Sal, have you and Eric considered the Philippines as an allied manufacturing location for budget knives?
1 they are a long time US ally and China is an enemy state to them. Filipinos have directly told me they view the CCP as a dangerous aggressor.
2 The Philippines has a long history of knife making. Nacionale Knives makes cooking blades and the Filipino people make balisongs, bolos, and other knives. They also have factories manufacturing motorcycles and I read that the govt there has been investing in training skilled machinists to lessen reliance on Chinese goods.
That is a spectacular idea, but I do not think they have the trained staff or equipment. If they could get a grant and school up, I'd buy knives from the PI!
Following already posted logic regarding currency. The Philippines Peso is 58 to 1 USD.
So, is any one really going to pay 58 times for the same knife?
I just checked. YES, 58:1, but it's 58 of their dollars for 1 of ours.
You make them there and import them to the USA.
You can even export the Spyderco knives made in the PI to China.
1st fixed blade knife should be a ginunting!
Support your allies. I'll buy!
I Support: VFW; USO; Navy SEAL Foundation, SEAL Jason Redman; America’s Warrior Partnership; Second Amendment Foundation(SAF); Gun Owners of America(GOA); Firearms Policy Coalition(FPC); Knife Rights; The Dog Aging Institute; Longevity Biotech Fellowship;
Sal, have you and Eric considered the Philippines as an allied manufacturing location for budget knives?
1 they are a long time US ally and China is an enemy state to them. Filipinos have directly told me they view the CCP as a dangerous aggressor.
2 The Philippines has a long history of knife making. Nacionale Knives makes cooking blades and the Filipino people make balisongs, bolos, and other knives. They also have factories manufacturing motorcycles and I read that the govt there has been investing in training skilled machinists to lessen reliance on Chinese goods.
That is a spectacular idea, but I do not think they have the trained staff or equipment. If they could get a grant and school up, I'd buy knives from the PI!
Following already posted logic regarding currency. The Philippines Peso is 58 to 1 USD.
So, is any one really going to pay 58 times for the same knife?
I think you are thinking backwards…. $1usd is worth 58 philippine pesos…. Meaning if I bought something worth 58 Philippine pesos it would cost $1usd. So if a knife was marked 580 Philippine pesos it would cost $10 usd. Now, math is definitely not my strong suit and I could be wrong, but when I learned math way way back when 2+2=4.
Last edited by Jesla on Mon Nov 03, 2025 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whatever turns you on, cupcake.
Still plays with knives…
Sal, have you and Eric considered the Philippines as an allied manufacturing location for budget knives?
1 they are a long time US ally and China is an enemy state to them. Filipinos have directly told me they view the CCP as a dangerous aggressor.
2 The Philippines has a long history of knife making. Nacionale Knives makes cooking blades and the Filipino people make balisongs, bolos, and other knives. They also have factories manufacturing motorcycles and I read that the govt there has been investing in training skilled machinists to lessen reliance on Chinese goods.
That is a spectacular idea, but I do not think they have the trained staff or equipment. If they could get a grant and school up, I'd buy knives from the PI!
Following already posted logic regarding currency. The Philippines Peso is 58 to 1 USD.
So, is any one really going to pay 58 times for the same knife?
58 to 1! I never imagined. How can such an impoverished country with no assets have such a strong currency?
Umm, guys, am I getting this right? What 58 to 1 means is that the US Dollar is stronger. For 1 USD you can buy 58 PHP worth of stuff.
So if a Filipino Balisong cost 58 Philippine Pesos, your dollar would but 58 of them.
In actuality these nations increase the price so like in one Filipino store:
STEM is not really a path right now for most Americans.
As an American in STEM I really strongly disagree.
I love being educated in STEM, but for me I would have been better off staying as an electrician. The STEM degrees didn't do anything for me in the job market. I lived in Silicon Valley 2000 to 2003 and was employed as a NOC analyst and systems administrator.
Immigrants make up 69% of the Silicon Valley workforce in highly technical occupations, including 26% from India and 14% from China. Other countries such as the Philippines, Vietnam, Pakistan and other countries make up 29%. Only 17% are from California, and 14% are from other U.S. states. The region is also getting more educated, with 51.6% of residents holding a bachelor’s degree, up from 44.2% in 2007. Twenty -four percent of adults in Silicon Valley also have a graduate or professional degree.
...
Almost 3 out of 4 women tech workers in the region between ages 25 and 44 are foreign-born and are disproportionately from Asian countries, married and have children.
I Support: VFW; USO; Navy SEAL Foundation, SEAL Jason Redman; America’s Warrior Partnership; Second Amendment Foundation(SAF); Gun Owners of America(GOA); Firearms Policy Coalition(FPC); Knife Rights; The Dog Aging Institute; Longevity Biotech Fellowship;
The exchange rate between two currencies is meaningless without knowing the price level in each country. $1 buys you 10 kr worth of Norwegian goods, which is much less than $1 would buy you in the US.
Immigrants make up 69% of the Silicon Valley workforce in highly technical occupations,
Because we don’t have enough Americans to do those jobs. Those foreign works enabled USA companies to establish global dominance in tech. This is a massive conversation about the means obviously but the effect isn’t really up for debate, we won — so far.
Immigrants make up 69% of the Silicon Valley workforce in highly technical occupations,
Because we don’t have enough Americans to do those jobs. Those foreign works enabled USA companies to establish global dominance in tech. This is a massive conversation about the means obviously but the effect isn’t really up for debate, we won — so far.
There have been hundreds of articles written on this and you are completely wrong.
Lately I have been applying for entry level jobs because I had a mild heart attack followed by open heart surgery, took care of my mom's live in partner who passed away, then my mother who passed away. I have been out of tech support for 5 years but did some major projects.
I'm just one guy in Illinois but there is one company that controls 80% of the tech support jobs that I apply to and they say that they are going to call me but totally ghost me every time. I've been applying since my mother passed away in March, hundreds of times... NO RESPONSE. House is up for sale now and I am getting out of the state. I could not get a $5500 raise over warehouse work!
DEPORT 5 million H1B's and green card holders working in tech support.
PREVENT all of the foreign students from working.
Allow US citizens to work.
I Support: VFW; USO; Navy SEAL Foundation, SEAL Jason Redman; America’s Warrior Partnership; Second Amendment Foundation(SAF); Gun Owners of America(GOA); Firearms Policy Coalition(FPC); Knife Rights; The Dog Aging Institute; Longevity Biotech Fellowship;
The jobs that I have been applying to are all $25 to $30 per hour entry level jobs and I have not received one interview or response. Are you going to tell me that I cannot do basic endpoint system administration? Forget it. I'm retiring again and will do martial arts full time.
HOME SYSTEMS FOR REMOTE WORK
- Dell Alienware R16, 64GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4090 and Asus 30 inch monitor
- Samsung S25 Ultra cell phone
- Cisco Meraki MX67W Next-generation layer 7 firewall and content filtering, employing DUO Mobile for logins, Geo-IP Based Firewalling, Snort 3, Advanced Malware Prevention (AMP)
EDUCATION
* 1990 Awarded Associate in Science in General Studies College of DuPage
* 1998 Awarded B.S. in Management Information Systems from the Ivy College of Business, Iowa State University
* 2007 Awarded Associate in Applied Science in Internetworking Technician, College of DuPage. Covered OSI, TCP/IP, LAN & WAN technologies, and Cisco routers and switches. Cisco CCNA Certificate School.
* 2012 Expensed $9,000+ toward certification through the following courses: o VMware vSphere 5 Ultimate Bootcamp for VMware Certified Professional (VCP) covering ESXi and vSphere backup, vCenter licensing, server and VM monitoring, patching, security, and storage o Microsoft MCITP, 70-640, Configuring Windows Server 2008 Active Directory o Microsoft MCITP, 70-646, Microsoft Windows Server 2008, Server Administrator
I Support: VFW; USO; Navy SEAL Foundation, SEAL Jason Redman; America’s Warrior Partnership; Second Amendment Foundation(SAF); Gun Owners of America(GOA); Firearms Policy Coalition(FPC); Knife Rights; The Dog Aging Institute; Longevity Biotech Fellowship;
Immigrants make up 69% of the Silicon Valley workforce in highly technical occupations,
Because we don’t have enough Americans to do those jobs. Those foreign works enabled USA companies to establish global dominance in tech. This is a massive conversation about the means obviously but the effect isn’t really up for debate, we won — so far.
I Support: VFW; USO; Navy SEAL Foundation, SEAL Jason Redman; America’s Warrior Partnership; Second Amendment Foundation(SAF); Gun Owners of America(GOA); Firearms Policy Coalition(FPC); Knife Rights; The Dog Aging Institute; Longevity Biotech Fellowship;
Right now, the best option is to increase our capacity in Golden and to use Chinese makers. But we also recognize that one cannot step into the same river twice and we know the future will bring us new surprises.
I would also suggest that we do not hijack the thread with employment and STEM?
Right now, the best option is to increase our capacity in Golden and to use Chinese makers. But we also recognize that one cannot step into the same river twice and we know the future will bring us new surprises.
I would also suggest that we do not hijack the thread with employment and STEM?
sal
Agreed. Thank you for all you do and yes, please everyone keep to the original topic.
Hopefully not too far into political territory but the solution to the devaluation of the Yuan is tariffs. I hope that goods from China become more expensive than US goods. That people do have to pay 6 times what they currently cost. In the short run, that will cause economic pain, companies that manufacture exclusively in China will likely go under. But the end result would be a return more US manufacturing. Which would make jobs here, and put an end to US makers being priced out of the market. Our 40 year addiction to cheap labor and goods has cost us more than we saved.
Hopefully not too far into political territory but the solution to the devaluation of the Yuan is tariffs. I hope that goods from China become more expensive than US goods. That people do have to pay 6 times what they currently cost. In the short run, that will cause economic pain, companies that manufacture exclusively in China will likely go under. But the end result would be a return more US manufacturing. Which would make jobs here, and put an end to US makers being priced out of the market. Our 40 year addiction to cheap labor and goods has cost us more than we saved.
I completely understand this. Here is the salient key question.
Would the scenario you propose leave room for decent quality but relatively inexpensive budget knives, or, would everything cost above 100 US Dollars?
So I just saw that Kizer has released some new ‘top liner lock’ ala Button Compression Lock models. So far, that makes Vosteed, Tenable, Kunwu, and now Kizer. And maybe more that I don’t know of. I guarantee by this time next year, all the major budget players like Civivi, QSP, Miguron, and others will have their own ‘top liner lock’ versions, 100%. That is what the market demands, and these companies have been extremely responsive to those demands.
I think, even though the mindset is dwindling, people in a generic sense have maybe a little bit more patience when it comes to American manufacturing, because things take longer, you partner with other suppliers and vendors, sometimes finding the right supplier takes a long time, problems come up, etc. But as soon as you say, ‘Ours is also made in China’ that advantage goes away and you now have to be measured by the same set of scales that is measuring every other $50-$75 Chinese budget knife, and that standard is being set right before our eyes. Just look at the story of the Tenable Fenrir. People wanted a budget version of the Kansept Fenrir, so they made one, in a button lock format. Then people wanted a crossbar lock version, so a few months later, they released a crossbar lock version. Then people wanted a ‘top liner lock’ version, and 2 to 3 months later they released one.
The ‘demand-to-delivery’ timetable is almost unbelievable. Can Spyderco keep up with this? For example, the new Button Up model. Even before it’s announcement, the button lock is already outdated. Whenever it releases, we may see nearly everyone in the playing field with a button comp lock, except Spyderco, which is a brutal irony. We are still stuck with 8cr, button locks and liner locks. It feels like the 2010s, behind the times. There is so much innovation happening, at least designed to a certain dollar value.
Am I being too harsh? I am not trying to be. It’s just that this is the competition now, and if we are now talking China (Spyderco) vs China (every other budget maker), the handicap comes off and you have to keep up because people expect it.
My preference is still to leave China altogether to the new/shiny crowd because it seems like such a glaring mismatch to me, with Spyderco’s design approach feeling too careful/thorough for the ‘wham bam’ model of Chinese knife innovation and production speed. If you absolutely have to do China, then do a 14c28n Para 3 button compression lock with molded FRN ‘salt style’ scales which excites the budget folks, and draws them in to the American models w/ the better steels and quality. Done. Call it done so you don’t have to play keep up with all the new releases because you are going to lose. And heck, maybe you’ll stick it to the counterfeiters as well because why would you get a $30 ripoff when you could have a geniune (albeit Chinese) Spyderco for $30 more. And then that also satisfies the gateway folks as well.
Last edited by Red Leader on Fri Nov 07, 2025 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There seems to be a lot of thought and opinions on China, with regards to knives, especially since the latest reveal.
Some say we are no longer a leader in the industry because of the latest model offerings. (Manta 4, Buttonup, Shelter Cove, Goonie). Some say to ditch China altogether. some say build more in China, etc.
I would like for you to share your thoughts? Questions? Suggestions? Preferences? etc.? Please try to avoid Partisan Politics as much as possible.
Thanx,
sal
I really appreciate your bringing up this (potentially divisive and inflammatory) topic for direct discussion with the forum, Sal. It's a difficult and complicated conversation, but one that I think any Western knife manufacturer right now should be having with its customers.
I have bought Chinese-made folders (from Spyderco and other companies) in the past, but I'm significantly less likely to do so these days for personal reasons. But I am also a realist, and I understand that because of costs and the complex web of global logistics, most companies have to work with Chinese firms at some point in the supply chain. So a Chinese-made Spyderco isn't an automatic no-go for me. I'm more likely to buy a Golden, Seki, Taichung/Taiwan, or Maniago Spyderco, of course, but a Chinese Spyderco isn't entirely off the board, at least for now.
What I would like, however, is more transparency regarding the Chinese partners Spyderco chooses to work with, because doing so means consumers can then make more informed buying decisions.
As for Spyderco no longer being an industry leader because of the latest Chinese-made offerings in the recent reveal, I am not sure about that, as I don't know how one is supposed to define being an industry leader. I think Spyderco is still leagues ahead of most of the industry when it comes to steel innovation and keeping a variety of proven, original designs in active circulation. I don't know how competitive Spyderco is in the budget space, though, as I mostly buy and use Golden/Seki/Taichung Spydercos for regular work folder tasks and use "consumable" utility knives from companies like Fiskars or Klein Tools for work that I think might be too damaging for a proper folder.
That people do have to pay 6 times what they currently cost.
No offense to Sal but this "the yuan is 1/6 of USD" isn't a meaningful statement. The idea that they fix their currency relative to USD is economically important, but the ratio itself doesn't mean anything. Just as an example:
That people do have to pay 6 times what they currently cost.
No offense to Sal but this "the yuan is 1/6 of USD" isn't a meaningful statement. The idea that they fix their currency relative to USD is economically important, but the ratio itself doesn't mean anything. Just as an example:
It's really the purchasing power that matters. A quick meal in China might cost 50 yuan, or $8.
To simplify then, I want Chinese Knives to prohibitively cost more than US knives. People buy Chinese knives largely because they can undercut US makers on cost. I would like to see tariffs make them more expensive than US knives. So if someone buys one, it's for good design or superior quality, not because it's cheaper.
Last edited by ZrowsN1s on Sat Nov 08, 2025 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
