Am I missing out on S110V?

[Sharp Guy]

Based on some of the other posts I think I should clarify that I don't dislike S110V and I don't find it particularly difficult to sharpen when I take the time to do it properly. That's where the problem is for me

The past couple years I've settled into being more of a general pocket knife user. Which means I no longer use my knives for work and I don't go around looking for things to cut up just so I can resharpen them again. My knives do get used and I do like to keep them sharp. So I keep a Sharpmaker on my bench that I use for quick touch ups as needed. It does exactly what I need it to do with all the other steels I own (even Maxamet) but, understandably so, S110V doesn't respond so well.

Now, since I chimed in the other day, I've realized that I completely forgot about the fact that I made Sharpmaker like bases for my DMT and Venev diamond stones for this very reason. I think I used them once or twice (they work fine) and then put them away in a drawer. For my use I still prefer other steels to S110V but I did find a work around to my touch up issue

I do like how stainless S110V is but I'll likely take Wand ering_About's advice about trying some Magnacut. I've planned to all along but just haven't pulled the trigger yet. I was hoping to get something with Magnacut in the online seconds sale but it didn't work out

[Doc Dan]

The only thing I like about the S110V is the blurple G10 scales (love that color). I don't hate the steel, or anything. I prefer S90V and K390.

[benben]

I have a Manix LW in S110V, I really like that knife and I never let it get dull. Having said that, that one Manix in S110V is enough for me!

[Dnwrghtsr]

I have moved to mostly stainless. I carry knives mostly for self defense and the odd knife job. It is almost always humid here. Every tool steel knife I have I have forced a patina to try to hold back the rust or at least slow it down. I like s110v I don’t let knives get very dull because I don’t use them that often. My hunting knife ( police k390 SE ) only gets used once or twice a year. Backpacking I like s110v, s90v, or lc200n.

[Airlsee]

S90V is in my top 3 favorite steels and I only own one knife in S110V, the UKPK. It doesn't get all the steel choices of the mainstays but PE S110V & SE LC200N make a fantastic duo.

While I prefer S90V, I've got no real gripes about S110V especially on a knife like the UKPK.

[Erion929]

Haven’t noticed any chipping on my S110V PM2. Diamond sharpened 20 dps to 600 grit, then stropped on diamond paste….stays very sharp, and just strop lightly after using for a couple of months.

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[TomAiello]

I've been able to put rust on s90v, but never on s110v. In my mind, the advantage of s110v is for people who require additional stain resistance over what s90v offers.

[Bolster]

I keep an S110V Manix LW in my commuter backpack: I don't have to worry about corrosion, and I don't have to worry about dulling. It's a sharpen-and-forget-about-it, no-hassle, low-maintenance option.

[dull&blunt]

I've asked myself this question several times. So thanks to the OP for posing it to the community.

After reading the thread I think I'll content with my S90V PM2

[aicolainen]

Rust is a biggie for me and it’s quite a long time since I first realized S110V had really good corrosion resistant properties and this version of the Manix 2 came in on my radar. Before I got around to acquire one, rumors started popping up about a move to screwed construction, and before those hit the market we had pretty solid indications that a magnacut salt was in the works.
With rust resistance being the main attraction to me, it seems the S110V M2 was ultimately beaten on the finish line by a true salt, but I’m sure S110V would have served me very well in the intended role and saved me from much waiting.

[Albertaboyscott]

I like s110v. My milli and para2 are favorites

[billdoier72]

IMHO, you're not missing a lot.

I had a Manix 2 in S110v and was so underwhelmed with it, I sold it.

It's the only Spyderco I've ever sold.

There was nothing wrong with it exactly.

But it was the most "vanilla" edge that I've ever experienced.

I have a moderate knife collection with a diverse steel selection.

It's my least favorite steel to date.

[Brock O Lee]

The knife that really shines for me in S110V is the UKPK. It is my go to knife to carry in waistband, where S110V's excellent corrosion resistance is appreciated.

It is likely the most affordable way to experience the steel.

[zuludelta]

So, is it worth it to invest in a S110V Native, to be used as a high performance pseudo-Salt, or is it close enough to S90V that I can skip it? And if I should bite the bullet: Is there a particular model you love in this steel?

I've got a couple of knives in S90V (Yojumbo, Lil' Native) & 4 in S110V (Native 5 LW, UKPK, PM2, Manix 2) that I have used as work knives over the years, hopefully my experience with them can help you make a more informed choice.

The notion of using an S110V Spyderco as a "pseudo-Salt", as you put it, is sound. I reach for my S110V Native 5 LW when my cutting tool risks being exposed to, or immersed in, corrosive or caustic environments and substances, but I need significantly more edge retention than what LC200N can provide. In my mind, this particular situation is where S110V's qualities really shine, and where it really has no peer. I guess 20CV comes somewhat close, but I'll take S110V over 20CV in this regard—Spyderco runs its S110V very hard (somewhere in the 63–65 hRC range, which just makes it an edge-stability beast when paired with a suitable bevel).

S110V holds a working edge for a ridiculously long time and I have no qualms about using it as my work knife. I do notice it loses its hair-whittling razor sharpness a bit quicker compared to S90V, but I have little practical need for hair-whittling sharpness at work. I've also never had any issues with S110V chipping while doing tasks I normally do with knives in nominally tougher powder metallurgy stainless steels. Or to put it another way: any activity or material that has chipped my S110V knife in my work context has similarly damaged my other knives in S90V, S30V, and S45VN.

As far as sharpening goes, I think you should be fine if you're capable of sharpening S90V. It might be a little harder to deburr, but that might just be my perception being skewed by the popular online opinion.

As for my favourite model in S110V, it has to be the Native 5 LW, because its linerless construction is ideal for the use case I outlined above. You could say the same thing for the UKPK in S110V (and it has an even slicier blade and what for me feels like a more comfortable handle shape), but I prefer a locking knife for work.

[Bolster]

^ Wow, good answer. Thanks Zulu.

[DukeBrnz]

So, is it worth it to invest in a S110V Native, to be used as a high performance pseudo-Salt, or is it close enough to S90V that I can skip it? And if I should bite the bullet: Is there a particular model you love in this steel?

I've got a couple of knives in S90V (Yojumbo, Lil' Native) & 4 in S110V (Native 5 LW, UKPK, PM2, Manix 2) that I have used as work knives over the years, hopefully my experience with them can help you make a more informed choice.

The notion of using an S110V Spyderco as a "pseudo-Salt", as you put it, is sound. I reach for my S110V Native 5 LW when my cutting tool risks being exposed to, or immersed in, corrosive or caustic environments and substances, but I need significantly more edge retention than what LC200N can provide. In my mind, this particular situation is where S110V's qualities really shine, and where it really has no peer. I guess 20CV comes somewhat close, but I'll take S110V over 20CV in this regard—Spyderco runs its S110V very hard (somewhere in the 63–65 hRC range, which just makes it an edge-stability beast when paired with a suitable bevel).

S110V holds a working edge for a ridiculously long time and I have no qualms about using it as my work knife. I do notice it loses its hair-whittling razor sharpness a bit quicker compared to S90V, but I have little practical need for hair-whittling sharpness at work. I've also never had any issues with S110V chipping while doing tasks I normally do with knives in nominally tougher powder metallurgy stainless steels. Or to put it another way: any activity or material that has chipped my S110V knife in my work context has similarly damaged my other knives in S90V, S30V, and S45VN.

As far as sharpening goes, I think you should be fine if you're capable of sharpening S90V. It might be a little harder to deburr, but that might just be my perception being skewed by the popular online opinion.

As for my favourite model in S110V, it has to be the Native 5 LW, because its linerless construction is ideal for the use case I outlined above. You could say the same thing for the UKPK in S110V (and it has an even slicier blade and what for me feels like a more comfortable handle shape), but I prefer a locking knife for work.

This was a very helpful answer, many thanks ZD!

[DukeBrnz]

My favorite S110V model is the Military. I never experienced chipping or any kind of edge instability, but preemptively micro-convexed it with DMT plates and maintain by freehand sharpening and stropping with diamonds as needed. Yes, it can be slightly harder to sharpen than the rest, but if i can keep it sharp, it means the only real challenge in my knife collection remains a Sandrin Torino.

Holy smokes that is something spectacular! I have to ask: who made the scales? Thanks for answer, and the photo. I mean.. just wow.

[olywa]

I've had good experience with S110V in multiple models. Once I've established the desired edge angle it becomes relatively easy to re-sharpen and I really haven't had any issues with chipping. Of course, I use my knives the way they were intended to be used.

[bearfacedkiller]

I like S110V a lot. I don’t live near the ocean and don’t need an actual salt knife so s110V is my go to summer steel when the humidity approaches 100%. I learned many years ago through considerably abusing the Mule that it is extremely corrosion resistant. If I think I will be sweating buckets then I’ll carry my S110V Military.

If I need edge retention and corrosion resistance it’s a great choice.

I’m a fairly proficient sharpener so that isn’t really a factor for me. I also don’t do a lot of tasks that would test toughness. I use my knives pretty hard but I try to be deliberate and avoid edge damage.

Variety is great. You won’t know until you try. I say go for it.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

So, is it worth it to invest in a S110V Native, to be used as a high performance pseudo-Salt, or is it close enough to S90V that I can skip it? And if I should bite the bullet: Is there a particular model you love in this steel?

Spyderco runs its S110V very hard (somewhere in the 63–65 hRC range, which just makes it an edge-stability beast when paired with a suitable bevel).

If this were in fact true, you could run this steel at geometries which are literally half the included angle of what the factory runs. If you believe it is in fact a high stability steel, I would suggest proving that to yourself in practice : reprofile the edge and test the results and see if you still feel the same way and the results match your expectations. Likely you would not feel the same about it if you ran that test alongside something like LC200N at same geometry.

Hardness does increase stability but the main factor is carbide volume and at 27% carbide volume that would put this on the low end of edge-stability spectrum of all given steels that Spyderco uses. LC200N would be at the other end of the spectrum as it's basically a super rust-proof AEB-L at reasonably high hardness with low carbide volume. It seems many people falsely believe hardness is the only or most important metric in edge stability.

* S110V – 2050°F (27% carbide volume)

Attributed to Roman Landes (respected metallurgist) :

"Classifed steels into three groups, type I, type II, and type III mainly based on carbide volume, 0.5-5%, 5-15%, and greater than 15% respectively. These groups needed different angles to both take and hold a high polished sharpness, 8-12, 12-20, and 20-30 degrees per side respectively. The greater the size and volume of carbide, the greater the angle required to keep the edge stable."

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So if you look at his figures, you'll see that comparing AEB-L class steels (type I) to S110V (type III) actually requires the following : For S-110V (type III), an edge/apex angle which is almost three times as obtuse relative to AEB-L class steels (type 1). I would not call that stable if it requires what amounts to the rough equivalent of the geometry at the apex of a cold chisel. I would call that type of performance fragile in that it requires such a large mass of steel at the apex to avoid failure.