Any chance Spyderco will come out with Talonite or Stellite blade?
Any chance Spyderco will come out with Talonite or Stellite blade?
Those of us around salt water are big into corrosion proof materials. Plus, I hear these materials develop microserrations that help with cutting rope, time and time again. They don't hold a razor edge, and aren't as tough as steel, but everything's a trade-off.
Hi SailorMan. Welcome to the Spyderco forum.
We have been dealing with the corrossion problem for a while now. We do "Q-fog" testing to determine the "heirarchy" of corossion resistance. Talonite, like other cobalt based materials do not rust at all which is a very nice feature. On the other hand, Talonite is very expensive and Camillus has an exclusive on the material for production knives. Stellite is similar, but likewise very expensive for production.
There are some new sintered Titanium materials that resist corrossion well, but require very thin edges for edge retention. Good for kitchen knives but questionable for "work knives.
We have found another steel that is good and we're also currently working with David Boye's "Dendritic Cobalt", which is a cast material.
We haven't forgotten the salt water (My wife, Gail, and I sail and scuba dive). We haven't selected a direction yet.
hope that helps.
sal
We have been dealing with the corrossion problem for a while now. We do "Q-fog" testing to determine the "heirarchy" of corossion resistance. Talonite, like other cobalt based materials do not rust at all which is a very nice feature. On the other hand, Talonite is very expensive and Camillus has an exclusive on the material for production knives. Stellite is similar, but likewise very expensive for production.
There are some new sintered Titanium materials that resist corrossion well, but require very thin edges for edge retention. Good for kitchen knives but questionable for "work knives.
We have found another steel that is good and we're also currently working with David Boye's "Dendritic Cobalt", which is a cast material.
We haven't forgotten the salt water (My wife, Gail, and I sail and scuba dive). We haven't selected a direction yet.
hope that helps.
sal
Sal, thanks for responding. I think you're right: titanium won't work for a working knife. I don't know "Q fog" from a duck's ***, but my experience with a Delica in a warm, marine environment is that stainless stains only a little less. That's no insult to your knife -- I see it on every piece of stainless down here, regardless of alloy. That's just what happens to ferrite alloys in warm salt air.
Many people I know would LOVE a dendritic cobalt version of the Delica. It may not develop a razor edge, but I'm more interested in how it cuts the 10th line for the day, than for shaving. I've looked at Boye's knives. Frankly, I think Spyderco's designs are more utilitarian. When you do venture in this direction, make sure all the little pieces are also cobalt, otherwise they'll rust even though the blade doesn't. If you post here for volunteers to test your prototypes, I'll jump at the chance.
And, yes, Boye's knives are pretty. So far, though, I've been hard pressed to find anything that beat my Delica for everyday use. Well, it went walk-about, so now I need a new knife. And I would love one that doesn't corrode.
Many people I know would LOVE a dendritic cobalt version of the Delica. It may not develop a razor edge, but I'm more interested in how it cuts the 10th line for the day, than for shaving. I've looked at Boye's knives. Frankly, I think Spyderco's designs are more utilitarian. When you do venture in this direction, make sure all the little pieces are also cobalt, otherwise they'll rust even though the blade doesn't. If you post here for volunteers to test your prototypes, I'll jump at the chance.
And, yes, Boye's knives are pretty. So far, though, I've been hard pressed to find anything that beat my Delica for everyday use. Well, it went walk-about, so now I need a new knife. And I would love one that doesn't corrode.
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John F Jensen
- Member
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Bonita, CA USA
Sailorman,
I distribute both Spyderco and David Boye. I mention this to give you an idea of my experience. While I am not technical nor with all wisdom, I can speak of Dentritic Cobalt from personal experience as well as my dealers and customer experiences.
Dendritic Cobalt sharpens to an extremly razor sharp edge and retains that edge quite well. Plus it is probably the easiest to sharpen of all the knife metals I have used.
Whenever I fly I take my Dendritic Cobalt "Eagle Wing" folder because it does not alet the airport guards.
Whenever I am in a poor climate condition including frequent ocean fishing and elk hunting in rain for days, I take my Dendritic Cobalt Basic 3 fixed blade. I have left both the folder and the fixed blade unattended for days and have not seen a sign of corrosion, etc.
I have a doctor friend who is an avid hunter. He wanted a unique knife so I suggested the David Boye cobalt folder. On an elk hunt with two other doctors he was assigned "boning" chore but didn't want to get the apporpiate knife out of his duffel. He used his cobalt folder (3" blade) and proceeded to bone out three Rocky Mountain elk. That before the third elk was done, the knife began to show signs of dulling. That is, it began to drag, but not enough to stop and sharpen it, he did all three elk with that David Boye folder. He told me that it is by far one of the best knives he has used hunting.
I am not trying to sell you, only to point out that I beleive Sal is on the right track regarding using David's cast cobalt.
Plus I have a big interest. I only distribute Spyderco, David Boye and Chris Reeve knives. I have been distributing Spyderco since 1991 and they are by far my main and prime items. I would dearly love to see a Spyderco with dendritic cobalt.
If only the cobalt was available when Sal introduced the diver knife and Probes.
JOHN F JENSEN
"Your Quality Distributor"
619-475-3633
johnfjensen@home.com
I distribute both Spyderco and David Boye. I mention this to give you an idea of my experience. While I am not technical nor with all wisdom, I can speak of Dentritic Cobalt from personal experience as well as my dealers and customer experiences.
Dendritic Cobalt sharpens to an extremly razor sharp edge and retains that edge quite well. Plus it is probably the easiest to sharpen of all the knife metals I have used.
Whenever I fly I take my Dendritic Cobalt "Eagle Wing" folder because it does not alet the airport guards.
Whenever I am in a poor climate condition including frequent ocean fishing and elk hunting in rain for days, I take my Dendritic Cobalt Basic 3 fixed blade. I have left both the folder and the fixed blade unattended for days and have not seen a sign of corrosion, etc.
I have a doctor friend who is an avid hunter. He wanted a unique knife so I suggested the David Boye cobalt folder. On an elk hunt with two other doctors he was assigned "boning" chore but didn't want to get the apporpiate knife out of his duffel. He used his cobalt folder (3" blade) and proceeded to bone out three Rocky Mountain elk. That before the third elk was done, the knife began to show signs of dulling. That is, it began to drag, but not enough to stop and sharpen it, he did all three elk with that David Boye folder. He told me that it is by far one of the best knives he has used hunting.
I am not trying to sell you, only to point out that I beleive Sal is on the right track regarding using David's cast cobalt.
Plus I have a big interest. I only distribute Spyderco, David Boye and Chris Reeve knives. I have been distributing Spyderco since 1991 and they are by far my main and prime items. I would dearly love to see a Spyderco with dendritic cobalt.
If only the cobalt was available when Sal introduced the diver knife and Probes.
JOHN F JENSEN
"Your Quality Distributor"
619-475-3633
johnfjensen@home.com
Sal, my girlfriend and I sail on the Texas coast. I carried my Delica as an everyday knife. For this, I prefer something not too bulky, with a plain edge less than 2.8", to prevent nasty surprises at airport security gates. Most boats have a larger, fixed-blade knife near the cockpit, and a rigging knife in the rigging kit. Somehow, though, it is one's everyday knife that ends up used the most, for everything from cutting fruit to trimming a dock line.
I wouldn't want a marlinspike on my everyday knife. These aren't used often, typically when splicing, and then the rigging kit is at hand. But I used the shackle key on the Delica all the time. What? You didn't know the Delica had a shackle key. Well .. most shackle bits fit nicely into the slot of the handle where the blade opens. This abused the knife terribly, and once or twice put a dent in the handle material. Sorry about that. Maybe that's why my Delica left me .. it was looking for easier work, elsewhere.
The Spyderco knives that I'm looking at to replace my Delica are either another Delica, a Native, or a Calypso. The latter tempts me because it has both significant choils AND a thumb push. A knife can never have too secure a grip. My ideal everyday knife would be one of these, with the lightweight handle, a dendrite Cobalt blade, no ferrous metal anywhere, a shackle key, and a lanyard hole. Where do I send my check?
I wouldn't want a marlinspike on my everyday knife. These aren't used often, typically when splicing, and then the rigging kit is at hand. But I used the shackle key on the Delica all the time. What? You didn't know the Delica had a shackle key. Well .. most shackle bits fit nicely into the slot of the handle where the blade opens. This abused the knife terribly, and once or twice put a dent in the handle material. Sorry about that. Maybe that's why my Delica left me .. it was looking for easier work, elsewhere.
The Spyderco knives that I'm looking at to replace my Delica are either another Delica, a Native, or a Calypso. The latter tempts me because it has both significant choils AND a thumb push. A knife can never have too secure a grip. My ideal everyday knife would be one of these, with the lightweight handle, a dendrite Cobalt blade, no ferrous metal anywhere, a shackle key, and a lanyard hole. Where do I send my check?
Hi Sal, Spydiefolk, Im fairly new to the knife trade, got impressed by Gerber and hooked by Spyderco, just a question which may be stupid and already in practice.
What about aluminum(hope I spelt it right,lol) and aircraft aluminum, since it doesnt rust, is quite strong and very light.
What ya guys think, once again Sal, Im still recovering from seeing not only the spyderco employees been so active with the public but the man himself.
Well done Sal, may you and your company go on forever.
Youve won my support for life.
Seeya
MaNcEr
It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
What about aluminum(hope I spelt it right,lol) and aircraft aluminum, since it doesnt rust, is quite strong and very light.
What ya guys think, once again Sal, Im still recovering from seeing not only the spyderco employees been so active with the public but the man himself.
Well done Sal, may you and your company go on forever.
Youve won my support for life.
Seeya
MaNcEr
It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
Aluminum isn't hard enough to make a good knife. It is used a lot in the marine environment because of its light weight and corrosion resistance, in the right alloys. But it's a relatively soft metal. Common aluminum alloys can be cut with normal woodworking tools. Try that on a piece of steel, and you'll have saw teeth flying everywhere. The common structural steels are also too soft to make a good knife, which is why knife builders focus more on the "tool" steels or other special alloys.
SailorMan. I use my Delica and Calypso jr (FRN) as a shackle key the same way. I shouldn't say this, but more often, I use the pivot end so I don't have to open the knife. But I've got a small boat so the shackles aren't too severe on the pivot.
Thanx for the input...so far. What size shackle key? What shape blade? How large of a lanyard hole?
sal
Thanx for the input...so far. What size shackle key? What shape blade? How large of a lanyard hole?
sal
Sal,
When using the knive as a shackle key, I also use the pivot end. Most likely, I'd stab myself if I tried to do this with the blade open. If a knife has a shackle key, it shouldn't require exposing the blade to use it. Some knives have them in the blade, but I wouldn't want to give up the large opening hole, which I can use even in gloves.
Key size? Hmmm .. I'd say large enough for the U-shackles commonly used with 1/2" or 9/16" running rigging on boats up to 40 feet. Don't worry about the bigger, galvanized shackles used on ground tackle. Those get stuck so tight they need a pair of pliers, anyway.
This knife should be carried tip up. After reading the responses in the "Tip up or down" thead, I tried the drop open and it works well. But on a pitching boat, I want to reach in my pocket, grab the handle as I will hold the knife, pull it out, and swing it open with my thumb, all done deliberately rather than quickly.
I don't know much about blade shapes. The Delica works fine by me, for most things I do. Grind the edge however is best for line. Will Technora and other exotic fibers hurt the cobalt blade? I cut them all the time with my Delica. (Yet more confessions of knife abuse!)
The lanyard hole doesn't need to be big. The knife won't weigh much, and every boat has a broad variety of small stuff. On the other hand, if the lanyard hole is big enough to take a small 'biner, that would give me a better way of attaching the knife to my safety harness. I haven't seen one of your Clipits, so I can't say whether than would work. But don't let the shackle key and lanyard hole drive the design. Make it a good simple tool, rather than an egg-laying milk pig. Give it good choils and thumb push. Everything is more difficult at sea. You've been there, so you know what I mean.
I am really looking forward to this new knife. If you need yet someone else to test a prototype, let me know.
When using the knive as a shackle key, I also use the pivot end. Most likely, I'd stab myself if I tried to do this with the blade open. If a knife has a shackle key, it shouldn't require exposing the blade to use it. Some knives have them in the blade, but I wouldn't want to give up the large opening hole, which I can use even in gloves.
Key size? Hmmm .. I'd say large enough for the U-shackles commonly used with 1/2" or 9/16" running rigging on boats up to 40 feet. Don't worry about the bigger, galvanized shackles used on ground tackle. Those get stuck so tight they need a pair of pliers, anyway.
This knife should be carried tip up. After reading the responses in the "Tip up or down" thead, I tried the drop open and it works well. But on a pitching boat, I want to reach in my pocket, grab the handle as I will hold the knife, pull it out, and swing it open with my thumb, all done deliberately rather than quickly.
I don't know much about blade shapes. The Delica works fine by me, for most things I do. Grind the edge however is best for line. Will Technora and other exotic fibers hurt the cobalt blade? I cut them all the time with my Delica. (Yet more confessions of knife abuse!)
The lanyard hole doesn't need to be big. The knife won't weigh much, and every boat has a broad variety of small stuff. On the other hand, if the lanyard hole is big enough to take a small 'biner, that would give me a better way of attaching the knife to my safety harness. I haven't seen one of your Clipits, so I can't say whether than would work. But don't let the shackle key and lanyard hole drive the design. Make it a good simple tool, rather than an egg-laying milk pig. Give it good choils and thumb push. Everything is more difficult at sea. You've been there, so you know what I mean.
I am really looking forward to this new knife. If you need yet someone else to test a prototype, let me know.
Sal, I meant that "I hadn't seen one of your SNAPITS," of course. My girlfriend thinks the best thing would be a lanyard hole through which a special snap or hook is fit. She wants both options.
Matt, a shackle is a line terminal designed to open and attach to something else. Typically, this is a jaw with bar across it. The bar can be released and closed, to attch the line to a sail, bail, or deck fitting. The bar twists or unscrews. There is a tab on the end of the bar designed to be unscrewed, but it often resists hand force after it has been closed for a long period. A shackle key is just a slot in a tool that can be used around the tab to give a little more leverage than bare fingers. There are lots of variations. I prefer ones where the bar is permanently trapped, since like all things on a boat, once loose it tends to jump overboard. (Until you've experienced this, it is hard to believe the affinity inanimate objects have for the deep.)
Some expensive shackles are have latched hinges, instead of bars. They don't take keys. Supposedly, they are easier to open by hand, by slipping your finger through a hole in the base and squeezing the body into your fist. I think they're a pain in the butt.
Matt, a shackle is a line terminal designed to open and attach to something else. Typically, this is a jaw with bar across it. The bar can be released and closed, to attch the line to a sail, bail, or deck fitting. The bar twists or unscrews. There is a tab on the end of the bar designed to be unscrewed, but it often resists hand force after it has been closed for a long period. A shackle key is just a slot in a tool that can be used around the tab to give a little more leverage than bare fingers. There are lots of variations. I prefer ones where the bar is permanently trapped, since like all things on a boat, once loose it tends to jump overboard. (Until you've experienced this, it is hard to believe the affinity inanimate objects have for the deep.)
Some expensive shackles are have latched hinges, instead of bars. They don't take keys. Supposedly, they are easier to open by hand, by slipping your finger through a hole in the base and squeezing the body into your fist. I think they're a pain in the butt.