Spyderco Forums

Ankerson wrote: So if the perceived change was needed ... over S30V performance wise ... there was already another steel available that IS/WAS a real upgrade to S30V both toughness AND edge retention wise...... That was/IS ELMAX.......

I assume you are referring to your opinion at that time that ELMAX had better edge retention than S30V, correct? b/c your course edge cutting manila rope testing results show S30v at 60hc is actually more wear resistant than ELMAX at 58.5 RC. Or did you mean edge retentive as opposed to wear resistant?
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DunninLA wrote:I assume you are referring to your opinion at that time that ELMAX had better edge retention than S30V, correct? b/c your course edge cutting manila rope testing results show S30v at 60hc is actually more wear resistant than ELMAX at 58.5 RC. Or did you mean edge retentive as opposed to wear resistant?
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At the same hardness range they are a lot closer, ELMAX shows increased performance at higher RC ranges.

S30V at 60 RC should and does perform better than ELMAX would at 58.5 RC, there would be a problem if it didn't....

^ your cutting chart shows them with similar edge retention with a fine edge both at 60. However, my feeling, which maybe you can confirm, is that the higher vanadium steels separate themselves from the lesser/no vanadium steels when used with a course edge... that is to say, I suspect if you were to do your cuts with Elmax at 60RC course edge, it would still fall a little short of your S30v cuts at 60RC course edge. And I think that b/c S30v has a little more Vanadium, and a little more Moly, as compared to Elmax, while having a little less Carbon, and a little less Chromium.

Anyway, they're not far apart either way I suppose. I just thought it odd that you would have mentioned Elmax in your post as having superior edge retention to s30V.

DunninLA wrote:^ your cutting chart shows them with similar edge retention with a fine edge both at 60. However, my feeling, which maybe you can confirm, is that the higher vanadium steels separate themselves from the lesser/no vanadium steels when used with a course edge... that is to say, I suspect if you were to do your cuts with Elmax at 60RC course edge, it would still fall a little short of your S30v cuts at 60RC course edge.

That's was with polished edges.......

The only ELMAX I have now is over 60 RC and a custom folder, and it does very well.

Blerv wrote:Also, our office is out of chocolate.

Seriously? Someone call Ghirardelli QUICK! This is an emergency situation!



Ken

Donut wrote:Cliff, I was wondering, if Spyderco did a sprint in AEB-L, what model do you think would be best for it?

Given the nature of AEB-L :

-Nilakka
-Puukko

But many of their knives are optimized for very thin/low angled edges or could be :

-South Fork
-Bill Moran

and I can't forget to mention one of my all time favorite clipits, Calypso Jr. .

DunninLA wrote:.. higher vanadium steels separate themselves from the lesser/no vanadium steels when used with a course edge

There is nothing inherent about vanadium itself which translates to cutting/edge retention, however in high volumes all carbide formers destabilize the edge and it micro-fractures. This then means that the edge retention will be optimal at a more coarse finish because that is naturally how the edge will blunt. This is why for example Dozier has always has extreme praise for his edge retention of D2 as he ships them (and says to resharpen them) with a coarse edge.

Cliff,

Your selected models are all made in overseas plants... Taiwan (3 of 4 selections) would be the only one where AEB-L could be shipped to produce the sprint. But, that would increase cost and maybe drive demand down. Is there a Golden, USA model that would do the steel and geometry justice for you?

Edited to add that I realize that AEB-L isn't a USA steel either so maybe importing anywhere isn't as big of a deal?

AEB-L is just a brand name, everyone makes razor blade steels, for example CTS BDZ1 is the same steel from Carpenter : http://www.cartech.com/ssalloysprod.aspx?id=4395 .

UK Pen.

Cliff, am I correct in assuming the Spydie kitchen knives would be ideal as well for AEB-L as well?

Yes, AEB-L is an extremely popular kitchen knife steel. The only issue with it is that the corrosion resistance can be an issue unless :

-equalized with a short/hot soak
-oil quenched
-no temper delay

The carbon/chromium is carefully balanced and if the HT is not carried out to fairly exacting standards you can end up with less Chromium in solution or it can precipitate out .

Blerv wrote:Yea my brother bought a CR Insingo in S35vn and was concerned it wouldn't hold up well even to office tasks after all the bad press on the web. While we aren't notoriously rough on edges it's been just fine. While we admit that is completely anecdotal it's not far from some of the cutting tests condemning knife steels on Youtube.

Somewhere between the "best thing ever" and "the worst thing ever" usually there is a happy medium of reality. At least on a scale of averages.

S30V from Spyderco is a different animal than S35Vn from Chris Reeve due to heat teatment.I love my Insigno but I adore my Para 2 in S30V.