I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

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Larrin
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I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby Larrin » Fri May 01, 2020 6:26 am

Recently I was able to acquire a used CATRA machine, so I heat treated just about every knife steel I had, made 57 knives with the help of knifemaker Shawn Houston, and tested them all to see which cut the longest. For a few of the steels I did multiple heat treatments to look at a couple variables and to see the effect of hardness. I also compared edge retention and toughness to see which steels have the best balance of properties. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/ ... fe-steels/
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby Wartstein » Fri May 01, 2020 6:34 am

Looking very much forward to reading the article when I get home tonight, thanx!
Just had a quick look now: Did I see right that both BD1N and LC200N have less edge retention than VG10?!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby Larrin » Fri May 01, 2020 6:36 am

Wartstein wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 6:34 am
Looking very much forward to reading the article when I get home tonight, thanx!
Just had a quick look now: Did I see right that both BD1N and LC200N have less edge retention than VG10?!
Is that surprising?
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives

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Enactive
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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby Enactive » Fri May 01, 2020 6:38 am

Once again, excellent work! Thank you, Larrin, for your dedication... and to your wife for whatever patience she has left. :D

I've just started an initial reading and looking forward to spending more time digesting it. :cool:

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby elena86 » Fri May 01, 2020 6:54 am

Once again my beloved CPM-Cruwear proved itself ... that's why I love this steel...almost perfect balance of properties ... and decent corrosion resistence.
Marius

" A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it " ( Rabindranath Tagore )

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby JuPaul » Fri May 01, 2020 7:09 am

Larrin wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 6:36 am
Wartstein wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 6:34 am
Looking very much forward to reading the article when I get home tonight, thanx!
Just had a quick look now: Did I see right that both BD1N and LC200N have less edge retention than VG10?!
Is that surprising?
Wow, it is surprising to me. I've only seen the typical non-scientific rope cut youtube testing, but I think most people ranked both bd1n and lc roughly in between vg-10 and s30v in terms of edge retention. Very interesting- can't wait to read the article. Thanks for undertaking this massive project, Larrin!
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

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Larrin
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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby Larrin » Fri May 01, 2020 7:12 am

JuPaul wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 7:09 am
Wow, it is surprising to me. I've only seen the typical non-scientific rope cut youtube testing, but I think most people ranked both bd1n and lc roughly in between vg-10 and s30v in terms of edge retention. Very interesting- can't wait to read the article. Thanks for undertaking this massive project, Larrin!
OK that's surprising. BD1N only has ~0.90% carbon plus a little nitrogen, and doesn't have any vanadium. I don't know how it would be testing much above VG10 at equivalent hardness and edge geometry.
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby tonijedi » Fri May 01, 2020 7:15 am

Thanks for the article.
Still missing H1, that rare bird that makes a big part in Spyderco's offerings and loved by many, knifenuts or not.

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby The Mastiff » Fri May 01, 2020 7:17 am

Thank you Larrin and Shawn also. Larrin , thanks for keeping it very readable for guys like me. What an amazing amount of work the article represents. Please consider editing together a book using your articles.

Joe

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby Larrin » Fri May 01, 2020 7:25 am

The Mastiff wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 7:17 am
Thank you Larrin and Shawn also. Larrin , thanks for keeping it very readable for guys like me. What an amazing amount of work the article represents. Please consider editing together a book using your articles.

Joe
I have a draft written of a book. It will probably take at least a couple months before it is ready to go, however.
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby Larrin » Fri May 01, 2020 7:26 am

tonijedi wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 7:15 am
Thanks for the article.
Still missing H1, that rare bird that makes a big part in Spyderco's offerings and loved by many, knifenuts or not.
I don't have access to any H1 flat stock to make into a knife.
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby JuPaul » Fri May 01, 2020 7:28 am

Larrin wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 7:12 am
JuPaul wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 7:09 am
Wow, it is surprising to me. I've only seen the typical non-scientific rope cut youtube testing, but I think most people ranked both bd1n and lc roughly in between vg-10 and s30v in terms of edge retention. Very interesting- can't wait to read the article. Thanks for undertaking this massive project, Larrin!
OK that's surprising. BD1N only has ~0.90% carbon plus a little nitrogen, and doesn't have any vanadium. I don't know how it would be testing much above VG10 at equivalent hardness and edge geometry.
Well that's almost certainly the issue with many youtube "tests" I'd think. The video that comes to mind is the Cedrick and Ada one comparing vg10, bd1n, and s30v. But he is using 3 different models (sharpened to the same angles), and of course there's no information about hardnesses.

https://youtu.be/7RvP4A1tGeU
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby Larrin » Fri May 01, 2020 7:31 am

JuPaul wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 7:28 am
Well that's almost certainly the issue with many youtube "tests" I'd think. The video that comes to mind is the Cedrick and Ada one comparing vg10, bd1n, and s30v. But he is using 3 different models (sharpened to the same angles), and of course there's no information about hardnesses.

https://youtu.be/7RvP4A1tGeU
I think Pete's tests are great, but as you said he is limited to what knife models he can obtain. I prefer to think of his tests as knife comparisons rather than steel comparisons.
http://www.KnifeSteelNerds.com - Steel Metallurgy topics related to knives

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby Albatross » Fri May 01, 2020 7:32 am

Very nice work Larrin and BBB! Thank you both.

A few interesting results stood out to me. S90V scoring higher than S110V is certainly something of a surprise. If they were run at equal hardness, within the safe range for S90V, I would expect to see more S90V fans.

CPM-M4 was lower than I expected as well, but then again, Rex45 isn't impressive, if it's at the same hardness as CPM-M4. The last "anomaly", was the separation between S90V and 204P. Most accounts put them as equals. This is quite a difference in retention. I like both steels, but have a clear preference for S90V. If any dealers are reading this, please comission more S90V exclusive runs! I know I've said it a lot before, and several others have too.

Tom Hosang Outdoors had many blades made for him, in several steels, at varying hardness levels, with various changes to the protocols. It was interesting to see the major differences brought about by simple protocol changes. This really gave some insight into what makes some high-hardness steels, less than optimal. Between his testing and yours, there is a lot of pertinent data to consider, before spending hard-earned money on these fancy steels.
Last edited by Albatross on Fri May 01, 2020 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby abbazaba » Fri May 01, 2020 7:35 am

This is amazing. Thank you!

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby Mushroom » Fri May 01, 2020 7:37 am

Still gotta finish but it's a great read so far! Thanks for all the work and effort put into this, Larrin!
- Nick

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby JuPaul » Fri May 01, 2020 7:38 am

Larrin wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 7:31 am
JuPaul wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 7:28 am
Well that's almost certainly the issue with many youtube "tests" I'd think. The video that comes to mind is the Cedrick and Ada one comparing vg10, bd1n, and s30v. But he is using 3 different models (sharpened to the same angles), and of course there's no information about hardnesses.

https://youtu.be/7RvP4A1tGeU
I think Pete's tests are great, but as you said he is limited to what knife models he can obtain. I prefer to think of his tests as knife comparisons rather than steel comparisons.
That makes sense. Looking at the hrc database on the forum here, there are numbers for the models he's using: vg10 endura at 57.9hrc, bd1n para3 lw at 60 hrc, and s30v amalgam at 60.7hrc. Seems like those numbers would explain why bd1n would outcut vg10 in Pete's test.
- Julia

"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S. Preston, Esq.

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby legOFwhat? » Fri May 01, 2020 7:44 am

Such a great article Larrin!
-Larry
Hebrews 13:6 So we may boldly say: “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?”

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby The Meat man » Fri May 01, 2020 7:45 am

This is such good stuff Larrin. Really appreciate the work you and Shawn have put into this and that you freely share it here!
- Connor

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Re: I Tested the Edge Retention of 48 Steels

Postby FK » Fri May 01, 2020 7:55 am

Thanks for your report Larrin.
My undergraduate work was in ME with minor in metallurgy, I have a fair idea of the time you dedicated to this report.
Plus rebuilding the CATRA machine,,, dedication.
Awaiting your book.

Regards,
FK


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