Steel Collecting vs. Intended Use

[da1cyclist]

I’ve been looking to add both a Microjimbo and a Yojimbo to my stable. I recently picked up the new 15V MicroJimbo. I was sold on the BBB heat treatment story—and don’t get me wrong, the quality is fantastic—but it left me wondering: is 15V really the best steel for the intended use of the Jimbo family?

I completely understand the appeal of offering every model in the steel du jour, but I love to dive into the nuance of selecting steels that are tailored to how a knife is intended to be used. For a design like the Yojimbo, something stainless with high toughness might be a more appropriate match for its intended role.

Personally, I’d be really interested in seeing a Yojimbo in a tough steel like CruWear (I know, not technically stainless), Magnacut, or even something more “basic” like AEB-L or 420HC—steels that prioritize durability over edge retention and not be as worried about breaking off the tip.

Curious to hear what others think. Could you be sold on the best steel for the intended use, or do you simply like what's trending at the time?

[Evil D]

Literally speaking, the intended use being slashing at another person who is attacking you, then I say any steel that is strong enough to not break during use is good enough. How much edge retention do you even need to defend your life? I would think that even the lowest edge retention steel that Spyderco uses is more than adequate here. Plenty of people have died at the end of bronze blades.


Generally speaking, while these knives are brilliantly designed for self defense, they are also more or less just tactical utility knives. I've found that oftentimes the same qualities that make a knife great for self defense also make them great for utility work. As long as you aren't using them as a screwdriver or pry bar, these are just overbuilt utility knives and that's where edge retention and toughness are very useful, particularly with a thin acute blade tip.


I don't disagree that toughness would be a desired quality here either, and if they make us a line of Yo Salts I'll be first in line because corrosion resistance is another quality that many guys want in a knife like this that may be carried in their wasteband and subjected to sweat/moisture. I've always thought H1/H2 would be really ideal steels for the Yo series and I'd be all for MagnaCut too.

[Danke]

There's no best steel.

[cjk]

...
Personally, I’d be really interested in seeing a Yojimbo in a tough steel like CruWear (I know, not technically stainless), Magnacut, or even something more “basic” like AEB-L or 420HC—steels that prioritize durability over edge retention and not be as worried about breaking off the tip.
....

DLT trading did an exclusive Yojimbo 2 with purple G-10 and DLC Cruwear.
KnifeCenter did an exclusive Yojimbo 2 with smooth black G-10 and satin Cruwear.

BladeHQ did both satin and dlc M4 with jade G-10. I'd expect that M4 is tougher than S30V or 15V, but it will rust.

Here's where you can see who did what:
https://www.spydiewiki.com/index.php/C85_Yojimbo

The SPY27 Yo2 currently in the catalog is probably the toughest between the available or soon to be available S30V and the 15V sprint. SPY27 also pretty stainless. Looking at toughness graphs from knifesteelnerds, SPY27 seems like it might be in the toughness ballpark of CPM-M4 depending on hardness. I also assume that I'm reading things right as I'm no expert.
I'm not sure if the SPY27 or 15V ones are available yet or not.

Maybe there will be a Crucarta Yo2 someday?

[RustyIron]

What you describe makes sense, especially when you subscribe to the philosophy of those who carry one knife for working and one knife for sticking bad guys.

Personally, I only carry one knife for all purposes. Maybe there is one steel to rule them all, but I just like playing with metal so it's not that big of a deal for me.

[WilliamMunny]

I’ve been looking to add both a Microjimbo and a Yojimbo to my stable. I recently picked up the new 15V MicroJimbo. I was sold on the BBB heat treatment story—and don’t get me wrong, the quality is fantastic—but it left me wondering: is 15V really the best steel for the intended use of the Jimbo family?

I completely understand the appeal of offering every model in the steel du jour, but I love to dive into the nuance of selecting steels that are tailored to how a knife is intended to be used. For a design like the Yojimbo, something stainless with high toughness might be a more appropriate match for its intended role.

Personally, I’d be really interested in seeing a Yojimbo in a tough steel like CruWear (I know, not technically stainless), Magnacut, or even something more “basic” like AEB-L or 420HC—steels that prioritize durability over edge retention and not be as worried about breaking off the tip.

Curious to hear what others think. Could you be sold on the best steel for the intended use, or do you simply like what's trending at the time?

Totally my opinion but in general with "normal" use a folding 3"-4" knife in any steel should not see any major damage even on lower toughness steels. If you do see some edge damage on something like 15v then change you sharpening angle to 20dps or more.

Again, my understanding, you need to get to bigger fixed blades 5"-8"+/axes/etc where you might be batoning, chopping, digging, whatever ever to really appreciate a tough steel like 1095, 4v, etc. Being a lot bigger tool, with a lot more weight behind it the blade needs to be tough to deal with the amount of force.

There is only so much force you can generate with a "small" 3.5" folder due to it's size and if you do use it to that extent, it might just be abuse beyond the knifes design intentions.


Point being, in a folder, get any steel you want, they will all do a good enough job within reason in "normal" EDC use. Edge geometry can in general, compensate for your need of toughness or edge retention. Some extreme exceptions might be needing to skin large game without sharpening, then you need something like 15v, VG10 just won't last.

[benja-man]

I recently picked up the new 15V MicroJimbo.

I've considered the 15V MicroJimbo as a dedicated workbench knife for hard cutting tasks of all variety. There's someone on here who uses the MicroJimbo in a warehouse setting. I say: Don't bother what the knife was designed for and see what you need cutting, then decide on a model/steel combo that fits.

[Guts]

Maybe there will be a Crucarta Yo2 someday?

Didn't Sal or Eric mention they'd get around to making a Crucarta version of all the Golden models? I'd love a Crucarta Yojimbo as well.

That said, a 15V wharnie would make a heck of a utility knife. Admittedly the size of the Microjimbo puts it in 5th pocket/backup duty for me so I'd probably rarely even use it.

[aicolainen]

I’m with David on this one. Intended use and actual use doesn’t always match up.

Intended use tend to dictate my steel choice. If the base model is good enough, I’m fine with that.
But there’s some x-factors at play as well; If I’m trying out a new model it can make sense to wait for a sprint in a suitable steel, as they usually don’t cost much more but hold their value better and can be flipped with no to minimal loss.

Curiosity is another. If there’s a steel I’m curious about, I’d look for it to be released in model where that steel makes sense to me.

If I was in the market for a micro jimbo it would be 100% intended for utility work, and 15V would be like Christmas in June. YMMV.

[Midnightrider]

I carry either a P4 in K390 or a Military in S110V all the time. The main duties are opening and then cutting up boxes, and opening various indestructible plastic packages for electronic goodies, food etc. But I like knowing these knives won't let me down if it hit the fan.

That said, I have a happily increasing number of Militarys in the drawer whenever I can get them in interesting steels.

I'm not interested in most of the other models so it's nice to have versions in various steels and with different scales.

[vivi]

: is 15V really the best steel for the intended use of the Jimbo family?

No.

A lot of Spyderco releases, in my opinion, don't match the steel with the intended use very well.

[Naperville]

I bought a few S90V Spyderco Native Chiefs. I own most of the Spyderco Native Chief models, and many duplicates. S90V is a little less tough than 15V, but edge hold on 15V is better.

I have never drawn blood or slashed or thrust at anyone. I have drawn my knife a few times and it got me out of jams.

I've trained in around 5 Filipino knife martial arts. I am not even a guro, that would take 3 to 5 years of continuous training.
The martial arts that I have dabbled in teach and expect you not to strike first, which creates openings when the perp moves. That is what I have defaulted to, and when they saw the knife, they left me alone.

My entire take on knife steels is that you will not know what steel to use until one fails on you when using a steel, then you might say, "I wish it had been tougher" or "I wish it had more edge holding" or "I wish it had been serrated." I always default to using a harder, higher edge holding steel. I envision a planned attack, possibly coordinated with up to 2 accomplices, and the perps are wearing several layers to cut through, which will dull the blade significantly on each thrust or slash. If they are wearing thick leather, or a Winter coat and three heavy long sleeve shirts, I need one heck of a blade steel.

A blade that is less than 12 inches long, is meant for soft tissue, not steel on steel blocks/defenses. So it does not have to be as tough as a Roman sword.

I do not typically carry the weapons that 80% of my training is in, that being a 28 inch bladed weapon. Getting a 4 inch blade on a perp is very hard but when they come in to attack they make it easier. Yet, no matter what they wear, a good offensive weapon has to get through the materials they have on. There are many tricks, such as Largo Mano that allow me to remain outside of one attack if my timing is precise.

YES, many have died from lesser steels than anything offered by Spyderco. I think most if not all of the steels offered by Spyderco would do for self defense, but I have not tested them, so some may be better than others. I just play on a hunch.

MagnaMax may be a game changer for self defense blade steels, have to wait and see.

MY TRAINING

This is not me. This is GM Angel Cabales, and I learned some of this art from several different instructors, I could do all of these strikes and defenses, but I was no GM Angel Cabales.

[Rob-F]

The videos are interesting! I might watch them more, later. I'd like to see more discussion on the topic of blade steels for intended uses. Even such ordinary tasks such as opening envelopes without tearing the paper have a place in the discussion (I favor a very sharp blade with a straight edge, or at least not too much belly). Pruning my rosebushes, removing spent blossoms--sure, I have pairs of clippers; but they are seldom on me when I spot something that needs to be removed (I do have a Victorinox Swiss Army Knife with a pruning blade).

What's the best steel for cutting up Amazon boxes?

It's pretty clear that for my uses I need a steel that stays sharp and slices well. Cruwear is good. CPM S30V or S35VN are not bad. ZDP189. CTS XHP. M390. All with a thin, high flat grind. I have all that; but every so often I seem to need/want another Spyderco.

I like to use a Spyderco to eat with, too.

How about you?

[Danke]

Thin, stays sharp.



Plays well with food.

[Coastal]

Curious to hear what others think. Could you be sold on the best steel for the intended use, or do you simply like what's trending at the time?

To be honest, the only steels I've been sold on specifically for intended use are the Salt series. I live in a humid locale, sweat a lot outdoors, and do some saltwater fishing, so H1/H2, LC200N and MagnaCut are obvious and worthy choices.

The only trending steels I've pursued are 15V because of the BBB HT connection, and to some extent SPY-27 because it's a Spyderco exclusive material. Other steels I've acquired either because of the knives they're available in or because I want to try something different.

[standy99]

Would buy every knife I have in M4 if I could. Being a ex-butcher I have never found it hard to sharpen (like the pseudo knife influencer has created as an urban myth) and just love the steel.

To me it is just the knife and the variety of styles.

Reading above it is only H1 I have sought out for specific steel.

[Danke]

Lots of M4 out here.

[ykspydiefan]

I agree with both sides. Not all steels match up to the platforms intended purpose.

And, I did buy the Waterway and Catcherman because of the steel. I would agree that Spy27 was hype at my time of purchase, but it is also a good EDC steel in a good EDC Para 3 platform, so kinda both.

And, sure I collect steel, the Mule Team is a thing. But, I am using steel for purpose. I will baton the Aeb-l at any second, have even done stupid stuff to show off and prove a point. I will not do that with SRS13/SUS404.

Its a good topic since there are lots of examples of matches/mismatches/collections and users.

[Brock O Lee]

I try to "keep things real" for the most part, and steer clear of models that are offered in steels that don't seem to fit the design purpose of the model.

For instance, I will likely never buy a Damascus Endura, but own a few K390 Endura's.

The "Jimbos" in 15V don't make much sense to me. However, it might float someone else's boat, and that is just fine.

[zuludelta]

I’ve been looking to add both a Microjimbo and a Yojimbo to my stable. I recently picked up the new 15V MicroJimbo. I was sold on the BBB heat treatment story—and don’t get me wrong, the quality is fantastic—but it left me wondering: is 15V really the best steel for the intended use of the Jimbo family?

I completely understand the appeal of offering every model in the steel du jour, but I love to dive into the nuance of selecting steels that are tailored to how a knife is intended to be used. For a design like the Yojimbo, something stainless with high toughness might be a more appropriate match for its intended role.

Personally, I’d be really interested in seeing a Yojimbo in a tough steel like CruWear (I know, not technically stainless), Magnacut, or even something more “basic” like AEB-L or 420HC—steels that prioritize durability over edge retention and not be as worried about breaking off the tip.

Curious to hear what others think. Could you be sold on the best steel for the intended use, or do you simply like what's trending at the time?

I get what you're saying, and I agree to an extent. When the Siren Sprint Run in S90V came out a few years ago, I was all like, "b- b- but S90V isn't a 'Salt' steel!" But after a few moments, I got over myself and thought, heck, if people want to experience the Siren design in S90V (which is still a stainless steel, by the way), then more power to them.

I think it's worthwhile to consider emergent use vis-à-vis designer intent. That is, when a purpose-driven knife design is released to the larger public, it may find utility in areas and contexts that weren't major considerations when the designer was originally developing the knife. It is possible that these areas and contexts may even overshadow the original design premise of the knife, at least in terms of why most people buy the knife. This may merit subsequent variants in different blade steels and materials, so that the design can further fulfill its potential and find a larger user base.

The Yojimbo 2 (and its YoJumbo and MicroJimbo cousins) is a prime example. It is designed as an SD tool and it is with that use in mind that I originally purchased one many years ago. But over the years, I, along with many others, have found that it also makes for a great utility cutter. Now personally, I find the standard model's S30V to be a perfectly good steel, a decent all-rounder. But if there is a viable market out there for a Sprint Run in 15V, I don't see it as doing the design a disservice for Spyderco to serve that niche. Many (if not most) people who are interested in purchasing a Yojimbo 2/Yojumbo/MicroJimbo are probably going to use them in a non-SD utility context anyway, where 15V's relative lack of toughness isn't as much of a concern and its extreme edge retention will only further enhance its utility.

(As an aside, I don't consider 15V to be lacking in toughness for folding knife use, even for SD scenarios. It has as much toughness as 154CM according to Dr. Larrin Thomas's steel ratings charts, and 154CM—and its Japanese counterpart ATS-34—has been used for "tactical knives" for years, most famously by Emerson Knives.)