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Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:22 pm
by sok
This is a very informative poll for me. I took about four years off from the knife buying and research game. During this time, I used and contemplated the knives and steels that I had accumulated.
I am not surprised by some people liking Cruwear, but I am surprised that it has become as popular as it has. I know I tend to get tunnel vision on my own biases and interests and when I would see the Cruwear rah rah group, I assumed it was just a vocal minority.
After seeing this poll, I went to eBay and searched “Spyderco Cruwear”. I was surprised at how many Cruwear special runs were produced during my absence and realized there was a deeper reason for the Cruwear love.
I have owned a Cruwear Military since it first came out, but I don’t carry a Military a ton and when I do it has been the Smurf Blue S90V version. I need to get myself a Cruwear knife that I would actually carry and use to check it out better. I would love the Para 3 variant, but man they are proud of it. I think my next purchase will be the Native. I have always wanted to try one and it would also let me check out smooth G10.
After saying all of that, I voted K390. That is what I would personally want. I think that the best choice for a base model would actually need to be stainless. So I think that 20CV would probably be the best choice for Spyderco to use if production costs were competitive with S30V or S45VN.
Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:40 pm
by vivi
steelcity16 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:17 pm
Vivi wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:47 pm
BD1 is a highly stainless steel. I've used it from several brands and I've found it at least on par with VG10. It is absolutely not a tool steel and shouldn't patina under normal use. Like VG10, what corrosion it does get will be pin prick rust circles that wipe off with a damp towel.
Personally I think a BD1 entry level model makes a lot of sense for
models bound to receive a lot of sprints. Most average knife users will find the lower price and easier sharpening of BD1 appealing VS S30V. Most knife buyers aren't AFI's that turn their nose up at well balanced budget stainless steels like BD1, VG10 and 440C.
I am not sure I agree that this model is bound to receive A LOT of sprints. A lot of retailers are hesitant to do Military Exclusives because of slow sales due to price and size/blade length. The last CTS-204P Military is held in high regard, but that exclusive sat around for over a year I believe. I don't know if adding a comp lock will do enough to drastically change long terms sales to where lots of sprints/exclusives will happen. I can see a few out of the gate while the hype is still strong though. On a similar note, I am curious as to if anyone has commissioned a Native Chief exclusive? Or if we will ever see a Police LW exclusive? Large blades don't get much love as you know with your yearly heartache over no new Manix XL exclusives!
Have you carried BD1 and Cruwear enough to opine on their corrosion resistance to your acid rain sweat?? :D I will say that my Cruwear Delica has shown more re-activeness than any of my Golden Cruwear, so I am wondering if a different heat treat was used in Seki? :confused: Heat treats can make some difference here. Nathan Carothers uses the "Delta" heat treat on this 3V fixed blades that improves corrosion resistance vs the standard heat treated 3V.
"The blade is made of 3/16" 3V with a heat treat that has been optimized to maximize edge stability in rough use. Despite being relatively thin it is durable. You can baton with it. You might damage the fine edge if you set your mind to it, but the knife itself is practically unbreakable.
A side effect of this heat treat is a higher percentage of free chromium, so although it is not stainless, it is nearly so." - Nathan
A Delta 3V Military sounds pretty awesome to me. I would love to see Sal collaborate with Nathan on a project to use his 3V in a model like this.
Yep! BD1 is hands down my favorite budget stainless. Very corrosion resistant, edge holding about the same as VG10, and its one of the easiest steels to sharpen to hair whittling sharpness. I have it from a few companies and have even chopped and batoned with it.
Cruwear impressed me with its sharpening response, but nothing else stood out to me to be honest. It readily corroded for me, pretty much any other carbon steel matches or exceeds its toughness on paper and in use, and the edge holding wasn't anything crazy. I've gotten better results across the board from 61rc A2, which is cheaper to boot. I've never been on board the cruwear bandwagon.
I agree with your comments about sprints and long blades.
Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:49 am
by Pelagic
steelcity16 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:25 pm
Pelagic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:44 pm
I love how popular this is. Personally, I'd prefer having 2 of these. But if I can only have one (the other being k390), it would be 20cv. When you love a model, it's good to have at least one you don't have to constantly care for.
Have you left the Cruwear Nation for good Pelagic??
No, I love cruwear. But it's not capable of high hardness. With spyderco's 4V and k390 hitting 65 HRC while retaining formidable toughness along with exceptional strength, 61.5 HRC cruwear isn't quite as appealing. It's still an excellent steel in use and in sharpening, and I may prefer it in some scenarios, but I'm usually either on the coast or in rural Georgia. On the coast, everything rusts. Despite cruwear being much more corrosion resistant than 4V and k390, all 3 of them rust when I'm on the coast and none of them rust out in the country. So that's why I'm not as crazy about it. The 20cv would be for the coast and k390 for the country. I'd rather have Vanax and 15v or Vancron SC but I'd be dreaming at that point haha. I still like cruwear the same, better options just arose for my needs and lifestyle.
Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:24 am
by emanuel
steelcity16 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:09 pm
Compression Lock Military 2.
:eek: :eek: :eek: Oh boy!
Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:00 pm
by ugaarguy
steelcity16 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:29 pm
The Data Sheet for BD1 says it performs similarly to tool steel, which is my experience in my Manix LW, so I guess I never even knew it wasn't technically a tool steel. Nor did I know it was supposed to be a stainless steel since mine showed patina faster than my Cruwear and other members have complained about corrsosion in the past. I've always just assumed it was a tool steel because it acts like one (tough, easy to sharpen, patinas) and it inexpensive like the basic ones. Interesting. I still like BD1. Its good stuff. Thanks for the learning. Just keep in mind that spec sheets and charts don't always translate to real world experiences once these steels have been transformed into blades. So many variables to account for.
RadioactiveSpyder wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:23 pm
For me, BD1 holds a decent enough edge, not sure it's quite up to the snuff of VG-10 (which I like very much, along with N690Co), but it is the ONLY Spyderco steel I have rust issues with. YMMV but it's a steel I tend to avoid, and several of us have lamented the fact the new lightweight black Manix 2 will be sporting this steel, although maybe the coating will alleviate much of the rusting issue. Cheers, Radioactive :)
Okay, that's really interesting. Yes, real world at knife blade heat treats, with knife blade grinds and finishes, are always going to tell us more than the data sheet. The link you posted about the person trying to force a patina on Cru-Wear was eye opening. You're tempting me to buy a Cru-Wear Native LW just to see what all the hype is about.
Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:36 pm
by steelcity16
Where are all of these 20CV votes coming from?? :confused:
#voterfraud!
Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:50 pm
by Tdog
steelcity16 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:36 pm
Where are all of these 20CV votes coming from?? :confused:
#voterfraud!
A lot of people prefer stainless blades. :) Generally less maintenance, especially if around saltwater.
Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:07 am
by Wartstein
Poor, old S30V! Such a good steel for a base model (and generally), yet still the least votes...
Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:32 am
by Chris_P_Bacon
20CV is very well balanced, would like to see it become the new base model steel.
Would also love to see a salt M2 in 2020, if they could make that a goal. Vanax preferably, but LC200N will do.
Can always sprint the exotics down the road. I think with tip up, and compression it'll sell better, only time will tell.
Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:11 am
by archangel
wrdwrght wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:08 pm
3V, whatever heat-treat Spyderco thinks best. I have none and would like a tough Millie.
+1
Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:46 am
by colin.p
My suggestion is of no account to anyone, but I chose 20cv just because. However, FOR MYSELF IS CONCERNED, the steel is the least important. All the listed steels above are more than adequate and will work better than fine. I am far more concerned with ergonomics and aesthetics.
Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:13 pm
by Ferris Wheels
Have the CTS-204P Military and it is my most carried knife currently. The same steel by a different name was my choice as it has proved to be a perfect combination.
Re: Compression Lock Military 2 Steel Poll
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:53 pm
by T-1000
Wartstein wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:07 am
Poor, old S30V! Such a good steel for a base model (and generally), yet still the least votes...
I know man! I love s30v. Great mix of edge holding, corrosion resistance and toughness. One of my favorite all around steels for a working blade, which is what the military is!