Best steels for serrations?

[wrdwrght]

I'm only an edge geometry Unitarian, not an acolyte of the Holy Order of SE.

:D

[Wartstein]

I dug out my SE Stretch so I can start spending more time with SE/VG10.

Sharpening really is a joy. I think it's easy to forget that VG10 was designed for cutlery use and it really excels at taking an edge. I'll have to really put it through some tests and dull it a bit, I'm really curious how it compares to SE/LC200N.


One nagging detail right off the bat is the serration pattern, being an older blade it's of the more "chunky" variety and not nearly as slicy as my Caribbean. I need to reprofile it and see if I can blend them in a bit more.

David, it would be great if you compare SE VG10 to SE LC200N!!

And very interesting what you said about the Stretch serration pattern!!! That´s what I thought and said when just looking at them (being more "chunky", more aggressive and less slicey than the ones on my Endela) when another forum member showed his newly aquired Stretch 1 SE...

So you also think that generally there is an "evolution" when it comes to Spydercos SE, and what I like to call the "modern" type is the more shallow and mellow one?

[Evil D]

So you also think that generally there is an "evolution" when it comes to Spydercos SE, and what I like to call the "modern" type is the more shallow and mellow one?

There seems to be, whether it's intentional or just a result of country of origin. How many other SE options has Taichung put out? Isn't the Caribbean the only one so far? The Endela does seem like a change since it comes from the same factory as the Stretch, so maybe they're listening and have tweaked the pattern a bit. I thought about getting an Endela but then the Rock Jumper has a handle that I think will better suit me and I like the sheepsfoot blade.

I'll start carrying this Stretch for work and I'll do some tests with it soon. I'm pretty sure I have most of the same materials I cut with the Caribbean.

[skeeg11]

Just as we question which steels are amenable to serrations, shouldn't we also question whether or not the size or depth of serrations makes a difference in which steel should/could be used? Sounds a bit OCD I know, but curious minds would like to know. Which serration pattern favors harder steels for instance. Perhaps even more importantly, the cutting characteristics or the serration geometries themselves. Wide, shallow, small or combo like Spyderco's. The reason I ask is because the serration pattern that gave me one of those epiphany moments had uniform moderately shallow scallops spaced 3/16" between points. Spyderco serrations are a wonderous thing, but I gotta wonder about the 2 small scallops between larger scallops. What do they add or detract from the functionality of the cut or does it depend upon the media being cut? Perhaps it's just Spyderco's interpretation of a general all purpose cover all bases serration grind. In the pursuit of form follows function, primary grinds are discussed all the time....Sabre, hollow, high hollow, full flat,convex, scandi, etc. Geometry of the serration edges where the cutting is actually done may be equally important. Would like to gain a fuller understanding of such. Please educate me.

[Evil D]

Just as we question which steels are amenable to serrations, shouldn't we also question whether or not the size or depth of serrations makes a difference in which steel should/could be used? Sounds a bit OCD I know, but curious minds would like to know. Which serration pattern favors harder steels for instance. Perhaps even more importantly, the cutting characteristics or the serration geometries themselves. Wide, shallow, small or combo like Spyderco's. The reason I ask is because the serration pattern that gave me one of those epiphany moments had uniform moderately shallow scallops spaced 3/16" between points. Spyderco serrations are a wonderous thing, but I gotta wonder about the 2 small scallops between larger scallops. What do they add or detract from the functionality of the cut or does it depend upon the media being cut? Perhaps it's just Spyderco's interpretation of a general all purpose cover all bases serration grind. In the pursuit of form follows function, primary grinds are discussed all the time....Sabre, hollow, high hollow, full flat,convex, scandi, etc. Geometry of the serration edges where the cutting is actually done may be equally important. Would like to gain a fuller understanding of such. Please educate me.

Oh I've been there done that. Beat it to death really.

viewtopic.php?t=84985

[shunsui]

Some interesting information about H1 serrations.

https://youtu.be/ZyPT3se7L3Y

[The Meat man]

Oh I've been there done that. Beat it to death really.

viewtopic.php?t=84985

David I couldn't remember the name of that thread and just spent about 10 minutes combing through forum searches to find it. Now you beat me to it. :p

That's a great thread with tons of good information.

[skeeg11]

Just as we question which steels are amenable to serrations, shouldn't we also question whether or not the size or depth of serrations makes a difference in which steel should/could be used? Sounds a bit OCD I know, but curious minds would like to know. Which serration pattern favors harder steels for instance. Perhaps even more importantly, the cutting characteristics or the serration geometries themselves. Wide, shallow, small or combo like Spyderco's. The reason I ask is because the serration pattern that gave me one of those epiphany moments had uniform moderately shallow scallops spaced 3/16" between points. Spyderco serrations are a wonderous thing, but I gotta wonder about the 2 small scallops between larger scallops. What do they add or detract from the functionality of the cut or does it depend upon the media being cut? Perhaps it's just Spyderco's interpretation of a general all purpose cover all bases serration grind. In the pursuit of form follows function, primary grinds are discussed all the time....Sabre, hollow, high hollow, full flat,convex, scandi, etc. Geometry of the serration edges where the cutting is actually done may be equally important. Would like to gain a fuller understanding of such. Please educate me.

Oh I've been there done that. Beat it to death really.

viewtopic.php?t=84985

Thanks David. I knew I could count on you. :) Will be reading this many times. I suppose my biggest question was in terms of functionality, what do the two smaller scallops between the larger ones actually contribute or detract from the performance under varying circumstances as opposed to having all larger scallops?

[Evil D]

Thanks David. I knew I could count on you. :) Will be reading this many times. I suppose my biggest question was in terms of functionality, what do the two smaller scallops between the larger ones actually contribute or detract from the performance as opposed to having all larger scallops?

That's probably a question Sal could answer better than me because I've asked the same thing. I know he commented once about testing various patterns and found that the large/small small/large was most effective, and now it's practically an industry standard among many brands. We've had several threads about serration patterns and what we'd all like to try but I have my doubts that it'll change much more than what we've seen in recent years with them getting slightly wider and shallower. My guess is the smaller scallops are more grabby and help to cut smaller fibers in rope and such. Eventually if you make them all wide and do away with the small serrations it seems like you'd start to lose cutting aggression. In the beginning I really had concerns about sharpening the small ones but it's really not an issue at all on a Sharpmaker.

[Evil D]

Some interesting information about H1 serrations.

https://youtu.be/ZyPT3se7L3Y

Around that time I was not yet interested in SE so I never gave that knife a second thought but I'm thinking I need one now, probably for the same reason they mention in the video (for my EDC bag).

What he mentions about the range of work hardening is really interesting. I hope it's something they continue looking into and figure out how to get the same effects on other H1 models. It also explains how some people's experience with Salt knives differs from others.

[Sumdumguy]

Some interesting information about H1 serrations.

https://youtu.be/ZyPT3se7L3Y

Around that time I was not yet interested in SE so I never gave that knife a second thought but I'm thinking I need one now, probably for the same reason they mention in the video (for my EDC bag).

What he mentions about the range of work hardening is really interesting. I hope it's something they continue looking into and figure out how to get the same effects on other H1 models. It also explains how some people's experience with Salt knives differs from others.

It's been on my radar for about a year. But, it never seems to make it past the cart.

What I really want is a Rock Salt in LC200N, with some extra weight added to the tip.

[JMM]

I dug out my SE Stretch so I can start spending more time with SE/VG10.

Sharpening really is a joy. I think it's easy to forget that VG10 was designed for cutlery use and it really excels at taking an edge. I'll have to really put it through some tests and dull it a bit, I'm really curious how it compares to SE/LC200N.


One nagging detail right off the bat is the serration pattern, being an older blade it's of the more "chunky" variety and not nearly as slicy as my Caribbean. I need to reprofile it and see if I can blend them in a bit more.

As a new owner of the same SE Stretch, I'm incredibly interested in what it is you do here... please be verbose with your findings :D

[zhyla]

I’ve only got experience with a few non-exciting steels in SE: VG-10, S30V, 154CM, ATS-55, and everybody’s favorite 8CrMoV13. But I would be very hesitant to buy SE in a whizbang hard to sharpen steel. Sharpening SE is tedious.

Without having see any quantity of data on SE with different steels my guess is that SE behaves the same as PE in different steels while it’s very sharp but as the edge dulls I suspect the steel difference matters much less than for PE.

I’ve been carrying my SE Stretch lately and on a whim pulled out an old SE Police. I don’t carry the police much because, frankly, it’s scary. But it had not been used since I sharpened and “power stropped” with a dremel and polishing compound. My goodness that thing cuts. I think the most important thing with SE is to sharpen it as frequently as you would PE to keep it slicing well.

[Bill1170]

I keep a Byrd rescue knife in the console of my car. Occasionally I use it to open a bag of chips and am struck by how sharp it is. It still has its factory edge. It took me serious effort on the Sharpmaker to attain equivalent keenness on my Pacific Salt, which was merely okay when it was new.

[JD Spydo]

I’ve only got experience with a few non-exciting steels in SE: VG-10, S30V, 154CM, ATS-55, and everybody’s favorite 8CrMoV13. But I would be very hesitant to buy SE in a whizbang hard to sharpen steel. Sharpening SE is tedious.

Without having see any quantity of data on SE with different steels my guess is that SE behaves the same as PE in different steels while it’s very sharp but as the edge dulls I suspect the steel difference matters much less than for PE.

I’ve been carrying my SE Stretch lately and on a whim pulled out an old SE Police. I don’t carry the police much because, frankly, it’s scary. But it had not been used since I sharpened and “power stropped” with a dremel and polishing compound. My goodness that thing cuts. I think the most important thing with SE is to sharpen it as frequently as you would PE to keep it slicing well.

Well "zhyla" I've found that even banged up serrations can be done in good time if you got the right tools to sharpen it with. I got some of those DMT conical diamond stones and they are great for getting the worst of it done and then go finish it with the 204 Sharpmaker or other ceramic sharpening tools.

Oh all the serrated blades I've sharpened over the years the only one to ever give me fits was 440V>> but 440V is a monster to sharpen no matter what type of edge you have. In my words 440V should be acknowledged as another definition for the word "punishment">> because it is punishment to sharpen that steel.

[Knivesinedc]

I personally have always found serrated edges to be easier to sharpen and keep sharp. I understand this is the Spyderco discussion area, but in the interest of furthering information in the discussion, I'm going to bring up my Microtech Socom elite. I have a combo edge model and I always liked the way that the serrations looked. Now that I own one, I can also say they cut extremely well for how deep and aggressive the scallops are. The blade is M390, has phenomenal edge retention and I really have had almost zero issue sharpening the teeth back to a razors edge on my humble Sharpmaker after a LOT of carboard cutting. Now, I used to have a 440v millie that was all teeth. That was a difficult knife to sharpen because that 440v was so hard! It held an edge forever but was a little chippy in my usage. Overall my favorite steel for serrations is genuinely VG10, provided the scallops are deeper and the edge is a little thinner. That combo seems to work beautifully together.

[James Y]

Some interesting information about H1 serrations.

https://youtu.be/ZyPT3se7L3Y

I’m not a big fixed blade aficionado, but the Jumpmaster 2 is a model I’m definitely interested in.

Jim

[Wartstein]

Some interesting information about H1 serrations.

https://youtu.be/ZyPT3se7L3Y

Very interesting indeed... Eric confirmes in that vid that SE H1 (particullary in that Jumpmaster) outcuts everything else they´ve tested when it comes to edge retention... and (at least when the vid was made) they still don´t fully "understand" SE H1...

Plus: Having this knife in a bugout bag (like Sal and Eric have according to the vid) is maybe one of the best choices one can make in that regard "knifewise" (while folders like the, well, Benchmade Bugout not so much imho... at least as an only knife (to be clear: The bugout certainly may be a great folder in many other regards!)

[Evil D]

Wrong thread.

[JD Spydo]

I personally have always found serrated edges to be easier to sharpen and keep sharp. I understand this is the Spyderco discussion area, but in the interest of furthering information in the discussion, I'm going to bring up my Microtech Socom elite. I have a combo edge model and I always liked the way that the serrations looked. Now that I own one, I can also say they cut extremely well for how deep and aggressive the scallops are. The blade is M390, has phenomenal edge retention and I really have had almost zero issue sharpening the teeth back to a razors edge on my humble Sharpmaker after a LOT of carboard cutting. Now, I used to have a 440v millie that was all teeth. That was a difficult knife to sharpen because that 440v was so hard! It held an edge forever but was a little chippy in my usage. Overall my favorite steel for serrations is genuinely VG10, provided the scallops are deeper and the edge is a little thinner. That combo seems to work beautifully together.

440V is a absolute MONSTER :eek: To sharpen. I don't care if it's plain edge, serrated edge or combo edge they are all monsters to sharpen if the blade is made of 440V. But I will say that 440V is one of very favorite blade steels for serrated edges. It is one of the most durable blade steels for hard work I've ever used.

I will also agree with you on VG-10>> I've never had VG-10 teeth ever chip on me except one isolated occasion. But I was so brutal with that knife that day I'm surprised I didn't completely snap the blade.

I like Microtech's and Benchmades combo edged models myself. They both have a really decent serration pattern. I believe even Spyderco as good as they are could learn something from both companies serrations.