What do you view as the main grip on these types of knives?

[zuludelta]

On knives that offer a comfortable, full grip for you either using the choil, or behind the choil, what do you view as the main grip?

I voted "depends on the model".

There are smaller models that I can conceivably get a full grip behind the choil such as the Native 5 that I almost always grip using the choil. They only offer a theoretical four-finger grip behind the choil for me.

And then there are small knives (Para 3, Sage 5) that I tend to use the choil for the primary grip for comfort, but I will occasionally grip behind the choil to get some added reach.

And then there are full-sized and large models like the Para Military 2, Manix 2, Shaman, and Police 4 that I normally grip behind the choil, and I only usually use the choil on these models when working in confined spaces or if I want to use the heel of the blade for precise cutting/carving.

[kennethsime]

Of the Spyderco knives I own, only the Military and the Stretch 2 XL actually offer a comfortable grip behind the choil.

In these cases, I still mostly use the choil. Whether that's out of habit or to get closer to the edge is anyone's guess, but I do notice that sometimes the choil can serve as an impedance when cutting cardboard from behind the choil.

[Wartstein]

....

Military, Police and other knives with steep thumb ramps, I almost never use them.

Chief, Manix XL and other models with no thumb ramp or a shallow one, I use them 10-15% of the time or so.

Ah, yes, the thumb ramp thing...

Have said it often already, but might as well repeat it here since it fits:

I am certainly an outlier in almost never putting my thumb on the ramp (if one is there), but rather on the flat/side of the blade.
(I do like to put the finger on the spine though way in front of the ramp when pinching a blade with two or more fingers for detailed work)

IF I was a "thumb ramp user" this would probably change a lot and make me like choils less, since the thumb normally sits on the ramp really cramped when choking up on a choil.

[Danke]

I sure use a pinch grip a lot.

[Doc Dan]

Ah, the old snagging choil grip on a knife. A choil is a great way to keep the overall length of a small knife down, but choils snag on things (the Millie 1's better design is not as bad). I will grip a knife whichever way it fits my hand to do so, but I vastly prefer not to have a choil at all.

[VandymanG]

I always use the choil I find that it gives me more fine tuning control. I would buy more Delica knives if only they had a choil. I love the one I have with its thin slice blade but I keep wishing it had a choil.

[Cl1ff]

I don’t use the choils much.
I like more edge.

For a main grip, I tend to basically pinch the handle between the side of my thumb and palm/base of index finger.
When you choke up onto a finger choil, there is no handle to pinch and I think this is why I don’t use that grip.

I also prefer the edge to be close to the top of my thumb’s knuckle because that is the most anterior part of my grip or hand.

These also play into my preferences for taller handles and other things.

I don’t have a picture that shows what I’m talking about very well, but I’ll try to edit one in here when I do.

[vivi]

I don’t use the choils much.
I like more edge.

For a main grip, I tend to basically pinch the handle between the side of my thumb and palm/base of index finger.
When you choke up onto a finger choil, there is no handle to pinch and I think this is why I don’t use that grip.

I also prefer the edge to be close to the top of my thumb’s knuckle because that is the most anterior part of my grip or hand.

These also play into my preferences for taller handles and other things.

I don’t have a picture that shows what I’m talking about very well, but I’ll try to edit one in here when I do.

Like this?



I use this grip for some tasks.

[Cl1ff]

I don’t use the choils much.
I like more edge.

For a main grip, I tend to basically pinch the handle between the side of my thumb and palm/base of index finger.
When you choke up onto a finger choil, there is no handle to pinch and I think this is why I don’t use that grip.

I also prefer the edge to be close to the top of my thumb’s knuckle because that is the most anterior part of my grip or hand.

These also play into my preferences for taller handles and other things.

I don’t have a picture that shows what I’m talking about very well, but I’ll try to edit one in here when I do.

Like this?



I use this grip for some tasks.

I do use that grip, but it’s not what I meant.
Just think of a normal hammer grip.

I’ll make a more detailed post when I can.
I’ve also been meaning to start a thread about loupes, from the suggestion of BBB in the sharpening journal, but I have been busy and annoyingly unable to take more pictures with my phone.

[Coastal]

I seldom use a choil, even on small knives like UKPKs and Chaparrals. To me handles are just more comfortable than choils, so that's what I hold on to, even if it forces my pinky off the end.

[billdoier72]

I have XL hands so I seek out designs that incorporate a choil.

I really don't like to carry larger knives, so the choil give me the extra real estate i need for a comfortable grip.

Plus I really like the added control that choking up on the blade gives me.

So I obviously voted for the choil.

[Mr_Whiskerz]

I might choke up on a ricasso every now and then, as a rule though, I'm not big on choils. If a knife is small enough make you use the choil to get a full grip, I usually just don't buy that knife.

[RugerNurse]

I try to avoid the choil as much as I can. Finger slipped once on a native 5 and got me good. Measuring the space of the choil vs the ricasso part on the delica it’s about the same so it doesn’t matter to me holding that far back. I prefer to have my finger away from the edge. Love knives with the thumb ramp too.

[Wartstein]

I’ve also been meaning to start a thread about loupes....

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82628#p1298821

[vivi]

If a knife is small enough make you use the choil to get a full grip, I usually just don't buy that knife.

same. there's certain cuts I do where I don't want my hand so close to the blade because it'll get cut. I recently broke down a 3 layer thick pumkin shipping box and got a few cuts on my hands in the process. It'd have been much worse using, say, a dragonfly or caly jr.

[aicolainen]

I voted behind the choil, but the reality is much more nuanced.
I applied the same reasoning as Jsum to narrow it down, i.e. most knives over a certain size feels more natural to grip behind the choil, so that's my default grip or start position. The thing is though, I realize I switch grips rather subconsciously to adapt to the task - so I don't really know the real life number here.
And to complicate the answer even more, I carry small knives that pretty much dictates a choil grip (DF2 and Chap) way more than the larger knives where the choil grip is more optional.
I also carry the Native 5 a lot, which size wise is neither here nor there, and I don't really know how I use it. As strange as that may sound. It deviates a bit from the other models in that my small hand fit behind the choil, but it feels less natural than say a P3. But even though griping it with the choil feels more natural, I often find myself griping it behind the choil in actual use. Though this mostly happens when cutting against a surface.

As for choil or no choil? On knife designs/mechanisms that otherwise would require a ricasso, I'll rather have a choil most times. On designs/mechanisms that doesn't require a choil I'd prefer more edge most times. This is why I very much welcome the Bodacious, even though I don't think this first iteration is quite right for me.

[Bill1170]

I can not really tell what my main grip is because when i am using my Manixes or Shamans its about a 50/50 split for me if i use the choil or not.
It all kinda depends what i am cutting and how the acces to the thing i need to cut is.
Personally i do not understand the problem some people have with choils. I find them a great “option” in use and do not personally ever found it being in the way for me. The only thing it does for me is give me more blade controle depending if i need it or not so i think there great.

I wouldn't say I have a problem with them, as 3/4 of my favorite folding spydies have them, but I suspect I'd like many models better without them.

From my perspective, if I'm only using the choil on my manix XL 10% of the time, I'd get a lot more utility out of more cutting edge instead. In fact I drew a mock-up of a choil-less Manix XL and I love how it looks, but I can't find it at the moment.


But again, it isn't a deal breaker. There are times I like having the option of the choil, but I don't use them enough to value them much.

I’m in much the same boat. The choil is a nice way to get closer for better tip control on longer blades. I much prefer a full handle grip when applying significant force. For really delicate tip work I’ll just choke up and pinch the blade closer to the tip. Horses for courses.

My least favorite aspect of choils is the way they can snag on the media being cut. Things like fabric and plastic film are easier to cut with a folder whose edge extends back to the handle. The Caribbean and the Tenacious family are two good examples of this.

[CDEP]

On the Dragonfly 2 & Native 5 I probably choke up on the choil more than 50% of the time. All others only when I want more precise blade control. Though I may not use the choil on my PM2 CruCarta often, I am glad it is there, and always prefer models with choils. The larger the knife the more important it is for me to have a choil, but the "main" grip is always behind the choil for me.

That said, I am looking forward to trying the Bodacious.

[Flash]

I always choil. However not all choils are created equal…

The UKPK = perfect choil
Chaparral, native 5, and Shaman = excellent choil
dragonfly 2 = Good choil
PM2 and urban = OK choil
PM3 lw = awkward choil

I think it has a lot to do with the choils location in relation the the handle - if it’s set deeper than the handle, the more natural and comfortable it is for me. The PM’s seem to be raised from the handle, like your index finger is stepping up, hence rating them lower. With the urban the thumb ramp is raised too abruptly for good choil comfort.
Would like to see more choiless designs from Spyderco, but not ones that don’t take your index finger too far from the blade, like the Delica and it’s Seki stable mates do.

[Wartstein]

...

I think it has a lot to do with the choils location in relation the the handle - if it’s set deeper than the handle, the more natural and comfortable it is for me. The PM’s seem to be raised from the handle, like your index finger is stepping up, hence rating them lower. ...

Funny, for me it is the complete opposite:

I do NOT like too deep choils, but I do like when my index finger "is stepped up" so the area beneath the index finger is tall and not too recessed. Just gives me better control.

This is one reason why I love the shallow and "high" Stretch 1 (not Stretch 2) choil, this is probably also the main reason why the ricassos of Endura, Delica... work better for me than almost any dedicated choil.

Also true for fixed blade, where I got away from models with handles that are too thin beneath the index finger. I think knives like the Street Beat would not be for me due to that reason.