Spyderco Forums

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:25 am**

So I was setting up to sharpen a T15 mule and before I started I wanted to clean her up. It still had whatever coating(oil?) they had put on it from the factory(I didn't clean that off first) so I put barkeepers friend on it, scrubbed it down, and it has a bunch if tarnish/rust all over it I can't seem to get off. It's almost like whatever was sitting in the oil coating has set into the steel. Tried dawn soap & water(should have done that first thing) and acetone but nothing has changed. Thoughts?

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:49 am**

That is a patina, nothing to worry about since you've removed the active 'red rust' with BKF already. That said, you need some kind of wax or chemical rust preventative in order to keep both forms of rust away. You can also force a patina potentially assuming the steel doesn't resist it too heavily.

I'd not use something too aggressive but lemon juice is pretty acidic and should work if nothing else does. I'd recommend Eezox if you want to keep rust away, it's food safe when applied correct (dry to touch) or Odie's Oil/Wax products if you don't like the chemical approach as there's really no smell/toxicity in applying.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:46 am**

Cranberry juice is the best slow patina thing going. Just check every hour after the first 2 hours to the level you want

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:27 am**

Traditional.Sharpening wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:49 am
That is a patina, nothing to worry about since you've removed the active 'red rust' with BKF already. That said, you need some kind of wax or chemical rust preventative in order to keep both forms of rust away. You can also force a patina potentially assuming the steel doesn't resist it too heavily.

I'd not use something too aggressive but lemon juice is pretty acidic and should work if nothing else does. I'd recommend Eezox if you want to keep rust away, it's food safe when applied correct (dry to touch) or Odie's Oil/Wax products if you don't like the chemical approach as there's really no smell/toxicity in applying.

... but here's the thing. It was perfectly fine before I put bkf on it and scrubbed it. Not a single sign of patina or rust. Wish I would have taken a picture before hand. Also, I despise patina and or rust. Was actually sharpening it before sending it(as well as a 15V, & a K294) for cerakote so I don't have to deal with corrosion. I'm trying to figure out what happened chemically to have that settle immediately.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:31 am**

tcarltonw wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:27 am

Traditional.Sharpening wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:49 am
That is a patina, nothing to worry about since you've removed the active 'red rust' with BKF already. That said, you need some kind of wax or chemical rust preventative in order to keep both forms of rust away. You can also force a patina potentially assuming the steel doesn't resist it too heavily.

I'd not use something too aggressive but lemon juice is pretty acidic and should work if nothing else does. I'd recommend Eezox if you want to keep rust away, it's food safe when applied correct (dry to touch) or Odie's Oil/Wax products if you don't like the chemical approach as there's really no smell/toxicity in applying.
... but here's the thing. It was perfectly fine before I put bkf on it and scrubbed it. Not a single sign of patina or rust. Wish I would have taken a picture before hand. Also, I despise patina and or rust. Was actually sharpening it before sending it(as well as a 15V, & a K294) for cerakote so I don't have to deal with corrosion. I'm trying to figure out what happened chemically to have that settle immediately.

BKF has acid in it and there's a note to remove/rinse before a minute has elapsed. I've noticed it will cause some patina in just a short time, even under a minute. If it bothers you then you can remove it with Scotchbrite hand pads rubbed along the direction of the scratch pattern from the satin. Don't go across or you'll notice it scratch and look terrible.

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2023 4:08 am**

Try using Flitz All Metal Polish. It takes away surface rust pretty well.

Posted: **Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:36 am**

The reason I posted this was the try and find out what is put on corrosion prone steels from the factory in hopes to figure what happened chemically as well as document my mistake so no one else makes it. I had done a deep clean on a cpl of my other fixed blades(non-mules) the morning before and went straight to the bkf instead of cleaning off the layer of oil/lubricant that was on it from the factory(started like 10 min dt3r I woke up at 4).So... out of the box, knife shows no signs of patina/rust, has coating from factory, , little bit of hot water, bkf straight on it(sat for 10s tops) & scrubbed with tooth brush, immediately is covered with patina/rust. Tried to clean it after with multiple things and nothing.

Next step is to hand sand everything. Will not be making this same mistake in the future.

P.S. Sal, do you know(or can you share) what is applied to the mules out of Taichung before packaging?

P.S.S. thank yall for yalls replies

Posted: **Thu Sep 07, 2023 6:15 am**

tcarltonw wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:36 am
The reason I posted this was the try and find out what is put on corrosion prone steels from the factory in hopes to figure what happened chemically as well as document my mistake so no one else makes it. I had done a deep clean on a cpl of my other fixed blades(non-mules) the morning before and went straight to the bkf instead of cleaning off the layer of oil/lubricant that was on it from the factory(started like 10 min dt3r I woke up at 4).So... out of the box, knife shows no signs of patina/rust, has coating from factory, , little bit of hot water, bkf straight on it(sat for 10s tops) & scrubbed with tooth brush, immediately is covered with patina/rust. Tried to clean it after with multiple things and nothing.

Next step is to hand sand everything. Will not be making this same mistake in the future.

P.S. Sal, do you know(or can you share) what is applied to the mules out of Taichung before packaging?

P.S.S. thank yall for yalls replies

It has nothing to do with what was applied to protect the steel, I'm assuming you feel there was some sort of reaction there? It's not anything more than heat and acid working it's magic on a steel with little corrosion resistance. BKF says right on the package to both rinse off before 1 minute of being applied AND to also test on an inconspicuous spot to assure it will not have what you presume to be a detrimental effect. Hot water by itself can definitely discolor steel as well.

Posted: **Thu Sep 07, 2023 6:20 am**

tcarltonw wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:27 am
... but here's the thing. It was perfectly fine before I put bkf on it and scrubbed it. Not a single sign of patina or rust. Wish I would have taken a picture before hand. Also, I despise patina and or rust. Was actually sharpening it before sending it(as well as a 15V, & a K294) for cerakote so I don't have to deal with corrosion. I'm trying to figure out what happened chemically to have that settle immediately.

I believe that metal surfaces actually need to be sandblasted prior to applying cerakote to get the best adhesion of the coating. Assuming you do cerakote the knife there's absolutely no reason to do anything with the knife if you are sending it off to someone who actually does the application process correctly as the sandblasting will absolutely cut through that very fine layer of oxidation. I've gotten knives over the years done by BlownDeadline and there are always signs of aggressive sandblasting on the handles underneath the coating.

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:39 am**

I appreciate all of your replies but I think you've made your thoughts very clear. I'd like to hear from someone that could answer my questions about what is applied so I can look into it. Also, BKF was rinsed off after 10-15 sec and the guy who I go to for cerakote has already told me he sandblasts everything so I'm no longer worried about that. Hope all is well everyone.

Posted: **Mon Oct 02, 2023 5:46 am**

tcarltonw wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:39 am
the guy who I go to for cerakote has already told me he sandblasts everything so I'm no longer worried about that. Hope all is well everyone.

What colour you going mate ??, something bold and colourful, seen some out there colours lately…

Heaps to pick from nowadays

Posted: **Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:27 am**

I'm not positive on what colors he has but my plan is to alternate between Armor Black or Sig Grey and have the spidey logo done in different colors so I know which steel is which. I'm a big black and grey guy. Have a set of quarter sawn bog oak scales I'm itching to use. Think I'm going to do Armor Black with the spider logo in the closest match to earth brown for 15V.

Posted: **Tue Dec 19, 2023 11:38 pm**

mine has the same patina but i always kept it oiled maybe its time to try a acid stone wash

Posted: **Sat Mar 02, 2024 3:57 pm**

To me the patina and scratches are just part of the journey that a knife takes. It tells a story that can be seen at a glance. I never liked carbon steel before I got involved with the Spyderco mules but I’ve come to prefer it because I can’t wait to see the next gradual change in the color of the next scratch. See way too many pristine knife pictures and that gets boring.

Posted: **Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:36 pm**

VandymanG wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2024 3:57 pm
To me the patina and scratches are just part of the journey that a knife takes. It tells a story that can be seen at a glance. I never liked carbon steel before I got involved with the Spyderco mules but I’ve come to prefer it because I can’t wait to see the next gradual change in the color of the next scratch. See way too many pristine knife pictures and that gets boring.

I don't like rust/tarnish/patina any kind of oxidation... I use my stuff but am anal about taking care of it. This thread took a turn somewhere. My intention was to figure out what chemical reaction took place.

Posted: **Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:54 pm**

tcarltonw wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:36 pm

VandymanG wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2024 3:57 pm
To me the patina and scratches are just part of the journey that a knife takes. It tells a story that can be seen at a glance. I never liked carbon steel before I got involved with the Spyderco mules but I’ve come to prefer it because I can’t wait to see the next gradual change in the color of the next scratch. See way too many pristine knife pictures and that gets boring.
I don't like rust/tarnish/patina any kind of oxidation... I use my stuff but am anal about taking care of it. This thread took a turn somewhere. My intention was to figure out what chemical reaction took place.

Are you still wondering what sort of reaction took place? I do not mean this to come off rude but it's simply called rust. Whether you want to call it patina/tarnish/oxidation/rust(oh dear) OR Fe2O3.H2O, it's all the same for the most part.

https://sciencing.com/write-chemical-re ... 58862.html

Posted: **Fri Mar 08, 2024 7:54 am**

You're wasting your time. He's blaming Taichung's oil so it won't be his fault that he rusted his carbon steel knife using stainless steel cleaner.

Posted: **Fri Mar 08, 2024 6:58 pm**

yablanowitz wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 08, 2024 7:54 am
You're wasting your time. He's blaming Taichung's oil so it won't be his fault that he rusted his carbon steel knife using stainless steel cleaner.

Perhaps, in general it's really impossible to know a person's motives for posting these sorts of things.

Posted: **Sat Mar 09, 2024 6:17 pm**

I’m my experience, this steel has just WANTED to rust.

I’ve even oiled with mineral oil, and gotten fingerprints that have stained into it.

What I’ve been doing is just using it as a dedicated meat knife and developing a patina. I’d probably also do the same by just handling the handle normally until one appears.

This steel wants to pit too, so overall a blued oiled finish would work the best, but acid etched works about as well

Posted: **Sat Mar 09, 2024 9:50 pm**

The good ol' internet... it's like having a face to face conversation but with way more assumptions being made and no fear of running your mouth.

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