CPM 15v Manix 2

[SteveMidwest]

Did I miss a memo somewhere?

A Reddit user has just recently done a scale swap with his new LW Manix 2 15V, and found a black ceramic ball bearing inside.

I remember hearing about this becoming a possibility, before the Manix 2 Salt was going to be produced. I never heard that this was going to possibly be the default going forward?

I am going to open mine up soon, and look inside, but, I pre-ordered this LW 15V at two different Dealers, and ended up getting two of them (by accident). The one I have put to use already, has an assembly Date code of FY, and my now extra still unused LW 15V has a Code of AY. I really don't want to take the still new one apart, because I am going to sell it back off now. Do we think that opening up my now used FY and finding a black ceramic ball bearing inside, really tells us for sure that the AY's were also all this way?

Now to be clear, I am all for ceramic ball bearings, so that is not an issue with me. I just find it hard to believe that as close of attention as I pay to all of this, that somehow this slipped by me ahead of time.

Has Spyderco made any public statement about this?

I can't quite recall the source, but I do remember reading, or hearing that the Manix was updating rolling changes/CQI to include the ceramic ball for the lock. Might have initially been an off-hand comment posted by our own Michael Janich, or perhaps a mention at one of the shows from Eric himself. This was 2023 (earliest), or 2024 (most likely). Hard to pinpoint for certain, time has been moving blurrily fast these past 5 years, for me.

Thank you for that info weeping minora. As I mentioned earlier, the only talk I remembered reading, was ahead of the Salt Manix 2 LW. I only then thought if it did happen, it would only be for the Salt LW. Maybe that once the ceramic ball bearings were in house, and installed on the Salt LW knives, that Spyderco loved them so much, it then became a CQI item. It's odd though, that we didn't get more info ahead of time, and there is no mention of ceramic or CQI on Spyderco's current listing page for this 15V LW.
Maybe Sal will chime-in on this a little later?

[w3tnz]

There was a video interview from shot show or blade show a couple of years ago where Eric said they were transitioning to ceramic for both ball bearing locks and detent balls.

[weeping minora]

Did I miss a memo somewhere?

A Reddit user has just recently done a scale swap with his new LW Manix 2 15V, and found a black ceramic ball bearing inside.

I remember hearing about this becoming a possibility, before the Manix 2 Salt was going to be produced. I never heard that this was going to possibly be the default going forward?

I am going to open mine up soon, and look inside, but, I pre-ordered this LW 15V at two different Dealers, and ended up getting two of them (by accident). The one I have put to use already, has an assembly Date code of FY, and my now extra still unused LW 15V has a Code of AY. I really don't want to take the still new one apart, because I am going to sell it back off now. Do we think that opening up my now used FY and finding a black ceramic ball bearing inside, really tells us for sure that the AY's were also all this way?

Now to be clear, I am all for ceramic ball bearings, so that is not an issue with me. I just find it hard to believe that as close of attention as I pay to all of this, that somehow this slipped by me ahead of time.

Has Spyderco made any public statement about this?

I can't quite recall the source, but I do remember reading, or hearing that the Manix was updating rolling changes/CQI to include the ceramic ball for the lock. Might have initially been an off-hand comment posted by our own Michael Janich, or perhaps a mention at one of the shows from Eric himself. This was 2023 (earliest), or 2024 (most likely). Hard to pinpoint for certain, time has been moving blurrily fast these past 5 years, for me.

Thank you for that info weeping minora. As I mentioned earlier, the only talk I remembered reading, was ahead of the Salt Manix 2 LW. I only then thought if it did happen, it would only be for the Salt LW. Maybe that once the ceramic ball bearings were in house, and installed on the Salt LW knives, that Spyderco loved them so much, it then became a CQI item. It's odd though, that we didn't get more info ahead of time, and there is no mention of ceramic or CQI on Spyderco's current listing page for this 15V LW.
Maybe Sal will chime-in on this a little later?

From my understanding, CQI changes are typicaly not outright 'announcements', it's just a rolling change that happens, usually with a mere verbal confimation, or if outright inquired. The screw construction for the Manix was a huge request by the people, so that saw greater announcement upon implementation. That's been my experience regarding CQI installations.

[SteveMidwest]

Thank you w3tnz, I was sure I had seen all of the videos too though, but I must have missed it somehow. If you ever run across that video again, please let us know here.

I'm sure you're right, weeping minora. Just a CQI change that has gone unnoticed until now, and unannounced.
Not much if any talk about the ceramic ball bearing here after the Salt, in the forum. I still say that's a bit odd. Even a Spyderco Forum keyword search here today, comes up with nothing.

Spyderco makes no mention either on their listing pages of LW's, now having screw construction either. So it is all pretty low-key. Maybe they'll sneak in a deep-carry wire pocket clip on the Manix 2 lightweights for us next?

[RustyIron]

From my understanding, CQI changes are typicaly not outright 'announcements', it's just a rolling change that happens,

Considering human psychology, it's sometimes better to just shut up about subtle improvements. Half the people will be angry that the previous version was inferior. Half will think that the new version is flawed. And the other half will be alerted to changes and start looking for imaginary flaws. In my experience, if people are happy, let them continue being happy, do your work int he background, and do NOT kick any hornet's nests.

[w3tnz]

Thank you w3tnz, I was sure I had seen all of the videos too though, but I must have missed it somehow. If you ever run across that video again, please let us know here.

Here is a mention from 2025 shot show

[MOPs_Overlord]

Weird. When I opened mine, flashed a light in the handle and pulled back the cage, I was able to see a silver/metallic ball sticking out of the black cage. I was curious about this, and checked right when the knife showed up about a week ago. I've already gone and purchased a ceramic ball from Flytanium, to swap out the metal one. It should be delivered tomorrow.

Either I'm seeing things and just wasted a few bucks, or some are different. Hopefully @sal chimes in.

[weeping minora]

@SteveMidwest

Ok, here we go; from late last year (December 2024):

Hey, All:

The change to the ceramic ball will apply to all new production of Ball Bearing Lock and caged Ball Bearing Lock knives. That occurs on a SKU-by-SKU basis as old stock is sold out and new stock replenishes it. We also have no visibility on what dealers and distributors currently have on their shelves.

Stay safe,

Mike

From this thread: viewtopic.php?t=97402

[Brock O Lee]

Considering human psychology, it's sometimes better to just shut up about subtle improvements. Half the people will be angry that the previous version was inferior. Half will think that the new version is flawed. And the other half will be alerted to changes and start looking for imaginary flaws. In my experience, if people are happy, let them continue being happy, do your work int he background, and do NOT kick any hornet's nests.

Wise words...

You forgot to mention that the 4th half would be happy about the change! I'm in that camp.

[SteveMidwest]

Thank you very much for finding and sharing the video, w3tnz

You're right of course, RustyIron, but at least this time no one can go buy another version!
I'm guilty of selling off my nearly new Kapara, once the new CQI version came out. Yet everyone was happy in the end. The buyer got a great deal on a lightly used knife, and I got the CQI Kapara. Which is simply a fantastic knife, and stays in my short list of Sunday carry knife rotation, and likely will forever.

Thank you very much for digging that out, weeping minora. If I had only left out Manix 2 LW in my keyword search here, I might have found it?

Again, for the record. I am all for the new CQI ceramic caged ball bearing!

[RustyIron]

You forgot to mention that the 4th half would be happy about the change! I'm in that camp.

I'm in the 5th half regarding the ceramic ball: ambivalent. I can't tell the difference by looking at them, and they seem identical in use. But I trust that the boys and girls at Spyderco are interested in making the best knives possible, and they also have more experience than me. If they want to use black balls, I'm good with that.

[Brock O Lee]

...I can't tell the difference by looking at them, and they seem identical in use...

According to AI:

"Ceramic balls offer several advantages in applications like knife ball bearings, offering smoother action, reduced friction, and increased durability. They can also improve resistance to corrosion and wear, potentially extending the lifespan of components."

I think resistance to corrosion is probably the most practical benefit here, and perhaps to reduce potential lock stick? My guess is that this change was introduced for the Manix LW Salt version, and then rolled out to the whole range to standardise the production process.

Another practical use case for hard ceramic is for detent balls in ball detent-based locks. They have a tendency to wear down and flatten over time as they ride on a hard carbide-rich blade tang. Switching to ceramic is more durable than steel.

[SteveMidwest]

Weird. When I opened mine, flashed a light in the handle and pulled back the cage, I was able to see a silver/metallic ball sticking out of the black cage. I was curious about this, and checked right when the knife showed up about a week ago. I've already gone and purchased a ceramic ball from Flytanium, to swap out the metal one. It should be delivered tomorrow.

Either I'm seeing things and just wasted a few bucks, or some are different. Hopefully @sal chimes in.

I thought I was seeing the same thing @MOPs_Overlord when I first looked down into mine. It's just so darn shiny and reflective. Even with lower levels of light, it's hard to tell. Then I grabbed another, much older Manix 2 LW, and then looked down inside there with both knives side by side, and then it became apparent that the ball bearing in the 15V LW is darker.

[mikestp]

and perhaps to reduce potential lock stick?

Purely anecdotal, I never noticed much difference swapping to ceramic on a Manix, It did make a difference on the dodo. Maybe the bigger ball is more prone to lockstick, or its more noticeable due to not having the traction benefits of the cage?

[Mage7]

Another practical use case for hard ceramic is for detent balls in ball detent-based locks. They have a tendency to wear down and flatten over time as they ride on a hard carbide-rich blade tang. Switching to ceramic is more durable than steel.

This is what I assumed the use in the CBBL for the 15V was for. Since it's not only very carbide rich, but very hard. But since the CBBL is supposed to compensate for wear over time that may not make sense? I suppose that depends on if it's meant to compensate both for wear of the bearing as well as the knife parts it interfaces.