try to give the customer the benefit of the doubt. If you return a knife in good faith and take the time to clearly explain the issues you had with it, you will be treated fairly and we will stand behind our products. Conversely, if you KNOW the warranty policy, pursposely choose to violate that policy by disassembling your knife, and then reassemble it improperly before returning it, the situation is markedly different.

The policy has not changed, nor has our enforcement of it. Please stop the wild speculation as to what we will and won't do. Maintain your knives responsibly and behave professionally and you will, as always, be treated fairly.

Stay safe,

Mike

[224477]

Thanks Mike, well put in fact.

[ChrisR]

Yep - well said Mike :)

[SaturnNyne]

What if I had to disassemble my knife to construct a make-shift fishing pole while on a deserted island? Would the warranty still be in-tact upon my rescue?

I'm looking into boycotting along with other abandoned island goers if so.

It's not just the abandoned island goers who are under attack, my friend.

Being a dummy, I enjoy taking my knives apart and then putting them back together incorrectly so as to damage the components. But now they've drafted this new warranty that also discriminates against me and all dummies like me! You can't take away my right to be a dummy without consequence, this is America! :D


That was a joke, now let's get serious.

I too, asked that since I tighten all the screws on any knife I receive, there's bound to be some marks on the screws. Is the warranty then void?

In your case, if you notice visible scratches and are concerned about it when sending a knife in, politely say to them, "my screws may show some scratches because I habitually check to make sure they're properly tightened, but I have not disassembled it." As long as they don't find that your screws have been overtightened and/or stripped, I'm guessing you will be given no cause for concern at all. The knife is in new condition except for cosmetic wear from a maintenance check. You will be fine, pretend you never saw this and proceed as before, no need for stress.

Similarly, if you disassembled a knife and damaged something, your warranty has clearly been voided. Tell them what happened when you send it in; they will probably treat you reasonably but make you pay for what you damaged, and they probably won't even yell at you or give you That Look or nothin'.

The fact that I even opened this thread tells me I need to take a long vacation from this forum. Maybe I'll see you next year.

I really hope you're joking. I kind of understand the feeling, we've had a lot of misunderstanding and squabbling lately, but it's just a bad week and the forum would certainly be worse off without you.

I had all those sand and dust and salewater in my knives many times and finally learned that to clean it and oil properly I have to disassemble - otherwise it will be for weeks sand in pivot and mechanics will not work as new (well it will be able to operate - cut of course).

Now I'm as tired of Vassili's blue-faced word-twisting and mountain-of-a-mole-hill-ing as the next guy, but my limited experience tends to agree with this part. I haven't wrestled alligators in sewers, but I have gotten beach sand in a pivot and been unable to get it out with washing under a tap or blowing air through it, even with the pivot loosened to allow more room. It improved it, but the pivot still had sand grinding in it until I took it apart and cleaned it. What am I doing wrong? Is it really possible to completely clean grit out of the pivot on a knife with a non-stainless blade and dry it thoroughly enough to have no concern of hidden corrosion? I know this isn't the place to discuss it, but it's something I'd like to learn more about after getting forced to disassemble a knife twice because of it. Maybe I should have tried the flossing trick Deacon recommends.

(BTW, if the knife I took apart is no longer warrantied because of it, I'm fine with that and don't feel scared. If anything ever goes wrong with it, the company might tell me I was naughty for deconstructing their creation, but I'm confident that they'll still get it up and running again with no more grief than I deserve.)

Wow I'm starting to wish there was more talk of rope cut tests :) .

That's the funniest line in this thread. :D

Lastly, the next person who mentions an attorney should get sued for frustration. Better yet let's hope they boycott one thing: The Internet.

And those are in the running for the top five.

It would be nice to curb this headache for a few days.

It really has been an uppity week on a normally very laidback forum. :/ Let's get some positive thoughts flowing for next week, eh mates? :)

Simple logic dictates that Spyderco can only warranty our parts and our skilled labor.

If you have the skills, the tools, and the knowledge to disassemble a knife and reassemble it to its original condition, the fact that you did so should be undetectable.

Spyderco's warranty policy has not changed.

If you return a knife in good faith and take the time to clearly explain the issues you had with it, you will be treated fairly and we will stand behind our products.

Maintain your knives responsibly and behave professionally and you will, as always, be treated fairly.

Annd... we're done? Let's all take a deep breath and hug it out. :p

[Mr Blonde]

OK, I read this, because I love discussion on corporate policy, risk mitigation, marketing. I own Spyderco knives. I use them. I abuse them. I mod them. I've broken some. Here's the deal:

1) I take FULL responsibility for any knife I own. I mod it and strip a screw, too bad for me. I drop in on the tip and break off half an inch, too bad for me. I don't return them for warranty work. I will fix it or toss it.

2) These are knives, usually sub $150. If you screw it up, you aren't really out that much. If that is a lot of money to you (and that's a possibility) then treat it very carefully.

3) How many REAL warranty returns are there? REAL manufacturer defects? Not uneven grinds (sharpen it yourself) or 2mm off centered blade (deal with it) or cosmetic irregularities in CF, FRN, inside the knife where you can't see it (again, deal with it)... but REAL failures because of a manufacturer's defect? Not many. And abuse need not apply - you smack your knife full force handle first against a log, that's not regular use. Think about it for a while. How many REAL warranty issues have you had, heard about or seen? Many years ago I broke a Delica blade under regular use. Sent it in, with a polite explanation, got one back in a week or so, and with an improvement in the serration pattern. Once, happened to me ONCE.

3) If you worry about warranty, and money is tight, rinse your knife, scrub it, soak it and relube it. Anything will come out of a pivot - mud, sand, blood, whatever - with a good soak and scrub. That's what I usually do, but then again, I don't care about the warranty, and I trust my skills, so a takedown in not out of the question.

I didn't really want to jump in, but I did. I comes down to a few simple things - do you think that taking your knife apart caused a "defect in workmanship?" That is preposterous. If warranty is more important that enjoying the use of the knife, don't take it apart. And, in the extremely unlikely event of a defect in workmanship, be polite, courteous, and I am certain that Spyderco will take care of you with the white glove treatment.

I think that many folks, on this forum, not on this forum, out in the real world, look for things to go wrong. In some cases, many folks carry Spydercos but barely use them, other than for threads and envelopes. In general (and yes, I am prejudging here) it is that kind of person that will tinker, take apart, complain about the warranty of purely theoretical grounds. Just look at forum pics of knives - pristine, shiny, near new. On the other end of the scale is the person who uses the knife - not abuses - put puts it through mud and grit, who carves hinge recesses with a knife because he or she forgot a chisel, who cuts shingle, or strips wire, who puts it away dirty because he or she doesn't have the time to baby the knife right away. I am not judging either camp (but you can tell which one I am in). It's your knife, do what you will. BUT, don't expect unreasonable services, warranties or promises. Take responsibility, be reasonable and logical, everything will fall into place.

PS - If you can't fight the urge to take it apart, find a fully pinned model!

Wow, it's like you jumped in my mind and took the words right out of my mouth. A very sincere +1 from me on this post!!

Wouter

[unit]

Saturn, You are a funny dude! I love your post...I offer my appreciation!

Mr. Janich, Wow! Such plain English and simple "down home" logic! I am surprised it needed to be said though.

Warranties are funny things. People get all twisted up about (wording and limitations of) warranties sometimes...truth is, they are un-necessary with good products and companies. I think Spyderco makes some good stuff, and I think the people behind the knives are reasonable and fair. I probably will not agree with every dealing I ever have with them, but that is life...as long as we continue to give each other fair and honest consideration, I will be satisfied.

[Michael Janich]

Is it really possible to completely clean grit out of the pivot on a knife with a non-stainless blade and dry it thoroughly enough to have no concern of hidden corrosion? I know this isn't the place to discuss it, but it's something I'd like to learn more about after getting forced to disassemble a knife twice because of it.

With the exception of automatic knives, which have spring recesses and drive springs around the pivot, most knives can be thoroughly cleaned without actual disassembly. I use hot water, dish detergent, soft toothbrushes, and flux brushes (like a stiff-bristles paintbrush) to scrub out the crud. I then rinse them thoroughly, taking care to "hold open" back locks to allow water to flush between the lock bar and the tang.

To dry the knife, I use canned air with the narrow extension tube (available at any computer or electronics store) and use the same technique to blow all the water out of the internal parts. Using hot water helps because it promotes rapid evaporation and thorough drying. Cotton swabs (if necessary, flattened with a tap from a hammer) also work great to get down inside handle slots.

If you're concerned that you didn't get all the water out of the internal parts, one handy trick is to pack your knife in uncooked rice for a couple of days. If you've ever been to a tropical climate, you may have seen uncooked rice mixed with salt in salt shakers. The rice acts as a natural desiccant, absorbing the humidity and preventing the rice from clumping. The same thing happens with your knife. (Some folks even claim that the rice trick can be used to dry out cell phones and other electronics that have accidentally gotten wet.)

If you're in a hurry, WD-40 can be used to displace water (WD-40 actually stands for "water displacement, 40th try"). Applied to critical areas, it can help flush out any remaining grit, displace water from the cleaning process, and coat the parts to help prevent corrosion. Note, however, that WD-40 is not a proper lubricant. If you use it to displace water, you should use compressed air again to blow out any excess WD-40 and then lubricate critical moving parts with a proper oil or silicone lubricant.

Folks who regularly work around mud, dirt, sand, etc. should consider Spyderco knives that are specifically designed for such environments. The open-backed handle design of the Military, for example, was a purposeful choice to allow the knife to be easily cleaned in harsh desert environments.

I hope this helps.

Stay safe,

Mike

[ChrisR]

Great advice - I always wondered why some dried rice always seemed to find its way into hotel/restaurant salt shakers ... I just guessed they were a bit careless :D

[SteelDragon]

great advice - i always wondered why some dried rice always seemed to find its way into hotel/restaurant salt shakers ... I just guessed they were a bit careless :d

:d

[Blerv]

I'll drink to that Saturn! In fact...hmmm...be right back.

PB&J & R(um)

[nozh2002]

The policy has not changed, nor has our enforcement of it. Please stop the wild speculation as to what we will and won't do. Maintain your knives responsibly and behave professionally and you will, as always, be treated fairly.

Stay safe,

Mike

So cant you state clear and simple - Does disassembling which did not damage knife void Warranty or it does not?

Thanks, Vassili

[ChrisR]

I think Mike did ... if you take a knife apart and reassemble it perfectly so that no damage is done then nobody would ever know it had been taken apart, unless you told them. If you tell CS that you took the knife apart then it will immediately create some suspicion that the problem was caused by wrong assembly ... but you'll still be treated fairly no matter what ... as always. :)

Anyway, it's a Spyderco ... the chances of needing a warranty repair are next to zero! :D

[v8r]

My brother it is not hard to understand.I am not trying to belittle or insult you, but maybe you don't quite grasp the English language. I am not making fun of you or anything, but the question has been answered many times already.Answers have been worded in several different ways to try to make it easily understandable for anyone that speaks the English language.Several true experts have answered your question graciously.Your question has been answered yet you still continue to ask?:confused :D o you think that by asking numerous times that you will get the answer that you want to hear? Sometimes my friend the answer is simply not what we want to hear.Spyderco's warranty procedures make perfect sense to me without trying to read between the lines.Most people here can clean their knives without a complete overhaul, but maybe you can't.If this is the case then fine take your knives apart to your heart's content and just accept that you have voided the warranty.Please don't throw a good and honest company under the bus that has a great track record for superb customer service.If you don't feel you have been treated fairly then common sense should tell you to not purchase their products.

[Blerv]

So cant you state clear and simple - Does disassembling which did not damage knife void Warranty or it does not?

Thanks, Vassili

Vassili,

Why are you so concerned about the warranty if you can put them together so well?

The way I figure if you mess things up you can pay to have it fixed properly. If you didn't mess it up they will fix it under warranty. Either way...whoever made the mistake had to pay for the problem.

My apologies if any of this is insulting. As a Youtube knife reviewer and conductor of extensive knife tests it boggles my mind you would be so concerned about who pays the bill for fixing knives that you can't. My guess is you can reassemble a Delica in the dark...right?

I might have to rethink those test results otherwise.

[Tank]

Other than Kristi clarifying some statements she read here I don't see a point to all of this. Spyderco has always said disassembly voids warranty. Whats the issue. Of the thousands of knives owned by us on this forum how many have been sent back for mfg defects and not covered? Of all of mine over 20years none. I had one 15 years ago that actually needed repair (I bought it at the flea market and later the handle broke so I sent it in and was informed that it was not a "real" Spyderco. I figured my loss and a couple of days later they sent me the actually Spyderco I thought I bought) All other returns for me was to sharpen or fix a tip and all I ever paid was shipping.

Spyderco W&R is top notch in my book and I think all the what ifs going on should stop. The warranty is what it is and if you don't like it stop buying spyderco's.

[unit]

So cant you state clear and simple - Does disassembling which did not damage knife void Warranty or it does not?

Thanks, Vassili

If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, did it make a sound?

Repeat as needed.

[JNewell]

Magic language in bold red below. I would think no further discussion would be necessary, but...

I'd like to make a clarification of my own, please. Kristi originally started this thread after reading other threads dealing with swapping parts between knives and the creation of "FrankenSpyders." In those threads, several forum members erroneously stated that such actions did not void the Spyderco warranty. That's not the case.

Simple logic dictates that Spyderco can only warranty our parts and our skilled labor. If an end user does not have the skill to disassemble a knife and reassemble it to original factory spec, that fact will be obvious. Having personally performed warranty repairs for another knife company, I have seen this numerous times. In some cases, the inadequate skills of the customer adversely affected the operation of the knife, caused undue wear and stress on parts, and rendered the knife unsafe to use. That company had the same policy (Disassembly voids the warranty) for those very reasons.

If you have the skills, the tools, and the knowledge to disassemble a knife and reassemble it to its original condition, the fact that you did so should be undetectable. If you later return it for warranty repair without acknowledging the fact that you'd disassembled it, that's your ethical dilemma.

Spyderco's warranty policy has not changed. Kristi's post was intended to highlight the fact that just because people on this forum discuss modifications and part-swapping between knives doesn't mean their actions make them immune from the terms of the warranty policy. The rules have always been clear.

Finally, as anyone who has EVER dealt with our warranty repair folks before knows, we exercise a lot of judgment in our consideration of returned knives and always try to give the customer the benefit of the doubt. If you return a knife in good faith and take the time to clearly explain the issues you had with it, you will be treated fairly and we will stand behind our products. Conversely, if you KNOW the warranty policy, pursposely choose to violate that policy by disassembling your knife, and then reassemble it improperly before returning it, the situation is markedly different.

The policy has not changed, nor has our enforcement of it. Please stop the wild speculation as to what we will and won't do. Maintain your knives responsibly and behave professionally and you will, as always, be treated fairly.

Stay safe,

Mike

[JNewell]

So cant you state clear and simple - Does disassembling which did not damage knife void Warranty or it does not?

Thanks, Vassili

Vassili, some things are better left open. Don't insist on fretting yourself, or others? :)

[JNewell]

For those with the interest and willingness, I'll add that two of the most useful devices I've ever bought were a good-sized ultrasonic cleaner and a mid-range (barely) portable air compressor. Clean and dry? Oh, yes indeed.

[dsmegst]

I've had to return 3 Spydercos for warranty issues and they were replaced without any issues. 2 were manufacturing defects and 1 was a premature failure of the lock. No one asked me to prove anything or asked me if I had abused the knives. The new knives were mailed back to me, and of the 3, they sent my return postage back to me twice. No complaints here.