Non-Edged Defensive Options

[Scandi Grind]

I've been looking around at tools that can be used for defense if need be, are easy to EDC, and don't have sharpened edges. One of the things I've been interested for a while is a marlin spike, like this one from Toor.

I have a knot tying hobby, so it would be a pretty natural thing for me to carry around. I was interested in the idea of metal pens that could be used as a kubaton, but it seems like a little more bulk than necessary and for the prices I see, the quality on "tactical pens" seems really hit and miss. I don't know how the law veiws something like a marlin spike outside of my state, but I don't travel much anyway. I've also considered an actual kubaton, and a bit ago I ran into a fake permenant marker that had a G 10 spike in it. This thing is super cheap, so probably worth having one.

This is something that I found recently that I was intriqued by, basically a push dagger shaped slab of metal without edges. You end up with almost a hybrid of brass knuckles and a push dagger. I've taken to calling the idea a punch dagger.

It only weighs 3 oz. which is pretty cool, seems like a simple force focuser when throwing punches. I do wonder if you could do away with the blade shape of the striking piece though, just make it more of a tapered bar, then you end up with something like a screw driver head poking out of your fingers. I don't see the blade shape being particularly useful on this design. I'm thinking of asking a knife maker I know about making something similar for me.

I'd like to hear what non-edged devensive tools others like or think are good options.

[RustyIron]

Here's a couple non-edged defensive weapons that I think are pretty good options.

[Scandi Grind]

Yeah, those would have to be the best non-edged weapons you could carry, wouldn't they. Not exactly what I was thinking though...

Mmmm, I like the Wilson Combat grip on your P365. I'm thinking about getting a P320 and putting a Wilson Combat grip frame on it.

[Naperville]

Recently purchased:

1 - Bawidamann Sugar Shiv and leather belt holder
2 - Sharpie, G10 Super Awl: Black, Red (revenantcorps.com)
3 - Sharpie, G10 Awl: Black, Red, Blue (revenantcorps.com)
2 - 5.11 Tactical Kubaton Tactical Pen, Orange Aluminum

[riclaw]

I was interested in the idea of metal pens that could be used as a kubaton, but it seems like a little more bulk than necessary and for the prices I see, the quality on "tactical pens" seems really hit and miss. I don't know how the law veiws something like a marlin spike outside of my state, but I don't travel much anyway. I've also considered an actual kubaton, and a bit ago I ran into a fake permenant marker that had a G 10 spike in it. This thing is super cheap, so probably worth having one.

I'd like to hear what non-edged devensive tools others like or think are good options.

Well, how 'bout a good old fashioned No. 2?
https://vzgrips.com/products/vz-no-2-ta ... ellow.html

[mikey177]

I carry a flashlight and a thick Sharpie marker.

[MacLaren]

I've been looking around at tools that can be used for defense if need be, are easy to EDC, and don't have sharpened edges. One of the things I've been interested for a while is a marlin spike, like this one from Toor.

image.png

I have a knot tying hobby, so it would be a pretty natural thing for me to carry around. I was interested in the idea of metal pens that could be used as a kubaton, but it seems like a little more bulk than necessary and for the prices I see, the quality on "tactical pens" seems really hit and miss. I don't know how the law veiws something like a marlin spike outside of my state, but I don't travel much anyway. I've also considered an actual kubaton, and a bit ago I ran into a fake permenant marker that had a G 10 spike in it. This thing is super cheap, so probably worth having one.

image.png

This is something that I found recently that I was intriqued by, basically a push dagger shaped slab of metal without edges. You end up with almost a hybrid of brass knuckles and a push dagger. I've taken to calling the idea a punch dagger.

image.png

It only weighs 3 oz. which is pretty cool, seems like a simple force focuser when throwing punches. I do wonder if you could do away with the blade shape of the striking piece though, just make it more of a tapered bar, then you end up with something like a screw driver head poking out of your fingers. I don't see the blade shape being particularly useful on this design. I'm thinking of asking a knife maker I know about making something similar for me.

I'd like to hear what non-edged devensive tools others like or think are good options.

I've had this thing for a little while now.
Never hit a thing with it, lol -pretty silly thing to have I guess but, it might do some damage if it's all a man had
(Pay no attention to the knife)

[RustyIron]

Not exactly what I was thinking though...

Yeah, I kind of suspected as much. But to be serious about it, for me, those types of weapons don't seem to provide substantial value. I have a couple pens, a Gerber and a Hinderer. They were mostly for writing and novelty back in the days when I needed to carry a pen. I think my hands and feet are far more effective tools, and it seems that trying to wield a teeny-tiny pokey-stick would put me at a disadvantage.

[James Y]

I think some of those tools can be effective if you already know how to fight for real without weapons. The big caveat with these devices is that they are purposely designed as weapons. So if you use one on somebody in legitimate self-defense, with the current anti-self-defense climate (which coddles criminals and condemns law-abiding citizens) in a lot of countries and states, YOU will likely get into more trouble than the attacker will for targeting and attacking you in the first place.

I'm not saying don't use one if you need to legitimately defend yourself or your loved ones. I'm just putting that out there.

Jim

[Scandi Grind]

I think some of those tools can be effective if you already know how to fight for real without weapons. The big caveat with these devices is that they are purposely designed as weapons. So if you use one on somebody in legitimate self-defense, with the current anti-self-defense climate (which coddles criminals and condemns law-abiding citizens) in a lot of countries and states, YOU will likely get into more trouble than the attacker will for targeting and attacking you in the first place.

I'm not saying don't use one if you need to legitimately defend yourself or your loved ones. I'm just putting that out there.

Jim

Unfortunately very accurate observations. I've have lived in some of the best states for most of my life when it comes to laws on self defense, but most of the country's average legal attitude on the topic should be somewhat baffling to any thinking person. There was this huge concern about foreign terrorism after 9:11, but I don't see how stimulating domestic terrorism by stiffling self defense doesn't concern more people. When you can get in more trouble by stoping someone from hurting you than you do by trying to go out and hurt someone, you know something is very twisted. Luckily where I live, there is a much smaller chance of that being a problem.

[Naperville]

I forgot. I also purchased Bawidamann brass knuckles.

The home is where I am 99% of the time and that is where almost all of these tools are and will be. I might carry the Sharpies and 5.11 pens. I carry NOTHING even close to illegal outside the home at the moment because the times do not call for it where I currently live.

I also have self defense insurance from U.S. LawShield (www.uslawshield.com). I decided to pay for this because I have been charged for self defense before in Chicago. Where you are when you defend yourself, how you speak to police/judges, will depend on if you are charged and found innocent/guilty.

[Naperville]

I think some of those tools can be effective if you already know how to fight for real without weapons. The big caveat with these devices is that they are purposely designed as weapons. So if you use one on somebody in legitimate self-defense, with the current anti-self-defense climate (which coddles criminals and condemns law-abiding citizens) in a lot of countries and states, YOU will likely get into more trouble than the attacker will for targeting and attacking you in the first place.

I'm not saying don't use one if you need to legitimately defend yourself or your loved ones. I'm just putting that out there.

Jim

Unfortunately very accurate observations. I've have lived in some of the best states for most of my life when it comes to laws on self defense, but most of the country's average legal attitude on the topic should be somewhat baffling to any thinking person. There was this huge concern about foreign terrorism after 9:11, but I don't see how stimulating domestic terrorism by stiffling self defense doesn't concern more people. When you can get in more trouble by stoping someone from hurting you than you do by trying to go out and hurt someone, you know something is very twisted. Luckily where I live, there is a much smaller chance of that being a problem.

What I have found is self defense is not cut and dry and involves more than the FACTS of what actually transpired.

The political makeup of the county where a self defense event takes place is hard left, liberal, conservative, hard right?

The way that you choose to defend yourself can best be described as amateurish? Aggressive? You are an expert? Was anyone injured and what are the extent of the injuries?

How many opponents / attackers there are that you are trying to defend yourself from?

What tools / weapons you choose to use for self defense? Even though is clearly says, "NO LAWS" shall restrict the right to self defense or the 2nd Amendment, there must be 100,000 laws on the books that ignore your rights.

Do you have an arrest record, and which county the court cases were adjudicated in?

Your sex, your skin color, your political makeup, and what everyone was wearing at the time of the assault / robbery / etc.

What happened during the situation? Were there any aggravating circumstances?

Is there anyone wealthy or hooked up, a cops son / daughter, the mayor's son / daughter, impoverished, ...

Do you have a court appointed lawyer defending you? A hired lawyer? A specialized self defense lawyer?


Your best bet is STAY HOME.

[ZrowsN1s]

A good plain look ti pen. Black jack/ sap.

During covid, these door opener/ button pusher things became popular. I found a couple heavy brass ones that make great kubatons. And you can claim to be a germaphobe . I've got a G-10 one from Black Triangle that will pass metal detectors too. I like it because it's blunt and shaped like a door opener tool. So no getting charged with Undetectable Knife or concealed fixed blade here in CA.

If neither of those things are laws where your at Black Triangle Makes some great G-10 tools.

[Mage7]

What about pepperspray?

[Scandi Grind]

I could never figure out if pepper spray was worth having on hand. I guess like everything else self defense related there are endless opinions encompasing every extreme. I saw a guy who thought the first viable air gun for self defense was a two shot contraption that fired pepper spray type balls that burst on impact. Gives you more range than usual, but I wasn't sure what to think of that design either.

[zuludelta]

I could never figure out if pepper spray was worth having on hand.

I guess it depends on what threats you expect to realistically encounter in your area. I have a friend who is an avid hiker & camper & she never heads out without bearspray. Many wildlife/outdoors organizations and government agencies stand behind the effectiveness of bear spray against bears. According to a US Fish & Wildlife Service fact sheet, bear spray is more effective than a firearm in repelling a bear attack (over 50% of documented cases where a firearm was used to repel a bear attack resulted in the user getting injured or worse, while there was a 90% success rate of repelling a bear attack in the documented cases of bear spray use). A 2008 study published in the Journal of Wildlife Management found similar data: out of 83 bear attacks reported in Alaska between 1985 and 2006, red pepper spray stopped aggressive behaviour in 92% of brown bear incidents, 90% of black bear incidents, and 100% of polar bear incidents.

As to how effective pepper spray/bear spray is against human attackers, the data seems to trend in the same direction although it is less definitive, I think. A National Institutes of Justice report found that the introduction of pepper spray in North Carolina resulted in a decline in reported police officer injuries in encounters with uncooperative/combative suspects, but the sources of data are a bit messy (different police departments had different reporting & record-keeping practices at the time).

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Without mentioning politics, keeping it to ethic moral philosophical etc, what led to this vast change in Western society that swung things from governing powers coddling the predatory criminal and persecuting the self defending citizen, when as long as crime exists things should be the ither way? The predatory criminal should be punished and executed and the self defending citizen should be protected and supported.
I do believe in redemption but ONLY for those who want to stop the evil and make change.

By Western I mean USA and Western European based society. Are any of you on here able to tell us how self defense works in non western societies?

People from Eastern Europe and other places told me that as long as the criminal is not from the local good old boys or persons of wealth and power, their govts side with the defender not the attacker.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

A good plain look ti pen. Black jack/ sap.

During covid, these door opener/ button pusher things became popular. I found a couple heavy brass ones that make great kubatons. And you can claim to be a germaphobe . I've got a G-10 one from Black Triangle that will pass metal detectors too. I like it because it's blunt and shaped like a door opener tool. So no getting charged with Undetectable Knife or concealed fixed blade here in CA.

If neither of those things are laws where your at Black Triangle Makes some great G-10 tools.

Could those hard brass and copper door openers hurt the users hand if used for defense? I also dont like germs. I constantly use alcohol sanitizer. A friend who is into all natural told me that weakens our health. Is that true or fake?

[shunsui]

Pepper Gel recommended to me by LEO

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GVSHG61

[Naperville]

A good plain look ti pen. Black jack/ sap.

During covid, these door opener/ button pusher things became popular. I found a couple heavy brass ones that make great kubatons. And you can claim to be a germaphobe . I've got a G-10 one from Black Triangle that will pass metal detectors too. I like it because it's blunt and shaped like a door opener tool. So no getting charged with Undetectable Knife or concealed fixed blade here in CA.

If neither of those things are laws where your at Black Triangle Makes some great G-10 tools.

Could those hard brass and copper door openers hurt the users hand if used for defense? I also dont like germs. I constantly use alcohol sanitizer. A friend who is into all natural told me that weakens our health. Is that true or fake?

I was just at the hospital and outside and inside every room are hand sanitizers. Most of the staff use them ALL of the time.

I think that they work, but bugs evolve.

Hospitals have many ways that they decontaminate large rooms, hallways and the air system...yet they still have bugs that can survive everything they throw at them.

Selling these sanitization systems must be a money making business.