Inside a Lil' Temperance - and comparison to the newer Lil' Temperance 3

[srivats]

I lucked out bigtime a couple months ago on an older used Lil' Temperance. It was kinda gunky and I finally tonight I did some maintenance on that knife since I am off work this week and next. Thought I would share some photos comparing to the newer one.

Here is how the original looks inside. Not sure what type of plastic the washers are made of .. they are very thin. I did wonder how the new one looks inside. I will take it apart and share here for posterity later.

Side by side with the latest version.

As you can see. the newer version is still *very* close in size and shape. No jimping for the thumb on the older one, but it actually feels more secure than the newer one due the shape and how your thumb sits. I also like the forefinger guard on the older one.

I have put my new one during some heavy duty garage projects, cutting all sorts of things up and the K390 just keeps going. The handles are great to work while wearing gloves. I know some people balk at the cost of this model, but it feels really sturdy to use. Thank you @sal for this model, it's a joy to use in the garage without a worry.

[sal]

Hi Srivats,

Thanx much for sharing your thoughts, and for finding the old model.

Talkin; Story; The original design was a fitting of both forward grip, edge down and up, and reverse grip edge out. We made 23 wood and plastic models to get the "Pattern" to where I wanted it. I had been studying some Martial Blade Craft and was trying to design a legal (under 3") in most places, heavy duty, reliable self defense tool.

We made the design in Golden. As time went on, I'd discovered the MBC style known as Pakal / Pikal. My design would not serve that style. So I redesigned the pattern to fit all four grips (Forward Grip, Edge Down, Forward Grip, Edge Up, Reverse Grip Edge In, Reverse Grip Edge Out).

We tried a number of locks (RIL, Compression Lock, etc.) and decided on the Compression Lock for a variety of reasons. The model has a long history, and while not a "hot" seller", some find the advantages of the design. It is somewhat unique and probably wouldn't be noticed by a non "Afi" knife person. Almost an "insider design".

sal

[Michal O]

I like the T3 handle more, but would like to have "rhino" T3 with G-10 and cruwear or spy27.
Here is my pack. I must notice that Seki improved quality on FRN variants. It's very hydraulic action without blade play, especially on VG-10 SE.

[p_atrick]

I'm glad to read stories like this. I find the Lil' Temp 3 to be such a great knife, but it is often overlooked.

[Igi964]

I get LT3 K390 this summer. Mostly because I want K390 without backlock. Was not sure if I would like the design. Get some nice discount on it, so I gave it a try.
Like the knife from the first flick. Nice ergos, comfortable in every grip, thick blade, but still cuts very good, K390 is one of my favourite steels. It is a Hard use folder, with hard use steel. And big bonus full edge without choil. Witch is very rare in Spyderco knives.
Have some Native 5 Lw, Sage 5, Microjimbo and I like the variety of my line up. Use them and like them all.
Lt3 defintely stays

[Red Leader]

I get LT3 K390 this summer. Mostly because I want K390 without backlock. Was not sure if I would like the design. Get some nice discount on it, so I gave it a try.
Like the knife from the first flick. Nice ergos, comfortable in every grip, thick blade, but still cuts very good, K390 is one of my favourite steels. It is a Hard use folder, with hard use steel. And big bonus full edge without choil. Witch is very rare in Spyderco knives.
Have some Native 5 Lw, Sage 5, Microjimbo and I like the variety of my line up. Use them and like them all.
Lt3 defintely stays

I love my LT3 K390, but it hardly ever makes it into the pocket because the detent is so weak and the blade is so heavy that it is a 'high risk' combo for opening in the pocket. I'd like to fix that, because I think it is fixable. There is also a little bit of detent lash, mainly from either the detent hole being in the slightly incorrect location, or the stop pin being just a little small - the blade goes just a little bit past the detent. The stop pin is a little short as well, which binds up the blade if you try to tighten it snug, so you have to leave it loose. At the Seconds Sale, there were a couple others there and while I do think the detents were a little better, they still had some lash. I really admire the design, I see the benefit in it. I do also think that the LT3 is the perfect candidate for a little bit of CQI work. I think it is worth it.

[srivats]

Hi Srivats,

Thanx much for sharing your thoughts, and for finding the old model.

Talkin; Story; The original design was a fitting of both forward grip, edge down and up, and reverse grip edge out. We made 23 wood and plastic models to get the "Pattern" to where I wanted it. I had been studying some Martial Blade Craft and was trying to design a legal (under 3") in most places, heavy duty, reliable self defense tool.

We made the design in Golden. As time went on, I'd discovered the MBC style known as Pakal / Pikal. My design would not serve that style. So I redesigned the pattern to fit all four grips (Forward Grip, Edge Down, Forward Grip, Edge Up, Reverse Grip Edge In, Reverse Grip Edge Out).

We tried a number of locks (RIL, Compression Lock, etc.) and decided on the Compression Lock for a variety of reasons. The model has a long history, and while not a "hot" seller", some find the advantages of the design. It is somewhat unique and probably wouldn't be noticed by a non "Afi" knife person. Almost an "insider design".

sal

Great story, thank you for sharing Sal.

The effort that went into designing that handle in the original version is obvious once you hold it. The LT3 doesn't look as cut out visually, but the curves and the shape make it very comfortable for long use with gloved hands. K390 is a really good choice for this knife.

I am now curious about the Pikal, will go read up on it!

[8th_Note]

I get LT3 K390 this summer. Mostly because I want K390 without backlock. Was not sure if I would like the design. Get some nice discount on it, so I gave it a try.
Like the knife from the first flick. Nice ergos, comfortable in every grip, thick blade, but still cuts very good, K390 is one of my favourite steels. It is a Hard use folder, with hard use steel. And big bonus full edge without choil. Witch is very rare in Spyderco knives.
Have some Native 5 Lw, Sage 5, Microjimbo and I like the variety of my line up. Use them and like them all.
Lt3 defintely stays

I love my LT3 K390, but it hardly ever makes it into the pocket because the detent is so weak and the blade is so heavy that it is a 'high risk' combo for opening in the pocket. I'd like to fix that, because I think it is fixable. There is also a little bit of detent lash, mainly from either the detent hole being in the slightly incorrect location, or the stop pin being just a little small - the blade goes just a little bit past the detent. The stop pin is a little short as well, which binds up the blade if you try to tighten it snug, so you have to leave it loose. At the Seconds Sale, there were a couple others there and while I do think the detents were a little better, they still had some lash. I really admire the design, I see the benefit in it. I do also think that the LT3 is the perfect candidate for a little bit of CQI work. I think it is worth it.

I have a factory 2nd LT3 K390 and mine has zero lash and the detent is not what I would consider weak for a Spyderco. My GB2 and Caribbean bo th have very weak detents. But the LT3 detent is on par with my Golden compression locks, which are definitely stronger

[Red Leader]

I get LT3 K390 this summer. Mostly because I want K390 without backlock. Was not sure if I would like the design. Get some nice discount on it, so I gave it a try.
Like the knife from the first flick. Nice ergos, comfortable in every grip, thick blade, but still cuts very good, K390 is one of my favourite steels. It is a Hard use folder, with hard use steel. And big bonus full edge without choil. Witch is very rare in Spyderco knives.
Have some Native 5 Lw, Sage 5, Microjimbo and I like the variety of my line up. Use them and like them all.
Lt3 defintely stays

I love my LT3 K390, but it hardly ever makes it into the pocket because the detent is so weak and the blade is so heavy that it is a 'high risk' combo for opening in the pocket. I'd like to fix that, because I think it is fixable. There is also a little bit of detent lash, mainly from either the detent hole being in the slightly incorrect location, or the stop pin being just a little small - the blade goes just a little bit past the detent. The stop pin is a little short as well, which binds up the blade if you try to tighten it snug, so you have to leave it loose. At the Seconds Sale, there were a couple others there and while I do think the detents were a little better, they still had some lash. I really admire the design, I see the benefit in it. I do also think that the LT3 is the perfect candidate for a little bit of CQI work. I think it is worth it.

I have a factory 2nd LT3 K390 and mine has zero lash and the detent is not what I would consider weak for a Spyderco. My GB2 and Caribbean bo th have very weak detents. But the LT3 detent is on par with my Golden compression locks, which are definitely stronger

It's good to know some good ones exist. I need a winter project, so I'm not upset about it, I like the knife and I like tinkering, so it should be fun. But there is definitely some inconsistency with the model.

[zuludelta]

I lucked out bigtime a couple months ago on an older used Lil' Temperance. It was kinda gunky and I finally tonight I did some maintenance on that knife since I am off work this week and next. Thought I would share some photos comparing to the newer one.

Here is how the original looks inside. Not sure what type of plastic the washers are made of .. they are very thin. I did wonder how the new one looks inside. I will take it apart and share here for posterity later.

image.png

Side by side with the latest version.

image.png

As you can see. the newer version is still *very* close in size and shape. No jimping for the thumb on the older one, but it actually feels more secure than the newer one due the shape and how your thumb sits. I also like the forefinger guard on the older one.

I have put my new one during some heavy duty garage projects, cutting all sorts of things up and the K390 just keeps going. The handles are great to work while wearing gloves. I know some people balk at the cost of this model, but it feels really sturdy to use. Thank you @sal for this model, it's a joy to use in the garage without a worry.

image.png

image.png

Great find! Thanks for sharing the pics of the disassembled knife, always nice to be able to compare the internals of older models & see what has changed over time.

[Wowbagger]

I'll bite.
I bought the Spyderco C69GP3 Lil' Temperance 3 G-10 Black four years ago now .
I find the handle to be right along the alley of what I want : all that "handle forward" . .. ( am still unclear on exactly what handle forward means) (would somebody straighten me out ?) (some times I think it means just the handle but often I see it refering to the blade edge coming way back to the lower forward edge of the handle ) . . .
in any case the wide and forward leaning area to put my thumb down on , with some jimping like mine has , and the finger guard area behind that some and then the blade edge coming WAYBACK'ER

LOVE ALL THAT SO MUCH ! ! !

Now . . . I don't poke people with my knives . . .so . . . I don't know . . . do I ?
but I don't carry the Lil' because the blade isn't what I want for a daily user .
(still though . . . battling Griz . . . cutting quadruple wall corrugated shipping crates . . . one knife COULD work for both IMO .)

In the same breath the blade length is perfect ! ! ! Heck I cut longer knives down just to get this blade length in a stoutish blade . . . wide like this but short , attached to a "big" handle, really rings my chimes for the type of cutting I do which often means stabbing in and then putting a bunch of force into the handle for a long cut .

But the thickness at the blade spine . . . is this really needed for battling griz ? I could pry my sports car up to fix a flat if I had a rock to pivot it on . So again I don't carry it. Needs to be more """""slicy"""""" . This is a slicer right ? Slicing through clothing , jackets , gloves ?

And so we come by degrees but inexorably to the whole poking thing . This Lil' seems to be more of a poker . Why ? Well the blade with all that belly just seems to get deflected by a surface while slicing , unless it is just crazy sharp and maybe even toothy .
That leaves poking to effect a change in a fellow humans attitude .

That is another reason I don't carry it daily ; the curved belly pushes the edge up out of a cut . Now on soft surfaces whether it is a hot dog bun or a cloth jacket (supported by a fat belly or not) this pushing out of the cut is going to happen in swiping / slicing type cuts . . .
(((Try the hot dog bun length wise and you will see what I mean )))

The appeal of the Janich Wharncliffe then comes to mind ; I do that to A LOT of my daily carries = cut blade short , Wharnie it and thin / angle the tip .

The thin tip seems to be somewhat contradictory for battling . Kind of snappy offy .

I once said in another forum long ago that a Wharnie doesn't make a good stabber . Some one came back (I think it was a very prominent female member who is very knowledgeable , has a horse ranch and buys A LOT OF THE VERY BEST KNIVES , said : Oh I don't find that to be true . ((( we won't , at this juncture , try to imagine how she knows this so unassailably )))

I rethunk it and she was right . The radiused or angled spine , depending on the design , actually drives/wedges the pointy straight edge downward as the knife enters the matter to be cut and so pierces quite well .

NEW KNIFE IDEA: G-10 Temperance 3 with Warnie blade , same blade length or even shorter , maybe back off a little on the spine thickness (and offer A LOT thinner blade spine option for us non griz hunters) but in any case keep the butch handle .
3 V ? ? ? ?
YUUUUUUP

[Michal O]

Wharncliffe rather won't fit to this handle due to standoffs placement.

I did today some "prototype" of Rhino T3. Tip doesn't stick out, cutting edge doesn't hit standoffs.

[Blerv]

I finally landed a Lil Temp Rhino after years of looking. No clip unfortunately so still trying to figure out that, sigh.

If the new one was offered in a Rhino…oh that’s would be an instant buy.

[sal]

Hi Blerv,

Nice find.

Talkin; story;

I added the Rhino blade from Teaching of James Keating. The Rhino blade works better for trapping and passing, and the lock is strong enough to handle the force. The Leaf was mine. But the Rhino just wasn't as popular and that's probably why it's harder to find.

I thought about adding a Wharncliffe, a la Michael Janich. It's a unique pattern that only appeals to certain knife users, so volume isn't high, but I like to keep it in the line for that group that does see value in the design. Not much on the market serving that market.

sal

[Blerv]

That’s very cool Sal! It makes perfect sense per the era.

Frankly, I just like dramatic grind lines. Leaf blades might be perfect though; it’s a shape that has never challenged at a task.

[Igi964]

I have Lt3 K390 and also Microjimbo 15V. Knives are tools for me, not weapons. I like both these "self defens" knives. Each show different aproach. And both serves me well as EDC. Wharncliffe is excelent box cutter, leaf shape is great in food prep, wood cutting etc. As Sal used to says. All good, but different.
I enjoy the options and variety with my knives.
So IMHO keep the leaf or rhino for Lt3 and wharncliffe blade for Yojimbo family.