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Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 2:18 am
by ZrowsN1s
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Dang Turbo, those look great! Seeing Matt's issues with his knife has really put doing the same to my H1 SE Dragonfly on the back burner. I really just want to round the tips a bit so their not so catchy though, so likely wouldn't be taking off as much steel as you guys have been.
bbturbodad wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 11:57 am
ZrowsN1s wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 10:36 am
My latest attempt to reprofile my SE Hawkbill Dfly resulted in an edge that is about as close to a plain edge as you can get while still technically being serrated.
It's not a hawkbill but for some reason reprofiling this Dfly took forever.
My Rock Jumper went much quicker.
See his teeth look much more serrated. That's what I had in mind. I obviously made a mistake dragging the serrations across the stones too much.
I think on my next SE sharpening job I will try to keep the reprofiling to an absolute minimum.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 10:42 pm
by Haunted House
My next knife will be a Salt 2 serrated, I just can’t decide if I want the normal blade shape or the Wharncliffe.
Big fan of wharncliffes in general but not sure if it’s the ideal shape for a serrated edge.
Thoughts? Which would you get?
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 2:14 am
by Evil D
Haunted House wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 10:42 pm
My next knife will be a Salt 2 serrated, I just can’t decide if I want the normal blade shape or the Wharncliffe.
Big fan of wharncliffes in general but not sure if it’s the ideal shape for a serrated edge.
Thoughts? Which would you get?
D8138A93-C506-410F-B058-5B5EC2641EA0.jpeg
D186697A-DBB6-4257-8EED-9A4EA278BF92.jpeg
I would say a wharnie actually is about the ideal shape for serrations, because serrations are really good at pull cuts and the more leverage you can get in a cut from the shape or angle of the blade the more powerful it cuts. But, I'd also argue that the Delica/Salt is IMO a sort of modified wharncliffe/sheepsfoot anyway, it has very little belly and the tip to me is more of a sheepsfoot than anything else. You'll have a bit easier time cutting against a flat surface with the standard blade shape but I bet the two are similar in most cuts until you really start focusing the work on the tip and that's where the wharnie may have either an advantage or a disadvantage depending on the situation (cutting board for example).
Is this your first serrated knife? If you already like wharnies then you know what to expect from using the blade shape so that shouldn't be much of a surprise. I think overall the biggest difference here is that the wharnie has a sharper tip, and if I were buying the standard blade shape I'd most likely reprofile the spine down to a sharper point and I think I'd go that route because I like the slight belly for that small bit of extra versatility while still being a good pull cutter.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 10:56 am
by Haunted House
Evil D wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 2:14 am
Haunted House wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 10:42 pm
My next knife will be a Salt 2 serrated, I just can’t decide if I want the normal blade shape or the Wharncliffe.
Big fan of wharncliffes in general but not sure if it’s the ideal shape for a serrated edge.
Thoughts? Which would you get?
D8138A93-C506-410F-B058-5B5EC2641EA0.jpeg
D186697A-DBB6-4257-8EED-9A4EA278BF92.jpeg
I would say a wharnie actually is about the ideal shape for serrations, because serrations are really good at pull cuts and the more leverage you can get in a cut from the shape or angle of the blade the more powerful it cuts. But, I'd also argue that the Delica/Salt is IMO a sort of modified wharncliffe/sheepsfoot anyway, it has very little belly and the tip to me is more of a sheepsfoot than anything else. You'll have a bit easier time cutting against a flat surface with the standard blade shape but I bet the two are similar in most cuts until you really start focusing the work on the tip and that's where the wharnie may have either an advantage or a disadvantage depending on the situation (cutting board for example).
Is this your first serrated knife? If you already like wharnies then you know what to expect from using the blade shape so that shouldn't be much of a surprise. I think overall the biggest difference here is that the wharnie has a sharper tip, and if I were buying the standard blade shape I'd most likely reprofile the spine down to a sharper point and I think I'd go that route because I like the slight belly for that small bit of extra versatility while still being a good pull cutter.
Thanks David, I appreciate such a well written response. That gives me a lot to think about.
This is my first full serrated pocket knife but I’ve carried and sworn by partially-serrated knifes most of my adult life.
I should’ve stated in my initial post, but this knife will mainly be my kayaking/fishing/around the water knife, with some general outdoor use as well.
I imagine most cutting will be done in the air/not pressed against a surface, but it will probably see both eventually.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 10:59 am
by Haunted House
*error, Delete
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 11:00 am
by Haunted House
*Double post, delete
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 11:02 am
by Haunted House
*Triple post, dang computer is acting wonky. Delete
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 1:25 pm
by Haunted House
Update: I went ahead and ordered the Salt 2 serrated lc200n in standard blade shape.
I figured since it’ll primarily be used in slippery environments like kayaking, boating and around water, it makes sense to get the version with the less-pointy/stabby tip. Just seems a bit safer.
I can see myself getting the serrated wharncliffe version too, just because. I’ll probably wait and see if there is a Magnacut version coming.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:45 am
by cabfrank
I just thought I would share this pic of a Pac Salt 2, and a much older Salt 1 SE, for whatever it's worth.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:46 am
by cabfrank
The Pac Salt is on the bottom. The serrations are much shallower.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:46 am
by Bill1170
cabfrank wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:45 am
20220531_023810.jpgI just thought I would share this pic of a Pac Salt 2, and a much older Salt 1 SE, for whatever it's worth.
The points on the Pacific Salt 2 (the bottom blade in the pic) are less pointy/slightly rounded compared to the Salt 1 above it. Many of us find that minor change to be an improvement for our cutting needs. Less tearing, more slicing.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:36 pm
by cabfrank
Yeah, I just thought I would show a comparison of how different they can be. I suppose the Salt 1 will get there eventually. They both cut extremely well though.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:24 pm
by sethwm
I think I might be a convert. I just got a ladybug SE hawkbill that is serrated perfectly. My dragonfly is my other most used serrated, and I have really disliked it. Snagfest. I also have a serrated endela, but that mainly goes camping with us to cut food and haven't really seen it snag.
I'm going to get some diamond rods and see if I can't turn the dragonfly into something nicer. Any videos on doing this?
Dragonfly (top) versus Ladybug (bottom):
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:44 pm
by sethwm
I find the snagginess of both of these ladybugs to be similar (low snag). What's interesting is that the leaf blade definitely has pointier teeth, but equally shallow ridges, which seems to matter a lot here.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:47 pm
by Wartstein
Haunted House wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 10:42 pm
My next knife will be a Salt 2 serrated, I just can’t decide if I want the normal blade shape or the Wharncliffe.
Big fan of wharncliffes in general but not sure if it’s the ideal shape for a serrated edge.
Thoughts? Which would you get?
D8138A93-C506-410F-B058-5B5EC2641EA0.jpeg
D186697A-DBB6-4257-8EED-9A4EA278BF92.jpeg
I had to make the same decision and went with the "normal" blade shape.
Did not regret it, for what I use the Salt 2 SE for I want that stouter tip (it is still pointier than it might look - due to the thin stock, and the chisel grind that also makes the very tip more acute than the tip on the PE version).
/ Just realized: Your post is more than a month old, so perhaps you´ve already decided yet? If so, what did you choose?
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:27 am
by Blerv
Yea, I’m interested what Haunted ended up with :)
Spyderco has some wild blade shapes. Belly isn’t always “efficient” in a knife but it adds versatility. A modern leaf/spear/drop point can do almost anything even with teeth.
If you are measuring performance strictly with material cut per static pull or push those more specialized blades do much better, especially if serrated or your tasks are aligned with their design.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:59 pm
by sethwm
Ok so here's my progress with my dragonfly. I spent about 2 hours on the cbn rods on the sharpmaker, 15 degrees per side. I used barely any pressure, just enough pressure to make sure the blade was in constant contact. I moved back and forth to get both sides of the serrations. After the cbn rods I spent maybe 5 minutes each on the browns and fine. Same pressure.
I also spent a little bit of time running the knife perpendicular to the flat surface of the rods to round the serrations. Same like pressure. Probably spent 3-5 minutes total on that activity on the diamond rods. Do others do that? or just do the normal sharpening to round the serration points?
I think I probably still have a ways to go... some of the photos on here have reprofiled far more than I have. That said, the performance is night and day better. This went from my worst knife which snagged on everything (which I kept for sentimental reasons because it was my first), to something that glides through cardboard, glides through plastic bottles, glides through paper. I didn't know serrations could be this good.
Before:
After:
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:37 am
by cabfrank
It looks like a great cutter. You used the flats instead of the corners to round off the serrations? Is that better?
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:54 am
by sethwm
Not sure if that’s better or not. Just what I did. But I rubbed the points onto the flat perpendicular, like the flat were a cutting board. Light pressure.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:43 pm
by cabfrank
I got it, thanks.