Spyderco ARK Proto

[bearfacedkiller]

I have decided to start a new thread because there seems to be a lot of chatter about this one. Here is my take on it copy and pasted from the other thread. Hopefully we can keep the other thread on track and not clog it up too much. I know we all get a little excited. :D

"I really hope the move from G10 to FRN on this model does not cause a significant increase in cost. Frn molds can be pricey and covering that cost depends on the volume produced and if this is not a high volume seller than more of the cost of that mold must be applied to each knife. Typically fixed blades can be somewhat slow sellers. Add H1 to the equation and these could end up not being a great value for me. I know it is H1 for a reason but I do not take showers with other people and I myself really do not need to carry a knife in the shower. I can find a reason to carry a knife almost anywhere but I just can't seem to find a reason to carry a knife in the shower.

Unfortunately these may be going in the same category as the Enuffs which is unfortunately just not a great value for me personally. Hopefully I am wrong because I love small fixed blades and if this was VG10 with G10 I would be all over it but plain edge H1 and frn will require some further thought. I will add that I do realize why it is H1 and frn based on the design concept but the optimist in me just really hopes that the market for an anti rape shower knife isn't that big. I think this has potential as a great EDC blade. We shall see. :D"

[PWork]

As a fan of small fixed blades and neck knives, I see a lot of utility potential in this one. While I would prefer VG-10, I can see the logic in H-1 for this one's intended use. It also makes sense since it would/could be carried concealed under clothing and next to skin where sweat could cause corrosion issues.
As far as blade shape, I would prefer the Spyderco Leaf. I haven't found a job that the leaf shape doesn't do well.

[gbelleh]

I'm not a fan of neck knives, or small fixed blades in general. Plus the design isn't attractive looking to me. But I hope it does well and is useful to many.

[MattM68]

I think I'll pick one of these up. :) I don't really mind that it's H1. H1 is just a trade-off to me, since it can't rust, it has lower edge retention. I would prefer a full tang G-10 construction, but either way, I still like the looks of it.

Matt

[FCM415]

Just my input on the FRN being discussed in Wouter's thread... I think it is a great move. It has better grip when wet, and FRN doesnt dry out like G10 when constantly dried out from being wet. It's designed to be worn 24/7 after all. I dont understand the moaning about how it should be G10. FRN is 100% the way to go for this application.

Im not interested in getting the knife but im tired of the FRN hate. It's tried and true in Glocks (hard plastics), it does just fine as a handle material. Geez.

[tvenuto]

As a fan of small fixed blades and neck knives, I see a lot of utility potential in this one. While I would prefer VG-10, I can see the logic in H-1 for this one's intended use. It also makes sense since it would/could be carried concealed under clothing and next to skin where sweat could cause corrosion issues.
As far as blade shape, I would prefer the Spyderco Leaf. I haven't found a job that the leaf shape doesn't do well.

Yes I would also prefer the leaf shape, however, given that the handle mold exists, I wouldn't think it too difficult to modify the blade shape and keep the tang the same for different versions in the future, even in different steels. The mold has to be insensitive to steel so I don't see why this couldn't be a possibility.

I'm with gbelleh, it's just not my thing, but it's a cool little knife and I hope people find it useful.

[sal]

Perhaps some history?

A problem was noted by soldiers that there was a problem with female soldiers in the showers. An even bigger problem in the Middle east for our soldiers deployed there. Someone came to us with the problem and we decided to work with them to create a solution. A number of designs were created and the designs discussed with the soldiers themselves as to preference. This design and product was the result of that project. One that we feel is worthwhile simnply because it may help our female troops in harm's way. It needed to be; functional, light, corrosion resistant and inexpensive, as soldiers would be buying them with their own funds. We really didn't have any other markets in mind other than the military female.

sal

[jmh58]

Perhaps some history?

A problem was noted by soldiers that there was a problem with female soldiers in the showers. An even bigger problem in the Middle east for our soldiers deployed there. Someone came to us with the problem and we decided to work with them to create a solution. A number of designs were created and the designs discussed with the soldiers themselves as to preference. This design and product was the result of that project. One that we feel is worthwhile simnply because it may help our female troops in harm's way. It needed to be; functional, light, corrosion resistant and inexpensive, as soldiers would be buying them with their own funds. We really didn't have any other markets in mind other than the military female.

sal

That is just way KOOL!! KUDOS Spyderco!! NICE!!! John :D

[LC Kid]

Hi Folks!

It needed to be; functional, light, corrosion resistant and inexpensive, as soldiers would be buying them with their own funds. We really didn't have any other markets in mind other than the military female.

sal

This is a fantastic note about this design. :)

Since last year when I saw the ARK 1.0 I really like the design, but for anything else but a SD blade. :rolleyes:

It looks to me like a fantastic short backup fixie, some utilitarian all around blade, which given it's size will actually be very NKP friendly. :D

[ManixFan]

Just my input on the FRN being discussed in Wouter's thread... I think it is a great move. It has better grip when wet, and FRN doesnt dry out like G10 when constantly dried out from being wet. It's designed to be worn 24/7 after all. I dont understand the moaning about how it should be G10. FRN is 100% the way to go for this application.

Im not interested in getting the knife but im tired of the FRN hate. It's tried and true in Glocks (hard plastics), it does just fine as a handle material. Geez.

As one of the "moaners" I will have to disagree completely with your characterization. If you like FRN then all the power to you but as a handle material any person that I've shown FRN to (yes I do have some as well :rolleyes: ) vs G10 - has always commented on how the FRN plastic looks cheap and not very aesthetically pleasing compared to G10.

In spite of that broad characterization, I do love my LtWt Manix 2 - both for the lightness in hand as well as the great colour choice which just fades into jeans just perfectly when clipped on with that amazing wire clip......and my HB Ladybug Salt is great too - for what it is. But both my G10 and Nishijin D'Flys blow away my SB in the "looks" department. When I have time I'll probably switch out the SB into the G10 version and do the same with my SB Stretch and my CF Stretch.

Aside from my Manix LtWt (and yes I may get the S110v Native 5 LtWt for the exact same reasons as I got the Manix) my only full sized FRN knives would be the BRG & SB variants of the Stretch........and I will also pick up the all black Pacific Salt SE as well as the all black SE AquaSalt as well when available. But the Stretches and the other future FRN's (except the Native5) will all be intended for very rough use, heavier work and use in poor environment. As an EDC that I would be carry in my pocket, aside from the Ladybug, Manix and Native 5 which are all intended for EDC carry when wearing shorts/trackpants in the summer, I would much prefer a much more aesthetically pleasing G10 or CF scaled blade. There is nothing wrong with having a preference for good looking knives that also perform well too.

I wouldn't characterize my preference or the preferences of others as "hate" and in my opinion that diminishes the validity of my opinion or that of other people who share my lack of interest in most FRN offereings. Feedback is just that and everyone's should always be welcomed. IMHO the new ARK doesn't hold a candle to the appearance of the proto which I thought looked amazing enough to want to purchase as a handy neck knife. My preference is exactly that......a preference.....and a valid one that is shared by many others. More FRN for the rest of you.....have at it! :)

So when I see a proto that is so gorgeous in appearance and then see that the appearance, in my opinion, has been ruined then I WILL be providing my legitimate feedback and I'm not really too concerned whether someone else shares my opinion or not......I don't base my opinion on the opinions of others :eek:

The same thing happened when the new Stretch was originally discussed as being CF scaled and then I later learned that it had changed to brown G10. I was not a happy camper at all.......yet I don't mind Coyote Brown (but not all variants) for other usages - like a backpack. If the suggested co-release or followup sprint in CF doesn't materialize then I'll buy a new version G10 Stretch sometime down the road and then change that ugly duckling to probably one of the nicest looking knives that I'll own by fitting contoured stabalized wood scales of some kind on the knife and I'm sure that it will be one of my favourite knives in the end. But I can't "fix" the redesigned ARK in the same way because of the FRN construction. So now I have to pass on a knife that I was previously looking forward to. I am also looking forward to the Intorvert, a very interesting knife that is basically a flding Perrin styled design.........please, oh pretty please, don't be switching that one to FRN either. At least not until a slabbed version is available for a while and both my bank account and the $CA has recovered. With the way the dollar is right now........the longer the wait for new Spyderco releases......the better. The US REALLY needs to drop their interest rates :confused: so that the dollar will drop and I can afford more Spyderco's :D .

Unless the change in design resulted in dramatic savings that results it getting it into the hands of those that might truly need it (and even then the Swick would be a far better option at $79 - just dry the knife after your shower :rolleyes:) then it was IMO it was pointless to screw around with such a nice looking knife. I would have paid $100 street price for the former ARK but if the new design is more than $40-$50 max then the Swick 4 is the way to go, (just add some G10 scales and your done).

Also, whether it is G10 or FRN - good luck trying to keep a hold of a slick and soapy handle barely three finger grip handle in a combat situation - whereas the Perrin hole of the Swick not only ensures a grip under when wet and soapy but also makes it much harder to be disarmed.

........and I can't resist this last one :D .......if you are looking at Glocks for an analogy......that is one UGLY gun!

Put a Glock beside a Sig 226 and there is no comparison....... aesthetically speaking. So yeah, you want to own an ugly gun that works very well - get a Glock. You want to own a beautiful gun that works very well - get a Sig 226. Oh wait a minute - this is a knife Forum and I live in Canada - so my opinion on guns can't be valid either

P.S. Did anyone at the Amsterdam Meet see a buffed carbon fiber new version Stretch that was suggested by Sal as a potential co-release?
:eek: :D :) :spyder: :spyder: :spyder:

[PWork]

Thank you Sal for the back story on the ARK. I seem to remember reading that before. I think this knife will find acceptance beyond it's targeted market.

[bearfacedkiller]

In regards to the three finger grip it does in fact have a decent choil and a lanyard hole so the grip should be adequate.

Manixfan, you seem concerned about the aesthetics of this knife but the design of this knife is very much function over form. Spyderco makes many beautiful and classy folders, many nice looking functional folders and many pure users. They make a little something for everybody, this one just isn't for you. Thankfully they make knives you do like. Just keep enjoying your Swick.

If other people telling you frn looks like cheap plastic bothers you my advice would be to care less about what others think, especially about something they are unfamiliar with. Maybe educate them if they are accepting of it. No one has ever told me my Delica looks cheap and quite the contrary. I have sold quite a few for Spyderco by simply saying nothing and letting somebody use my Delica.

I goes without saying that anything is possible. I am sure you could get that molded handle off if you wanted to bad enough and then add your own. Hard to say what it would take or what the mounting holes available are.

I love frn but thought that it usually added cost unless the volume was high. If it does not add cost then I am all for it.

[yowzer]

As far as blade shape, I would prefer the Spyderco Leaf. I haven't found a job that the leaf shape doesn't do well.

If it catches on, hopefully Spyderco will do something like CRKT did with the Minimalist - start with one blade shape, and add a few more later on down the road. You want leaf, I want wharncliffe... a small fixed blade hawkbill would be nice too. With serrations, of course, to get the full power of H1.

has always commented on how the FRN plastic looks cheap and not very aesthetically pleasing compared to G10.

G10 can be made aesthetically pleasing - see Bark River for many examples, but Spyderco's never done much along the lines of making it look nice. A monochrome slab of peel ply is boring and ugly. BiDi FRN is at least visually interesting, and feels better in the my hand.

[jul]

1. love the design and the FRN/H1 combo
2. does a G-clip fit to the sheath?

[FCM415]

Again, for the specific application the Ark was created for, FRN makes a **** of a lot more sense. It is meant to be worn 24/7 on the neck... On duty through sweat, in the SHOWER, wherever it stays on your person. FRN's volcano grip will be superior to the peel ply G10 in terms of grip when wet. Back to the knife being constantly wet, again, FRN will stay true to form day in and day out while peel ply G10 will dry out and fade.

My post was not meant to attack a preference... But facts are facts here and my post meant to point out why FRN was chosen...It wasn't meant to "cheapify" the knife...I'm fully aware that everyone is entitled to their own opinion/preference but this concern that it went to FRN instead of G10 is purely an aesthetic concern. How valid anyone's opinion on this is pretty irrelevant to the point I was making. If anyone feels that I made their opinion less valid with my post...Grow some ball hairs...

I recall seeing the original proto in G10 and it's just regular ol flat black peel ply G10..It's laughable to me how arguments here are pumping it up as "elegant" and how saddened they are that a military girl's neck knife is less so because it is now in FRN. I definitely own more G10 than FRN knives in my collection so don't think for a second that I'm "hating" on G10 :rolleyes: But yes... FRN gets trashed on constantly on the forums and having nothing but positive experiences with my so called ugly plastic handled guns and knives...I will post a rebuttal and defend it. Every time.

[bearfacedkiller]

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

John Lydgate

[Stuart Ackerman]

One folks handle and test this blade in the shower...or wash dishes in real soapy water, and see how the FRN grips, maybe a paradigm shift will take place?
I will be getting a couple, but not for the intent of the design answer...

[tvenuto]

One folks handle and test this blade in the shower...

I think this might be where my wife puts her foot down? "Headed to the shower to test out some knives, honey. Wanna join?" Huge Spyderco FRN fan here, think they do an awesome job with it. Glad Sal chimed in with the design back story.

[tvenuto]

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

John Lydgate

"Manixfans posts are too long for all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time."

-Tvenuto

[gbelleh]

I happen to like the look of bidirectional FRN and polymer guns. No one's opinion about aesthetics is absolute.

What looks cheap to one, might look efficient and purposeful to another.