Behind the edge database!

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Evil D
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Behind the edge database!

Postby Evil D » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:40 pm

I would like to see a thread like this grow and have lots of measurements from all the common models, and if several people participate we can create averages to compensate for tolerances and perhaps even see if some sprints are ran thinner than others.

I will update this list as info is given, then start to average numbers as we get enough data. For consistency please try to stick to the measurement points that Sharp Guy outlined in post #17 below. Please only submit measurements taken from factory edged knives.


PLEASE MEASURE AND FORMAT AS SEEN IN THIS POST
viewtopic.php?p=1130365#p1130365





Updated 3/28/2020


Behind Edge / Spine / Blade Stock


Advocate - .023 / .116 / .117


Baby Horn Sprint - .014 / .080 / .090


Bradley Junction: 0.097” thick stock / 0.020” BTE,


Caly 3 HAP40 Sprint - .022 / .111 / .116
Caly 3.5 ZDP189 CF - .0225 / .107 / .116


Caribbean PE Leaf: Spine thickness: 3.42 mm/0.134” 0.44mm/0.017” BTE


Cat 440C - .020 / .096 / .102


Chaparral CF - .013 / .077 / .077
Chaparral LW - .0175 / .073 / .0775
Chaparral FRN: Stock: 0.079", Plunge: 0.019", Mid blade 0.019", Tip: 0.019"


Cricket Blue Nishijin - .015 / .078 / .0785


Delica V-TOKU 2 Sprint - .019 / .092 / .096
Delica Pakkawood-HAP40 KC Exc. - .017 / .086 / .096
Delica (FFG) - Blue - .028 / .096 / .096
Delica SNK Exclusive-Red G10/TiCN - .022 / .090 / .0965
Delica (FFG) - Orange - .028 / .096 / .096
Delica WC HAP40 Sprint - .020 / .091 / .096
Delica Bento Box Shop M390: Spine: 0.095" Edge thickness: 0.027"
Delica HAP40 Jazzlica: 0.018/0.018/0.016 stock thickness 0.096
Delica Super Gold : 0.018/0.018/0.018 stock thickness 0.096
Delica exclusive CPM Cru-wear: Stock thickness: 2.44 mm BTE: 0.025"


Dragonfly HAP40 - .019 / .096 / .096
Dragonfly Pakkawood-HAP40 KC Exc. - .020 / .0965 / .0965
Dragonfly VG10 - .020 / .096 / .096
Dragonfly Salt HB SE - .031 / .0965 / .0965
Dragonfly G10/VG10 - .020 / .096 / .096


Emphasis: Blade thickness - 0.118" Half inch from the tip - 0.026" (0.6604mm) Mid-blade - 0.025" (0.635mm), Half inch from the plunge grind - 0.024" (0.6096mm)



Endura HAP40: 2.70mm/0.106” spine, 0.55mm/0.023” BTE


Firefly - .024 / .118 / .118


Gayle Bradley 1 - .021 / .118 / .118


Kapara: 0.020/0.020/0.020 stock thickness 0.115
Kapara: Stock: 0.118", Plunge: 0.022", Mid blade 0.020", Tip: 0.022"



Ladybug ZDP-189 - .017 / .077 / .077


Lil Matriarch BBS Exc. - .023 / .0985 / .0985


Lil'Native backlock #1: 0.019/0.019/0.020 stock thickness 0.126
Lil'Native backlock #2: 0.021/0.020/0.022 stock thickness 0.126
Lil' Native SNK 4V: Blade stock thickness: .125" BTE: .022" avg



Manbug ZDP-189 - .019 / .094 / .098
Manbug HAP40 - .018 / .087 / .096
Manbug HAP40: Spine (in front of plunge line) 2.08mm/0.082” 0.40mm/0.015” BTE


Manix 2 G10/S30V - .023 / .116 / .125
Manix 2 52100 KW Exclusive - .024 / .120 / .125
Manix 2 LW BD1 Trans Blue - .024 / .124 / .125
Manix 2 LW S110V
Manix 2 LW BD1 Black - .026 / .125 / .125
Manix 2 LW XHP - .023 / .115 / .125
Manix 2 52100: 3.05mm/0.121” spine, 0.57mm/0.023” BTE
Manix 2 Brown XHP: 0.022/0.027/0.029 stock thickness 0.125
Manix 2 Blue g10 sprint: Stock: 0.125", Plunge: 0.025", Mid blade 0.032", Tip 0.037"


Mantra - .0175 / .116 / .118


McBee: Spine - .118", BTE - .030"


Military Lefty: 3.46mm/0.136” spine 0.58mm/0.022” BTE
Military Rex45: Spine - 0.140" BTE - 0.022"


Mule Team 26 PMA11: Spine - 0.114" BTE - 0.20"
Mule PMA11: 0.016/0.018/0.019 stock thickness 0.119


Native 5 G10 S35VN - .026 / .126 / .126
Native 5 2013 Forum - .022 / .126 / .126
Native 5 LW S35VN - .026 / .126 / .126
Native 5 LW 2015 Forum Knife- .026 / .125 / .1255
Native 5 40th Ann - .022 / .126 / .126


PM2 Blk/DLC - .0285 / .145 / .145
PM2 M390 DLT Exc. - .023 / .1405 / .145
PM2 Cruwear - .028 / .145 / .145
PM2 Cruwear: 3.48mm/0.137” spine, 0.54mm/0.022” BTE
PM2 M4/CF - .025 / .1435 / .1435
PM2 CRUWEAR - .025 / .1455 / .1455
PM2 Forum Knife 2018 S90V: Spine - 0.136" BTE - 0.021
PM2 Rex 45: 0.019/0.020/0.022 stock thickness 0.14
PM2 River's Edge Cutlery Exclusive (Coyote Brown G10, CPM 10V): BTE: 0.0236"
PM2 204P Knifeworks exclusive: Stock: 0.138", Plunge: 0.025", Mid blade: 0.022", Tip: 0.023"


Para 3 Rex 45: 0.018/0.019/0.018 stock thickness 0.145
Para 3 Cruwear Sprint - .0225 / .140 / .144
Para 3 - .025 / .145 / .145
Para 3 M390 BBS Exc. - .0235 / .143 / .145
Para 3 Maxamet: 3.53mm/0.139” spine, 0.54mm/0.021” BTE


Police 4 K390: Spine - 0.105" BTE - 0.023"
Police 4 K390: 0.110" stock 0.030"bte


Positron KC Exclusive - .016 / .117 / .117


Sage 1 - .020 / .111 / .117
Sage 2 - .0205 / .116 / .117
Sage 3 - .020 / .116 / .117
Sage 5 - .019 / .111 / .116


Shaman 4V: 0.144" spine 0.025" bte
Shaman Cruwear/Micarta: 0.026", 0.025", 0.024" bte
Shaman Cruwear/Micarta: 0.021/0.023/0.023 stock thickness 0.145


Sliverax


Stretch 2 G10 ZDP: 0.023/0.025/0.025 stock thickness 0.111
Stretch LW VG10 - .025 / .117 / .117
Stretch LW HAP40 - .023 / .109 / .1155


Swick (Original) 0.022/0.028/0.026 stock thickness 0.155


Urban K390 Sprint - .015 / .106 / .112
Urban K390: 2.75mm/0.109” spine, 0.35mm/0.015” BTE
Urban G10/VG10 - .031 / .112 / .118
Urban K390: Stock: 0.112", Plunge: 0.016", Mid blade 0.016", Tip: 0.017"


UKPK G10 S30V - .020 / .118 / .125
UKPK LW S110V


Waterway: 3.03mm/0.119" spine, 0.62mm/.023"
Waterway: .119" at the spine and .012" BTE .
Last edited by Evil D on Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:35 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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ZrowsN1s
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Re: Behind the edge measurements?

Postby ZrowsN1s » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:51 pm

Great idea! Wish I had a set of calipers so I could contribute.
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Re: Behind the edge measurements?

Postby Bodog » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:53 pm

Measurements should be kept to knives with factory edges. Just a little sharpening can make significant differences on flat grinds.

Good idea for a thread.

I'd like to add in spine thickness at the ricasso, too.
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Re: Behind the edge measurements?

Postby Evil D » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:00 pm

Good point about sharpening, at least nothing more than micro bevel sharpening. Unfortunately that makes most of my knives ineligible even if I had calipers. This Mantra just seems like the thinnest factory grind I've seen aside from the Nilakka.
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Re: Behind the edge measurements?

Postby ZrowsN1s » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:07 pm

Even thinner than a FFG Delica?
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Re: Behind the edge measurements?

Postby Evil D » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:31 pm

ZrowsN1s wrote:Even thinner than a FFG Delica?
I haven't owned one, but judging by how small the bevel is, and knowing the bevel has to be less than 40 inclusive since the 40 slot on my Sharpmaker is barely micro beveling it, I have to assume the grind is just super thin at the edge. It certainly looks thin. The best factory slicer I've had aside from the Nilakka was my Caly 3 and this seems thinner than that.
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Re: Behind the edge measurements?

Postby Bodog » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:04 pm

Evil D wrote:
ZrowsN1s wrote:Even thinner than a FFG Delica?
I haven't owned one, but judging by how small the bevel is, and knowing the bevel has to be less than 40 inclusive since the 40 slot on my Sharpmaker is barely micro beveling it, I have to assume the grind is just super thin at the edge. It certainly looks thin. The best factory slicer I've had aside from the Nilakka was my Caly 3 and this seems thinner than that.
Yeah man, my Mantra was pretty thin. I'd have to assume between .014 and .018. I measured my military multiple sharpenings ago and it was .021. But after sharpening a decent sized chip out of a blade I've seen it jump several thousandths soo...
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Re: Behind the edge database!

Postby Sharp Guy » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:12 pm

I have a micrometer and a dial caliper along with a bunch of knives that still have factory bevel (many with a microbevel added). Where would you like me to measure? With my Mantra, when I measure down near the ricasso I get .0175-.018. When I measure out closer to the tip I'm getting .021 .020. I'm thinking that, due to blade shape, closer to the ricasso would be better. Regardless of where you'd like me to measure I think it would be best to be consistent.

Mantra: .0175-.0180. Spine at ricasso: .118
Last edited by Sharp Guy on Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Behind the edge database!

Postby Evil D » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:22 pm

Sharp Guy wrote:I have a micrometer and a dial caliper along with a bunch of knives that still have factory bevel (many with a microbevel added). Where would you like me to measure? With my Mantra, when I measure down near the ricasso I get .0175-.018. When I measure out closer to the tip I'm getting .021. I'm thinking that, due to blade shape, closer to the ricasso would be better. Regardless of where you'd like me to measure I think it would be best to be consistent.

Mantra: .0175-.0180. Spine at ricasso: .118

Hmm...maybe measure ricasso/center/tip and average them? I would try to measure right at the shoulder of the bevel if possible.
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Re: Behind the edge database!

Postby Jazz » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:32 pm

I've noticed my Mantra has the thinnest behind the edge thickness of any Spydies I've seen or own. Quite nice.
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Re: Behind the edge database!

Postby Sharp Guy » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:03 pm

Evil D wrote:Hmm...maybe measure ricasso/center/tip and average them? I would try to measure right at the shoulder of the bevel if possible.
I'm measuring as close to the shoulder as possible using a micrometer under a medical magnifying light I have mounted to my workbench. I'm finding other knives also measure a little bit thicker behind the edge near the tip but not as much as the Mantra. For the sake of consistency I think I'm going to measure about 3/8" up from the ricasso.

Also, I double checked the tip of the Mantra and it's actually closer to .020. I'll edit my first post.
Last edited by Sharp Guy on Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Behind the edge measurements?

Postby Surfingringo » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:13 pm

Bodog wrote:
Evil D wrote:
ZrowsN1s wrote:Even thinner than a FFG Delica?
I haven't owned one, but judging by how small the bevel is, and knowing the bevel has to be less than 40 inclusive since the 40 slot on my Sharpmaker is barely micro beveling it, I have to assume the grind is just super thin at the edge. It certainly looks thin. The best factory slicer I've had aside from the Nilakka was my Caly 3 and this seems thinner than that.
Yeah man, my Mantra was pretty thin. I'd have to assume between .014 and .018. I measured my military multiple sharpenings ago and it was .021. But after sharpening a decent sized chip out of a blade I've seen it jump several thousandths soo...
Funny, I don't have any calipers at the moment but I'm pretty good at guessing based on look and feel and can usually get with a couple of thou. After reading the op I was going to estimate my mantra at .015-.018. :)

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Re: Behind the edge database!

Postby Sharp Guy » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:06 pm

I've already checked a whole bunch of knives. The "boss" told me I need to stop, eat dinner, and finish watching the movie we started last night. I'll add my results later.
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Re: Behind the edge database!

Postby dplafoll » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:54 pm

Evil D wrote:Anyone with a set of calipers feeling bored? I'm curious how thin the Mantra is among others, the bevel on this thing is tiny and it's not because it's a high angle bevel, at least it's lower than 40 inclusive.

I would like to see a thread like this grow and have lots of measurements from all the common models, and if several people participate we can create averages to compensate for tolerances and perhaps even see if some sprints are ran thinner than others.
You know, I was just stropping my Mantra and after having done some re-profile work earlier today, I was noticing this on my Mantra as well. But it slices like a boss, so I don't think it matters much.
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Re: Behind the edge database!

Postby Steel_Drake » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:08 pm

I can contribute measurements for my Spydiechef:

Spine: 0.113" at the plunge line, 0.109" in the middle, 0.034" at the tip

1/4" Behind the apex: ~0.032"-0.035"

1/32" Behind the apex (a standardized approximation of "at the shoulder to the edge"): ~0.015"

I have a Cruwear PM2 with a factory edge on it still, I'll measure that one tomorrow.

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Re: Behind the edge database!

Postby zeroed4x » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:36 pm

Great idea Evil D, I'll have to dig out my vernal calipers from God knows where.

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Re: Behind the edge database!

Postby Sharp Guy » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:35 am

Ok my homework is done for the night! This should give you a good start on your database.

These measurements were all taken with a Brown & Sharp micrometer with support from a B&S dial caliper. The accuracy of both measuring tools was confirmed with a .500 gauge/test block.

Measurements behind the edge were taken as close to the shoulder as possible by measuring under magnification. All measurements were double, triple, and, in some cases, even quadruple checked. Keep in mind that, even under magnification, measuring right at the shoulder can be difficult but I did the best I could to measure as accurately as possible. I'm human so my technique may not be perfect but the numbers are close. If anything, the actual measurement right at the shoulder might be .0005-.001 less than what I was seeing.

The measurements for behind the edge were taken approximately 3/8" in front of the ricasso. I did check several along the length of the blade and got pretty much the same measurements except a few were a actually a little thicker near the tip. Usually .001-.002" at most.

The measurement for spine thickness was taken right at the ricasso on the grind side.

The measurement for blade stock thickness was taken on the ricasso. When possible I measured in a spot where there were no markings.

All measurments are in inches and typically to three decimal places. I'd generally round up or down to the nearest mark. When the measurment fell in the middle of the marks I carried the measurement out to four decimal places. All knives measured have the factory edge or factory edge with a micro-bevel.

The format is as follows:

Behind Edge / Spine / Blade Stock

Mantra - .0175 / .116 / .118

Delica (FFG) - Blue - .028 / .096 / .096

Delica (FFG) - Orange - .028 / .096 / .096

Para 3 - .025 / .145 / .145

PM2 Blk/DLC - .0285 / .145 / .145

PM2 Cruwear - .028 / .145 / .145

Chaparral CF - .013 / .077 / .077

Dragonfly HAP40 - .019 / .096 / .096

Dragonfly VG10 - .020 / .096 / .096

Dragonfly G10/VG10 - .020 / .096 / .096

Native 5 G10 S35VN - .026 / .126 / .126

Native 5 2013 Forum - .022 / .126 / .126

Native 5 LW S35VN - .026 / .126 / .126

Native 5 LW 2015 Forum - .026 / .125 / .1255

Native 5 40th Ann - .022 / .126 / .126

Cricket Blue Nishijin - .015 / .078 / .0785

Manbug HAP40 - .018 / .087 / .096

Manbug ZDP-189 - .019 / .094 / .098

Ladybug ZDP-189 - .017 / .077 / .077

Cat 440C - .020 / .096 / .102

Urban G10/VG10 - .031 / .112 / .118

UKPK G10 S30V - .020 / .118 / .125

Sage 1 - .020 / .111 / .117

Sage 2 - .0205 / .116 / .117

Sage 3 - .020 / .116 / .117

Sage 5 - .019 / .111 / .116

Manix 2 G10/S30V - .023 / .116 / .125

Manix 2 LW BD1 Trans Blue - .024 / .124 / .125

Manix 2 LW BD1 Black - .026 / .125 / .125

Manix 2 LW XHP - .023 / .115 / .125

Gayle Bradley 1 - .021 / .118 / .118

Stretch LW VG10 - .025 / .117 / .117

Stretch LW HAP40 - .023 / .109 / .1155

Firefly - .024 / .118 / .118
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Re: Behind the edge database!

Postby Igi964 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:43 am

One of the best in this category is GB2. Mine was around 0,014

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Re: Behind the edge database!

Postby Evil D » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:02 am

Sharp Guy wrote: ....

Dang man great job! I'm going to copy all that into the first post and update it as people add info, and then start making averages once I get enough data.
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Re: Behind the edge database!

Postby bearfacedkiller » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:10 am

What about the fact that most of my Golden knives come at around 30 degrees and my Taichung knives come at 40 degrees (or sometimes more). I have had Japanese knives come in at well below 30 and above 40. I absolutely love the idea of this thread though. I am not trying to shoot the idea down but it would also be amazing if the edge angle was included too. I realize though that that is asking for a lot.
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