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Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:20 pm
by CrimsonTideShooter
Donut wrote:Alright, two people have said it and I don't believe it for one second. I searched for regrinds or people who have stripped the blades on these knives and found nothing. I started to write Tom Krein an email, but I think it would be much easier to just call nanigans. Below I am showing four examples of composite blades from kershaw. I have nothing against the company, but I don't like seeing people believing something that is obviously not true.
1. It would be MUCH more difficult to bind metals together in a very specific pattern to match a knife.
2. It would be MUCH more expensive to bind metals together to match the knife. Some of these examples are probably impossible to do.
3. They are putting a line on the knives already, why wouldn't they just show the two sections differently?
4. Would they really give you 90% of the edge with D2 and the rest with the other steel?
Seriously, give me some proof other than just word of mouth that they are really going out of their way to make the steel on these knives amazing, especially on the lower end models of the brand.
You don't have to believe me, but yes those patterns do indicate where the two steels are bonded. If you look with your own eyes at the knife, and not just a picture, you can see a thin copper colored bonding line. That's where the two steels meet.
Like I said, it's true, but you don't have to believe me. A quick email to Kershaw/ZT will confirm what I'm saying. Maybe you'll believe them?
ETA: I've reread your post a few times, and I still can't figure out if you are confirming or disputing the fact that the funky patterns indicate where the two steels meet?!
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:30 pm
by gundude73
here is a video showing that the pattern is where the steel meets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsoRs5Pm20I
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:24 pm
by Adriaan
Evil D wrote: VG10 on the other hand is much more chrome in color, and on every knife i've seen in this steel there is this trademark grain to the steel that's easy to see because it goes the opposite direction of the grind lines.
Uhuh i like the look of VG10 steel. It is an awesome steel in every way. Top of the range!
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:35 pm
by rosconey
composite blades are awsome from a visual stand point -i love my ti speedform like the one in the pic
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:01 pm
by Donut
That's an interesting video, now it just seems funny that they would go so far out of their way to do all this. It probably has to do with making 3 times the product out of the same amount of material.
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:12 pm
by CrimsonTideShooter
Donut wrote:That's an interesting video, now it just seems funny that they would go so far out of their way to do all this. It probably has to do with making 3 times the product out of the same amount of material.
It has to do with bringing premium steels at an affordable cost.
A composite blade with D2 at the cutting edge costs MUCH less than a full blade made of D2.
Same with ZDP, ELMAX, etc...
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:19 pm
by Rwb1500
Cool video. I had no idea.
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:25 pm
by gundude73
Donut wrote:That's an interesting video, now it just seems funny that they would go so far out of their way to do all this. It probably has to do with making 3 times the product out of the same amount of material.
not really. composite blades cost about what they should. really its only an extra step or two to make them. IMO its a nice way to try out expensive steel at a cheaper price point. (sorta like how spyderco has CPM M4 in the GB for around $100-120)
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:40 pm
by The Deacon
They're all grey to me. Different shades of grey, different patterns of striations/grain too, but still shades of grey. Some of that is a function of finish, but some is a function of the steel.
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:08 pm
by Evil D
The composite blade thing, how they're welded together, that makes me wonder how that process effects the heat treat of the steel. I guess maybe they're heat treated after they're bonded.
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:22 pm
by Jazz
I sure do see the colors, and I love it. Some steels and metals just look so, I don't know how to say it except, "manly". ZDP has the look, S30V sometimes, and not a blade material, but titanium is quite cool. I also like how some steels get that "orange peel" finish when polished.
- best wishes, Jazz.
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:47 pm
by G10KnifeNut
Evil D wrote:That water pattern is the grain i was talking about. I can't really see any rainbows though...are you sure you're feeling ok? :D
Yup :D Try looking at it in the sunlight along the grind lines. Kind of how you see rainbow effects on an oil spot on the ground :)
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:24 pm
by Bill1170
Evil D wrote:The composite blade thing, how they're welded together, that makes me wonder how that process effects the heat treat of the steel. I guess maybe they're heat treated after they're bonded.
The composite blades from Kershaw are not welded together, they are brazed, so the two steels never melt. Heat treat has to occur after brazing, of course. Also, they sometimes etch the blade to accentuate the difference in the two steels. The Titanium handled Tyrades had the etch done, and the CPM-D2 looks quite different than the 154CM, but the G-10 Tyrades were not etched, and the two steels look pretty much the same.
I like the look of the composite blades. Not all of them, but many. It gives the designer another element to use in developing a pretty design.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:01 am
by JacksonKnives
I hate to drag the discussion further off topic, but I need to say:
Some of the composite blades out there are just stupid. I understand the *idea* behind using different steels to achieve different benefits, or to reduce cost (we've been doing that since the migration era) but CPM-D2 adds *nothing* to the spine of an M390 blade except cost and marketing hype. The ZDP laminates make sense from a manufacturing standpoint, but using a 'big name' blade steel in the spine of a knife with mosaic designs that match the handle... It's possible there aren't any more economical steels that will handle the HT cycle on M390, but that shouldn't be our first guess at the reasoning here...
[Deep breath]
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:15 am
by Evil D
I'm surprised the extra cost in laser cutting two pieces and then brazing them together and the extra work finishing the blade doesn't offset whatever they're saving from just using a solid piece of steel for the whole blade.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:05 am
by KardinalSyn
That's a tough one David.
Let me buy a few more Spydies and reply you :D
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:25 am
by AKWolf
I have a unblemished aforementioned RJ Martin Volt. They were not easy to produce for Kershaw ! In fact less than 280 or so made sale-able in unblemished another 250 or so blemished sold for only $20 less,. Spectacular rare piece ... that is all
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:49 am
by Donut
Evil D wrote:I'm surprised the extra cost in laser cutting two pieces and then brazing them together and the extra work finishing the blade doesn't offset whatever they're saving from just using a solid piece of steel for the whole blade.
That's why I think it has more to do with how much steel they can get their hands on and how many knives they can make from that steel than cost alone.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:08 am
by Simple Man
The Deacon wrote:They're all grey to me. Different shades of grey, different patterns of striations/grain too, but still shades of grey. Some of that is a function of finish, but some is a function of the steel.
Deacon, always the consummate Deadhead, oh wait that was Touch of Gray, sry...
:D
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:03 pm
by CrimsonTideShooter
Donut wrote:That's why I think it has more to do with how much steel they can get their hands on and how many knives they can make from that steel than cost alone.
So you heard a Kershaw rep explain in video the reasons behind doing composite blades, yet you still think it's for a different reason?
Do you think he's lying or something? Or that maybe you know more than them? I don't get it.
They use composite technology to save money for YOU, the end user. It was explained in detail in the video. They gain nothing from lying about it, so why do you feel as though there is some underlying reason?