I've been using the Sharpmaker system for about 10 years now as my only system with great success. I've got the diamond rods down to the ultra fine, and typically set the edge at 30 inclusive and microbevel with a few light passes at 40. Along with a strop, I've had no issues keeping things hair-popping sharp from S110v to ZDP-189... except for one of my favorite chef knives.
It's a large gyuto, and the core layer is blue super steel. No matter what pressure, angle (30 or 40), or rod I seem to start or finish with the edget wants to flake/chip/string off. I typically use a bit more pressure to build a burr, then progressively decrease pressure until it is gone. I've tried starting with very light pressure (basically the weight of the knife) but still get the same results. Any ideas?
I have not, the Sharpmaker is my only sharpening system aside from a strop.
I do have another santoku in super blue that I have no problem getting sticky sharp. I'm wondering if this guyuto is just too thin behind the edge for the sharpmaker.
Cut that nasty burr off by gently cutting into your brown rods like you're trying to cut the rod in half. Literally blunt the edge till it's smooth and consistent, then start making alternating passes on the diamond rods until the edge no longer reflects light under a bright light. Some steels just don't respond well to heavy burrs and you're better off making as little as possible. I'm surprised you haven't had this issue with ZDP, I've had it burr and fractured off and get caught in this endless sharpening process that seems like you never reach an apex.
Cut that nasty burr off by gently cutting into your brown rods like you're trying to cut the rod in half. Literally blunt the edge till it's smooth and consistent, then start making alternating passes on the diamond rods until the edge no longer reflects light under a bright light. Some steels just don't respond well to heavy burrs and you're better off making as little as possible. I'm surprised you haven't had this issue with ZDP, I've had it burr and fractured off and get caught in this endless sharpening process that seems like you never reach an apex.
I'll give that a try. Would you start with the flats or corners of the diamond rods? And light or normal pressure to start?
Cut that nasty burr off by gently cutting into your brown rods like you're trying to cut the rod in half. Literally blunt the edge till it's smooth and consistent, then start making alternating passes on the diamond rods until the edge no longer reflects light under a bright light. Some steels just don't respond well to heavy burrs and you're better off making as little as possible. I'm surprised you haven't had this issue with ZDP, I've had it burr and fractured off and get caught in this endless sharpening process that seems like you never reach an apex.
I'll give that a try. Would you start with the flats or corners of the diamond rods? And light or normal pressure to start?
Flats have a larger surface area and will be less aggressive than the corners so I'd start there with light passes, let the diamonds do the work. Keep watching under a desk lamp or something for the edge to stop reflecting light when looking straight into it.
Wow, I have never seen that before. Maybe it is because I don't usually use very hard, more heavily alloyed steels. I do have a gyuto that is very thin bte and hard, but it is simple 80crV2. All of my other knives are softer.
I can't tell exactly what level of zoom this picture is at. Is the chippy portion just the micro bevel, or is that the whole secondary bevel?
If the gyuto is super thin behind the edge, it could simply be too much force on the edge causing it to deform laterally and fracture. The thinner the edge, the less force you should use. Very thin and hard Super Blue will be chippy under lateral force.
I ran into a similar problem with my Yamashin white #1 sujihiki.
Initial edge was pretty poor. Set out to give it a thinner one on a coarse diamond plate. The edge started crumbling and chipping apart.
I've never seen any other japanese knife behave that way, including one of my most used ones, a 6" white #1 petty that's much thinner BTE that's responded fine to coarse diamond plates.
One of these days I'll give putting an edge on it another go. In the meantime I went back to my Victorinox slicer for work duty.
Cut that nasty burr off by gently cutting into your brown rods like you're trying to cut the rod in half. Literally blunt the edge till it's smooth and consistent, then start making alternating passes on the diamond rods until the edge no longer reflects light under a bright light. Some steels just don't respond well to heavy burrs and you're better off making as little as possible. I'm surprised you haven't had this issue with ZDP, I've had it burr and fractured off and get caught in this endless sharpening process that seems like you never reach an apex.
I'll give that a try. Would you start with the flats or corners of the diamond rods? And light or normal pressure to start?
Flats have a larger surface area and will be less aggressive than the corners so I'd start there with light passes, let the diamonds do the work. Keep watching under a desk lamp or something for the edge to stop reflecting light when looking straight into it.
Wow, I have never seen that before. Maybe it is because I don't usually use very hard, more heavily alloyed steels. I do have a gyuto that is very thin bte and hard, but it is simple 80crV2. All of my other knives are softer.
I can't tell exactly what level of zoom this picture is at. Is the chippy portion just the micro bevel, or is that the whole secondary bevel?
In that pic there is no micro bevel, just the FFG blade and a 40 inclusive edge set by the sharpmaker diamond stones. It looks the same as I get to the finer stones, just more polished on the chips and hairs of steel breaking off. I used my camera's macro lens.
I ran into a similar problem with my Yamashin white #1 sujihiki.
Initial edge was pretty poor. Set out to give it a thinner one on a coarse diamond plate. The edge started crumbling and chipping apart.
I've never seen any other japanese knife behave that way, including one of my most used ones, a 6" white #1 petty that's much thinner BTE that's responded fine to coarse diamond plates.
One of these days I'll give putting an edge on it another go. In the meantime I went back to my Victorinox slicer for work duty.
That looks a lot like what I'm experiencing. I've got a couple other high end japanese knives (petty VG10 and santoku super blue) that never have any issue.
The edge just wants to chip and flake off in stringy sections rather than refine.
I ran into a similar problem with my Yamashin white #1 sujihiki.
Initial edge was pretty poor. Set out to give it a thinner one on a coarse diamond plate. The edge started crumbling and chipping apart.
I've never seen any other japanese knife behave that way, including one of my most used ones, a 6" white #1 petty that's much thinner BTE that's responded fine to coarse diamond plates.
One of these days I'll give putting an edge on it another go. In the meantime I went back to my Victorinox slicer for work duty.
That looks a lot like what I'm experiencing. I've got a couple other high end japanese knives (petty VG10 and santoku super blue) that never have any issue.
The edge just wants to chip and flake off in stringy sections rather than refine.
It is extremely thin BTE.
I don't know. It sounds like a burr hanging around since it flakes off in stringy sections.
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Huh, that is very strange. I don't have any experience with the situation, so I'm very curious to see if you can find a solution. Usually a bad heat treat is my last assumption, but I guess it can happen. Hopefully that isn't the case here though.
I just wanted to close the loop on this thread and thank you for the tip. I essentially sawed off the burred edge as you suggested and slowly worked with the diamond rod flats at 40 inclusive to form a new edge. I'll see how this does and probably reset to 30 inclusive if it holds up well, but the tearing mess I previously has seems to be gone.
This picture shows the blade now, using light strokes on the flats of the Sharpmaker stones at 40 deg inc, and taken down to the fine grit stones. The edge is behaving normally, and can treetop hairs. Your advice was spot on!
I just wanted to close the loop on this thread and thank you for the tip. I essentially sawed off the burred edge as you suggested and slowly worked with the diamond rod flats at 40 inclusive to form a new edge. I'll see how this does and probably reset to 30 inclusive if it holds up well, but the tearing mess I previously has seems to be gone.
This picture shows the blade now, using light strokes on the flats of the Sharpmaker stones at 40 deg inc, and taken down to the fine grit stones. The edge is behaving normally, and can treetop hairs. Your advice was spot on!
DSC06566.jpg
I'm glad it helped! Destressing an edge is a critical part in sharpening that most people skip.
I just wanted to close the loop on this thread and thank you for the tip. I essentially sawed off the burred edge as you suggested and slowly worked with the diamond rod flats at 40 inclusive to form a new edge. I'll see how this does and probably reset to 30 inclusive if it holds up well, but the tearing mess I previously has seems to be gone.
This picture shows the blade now, using light strokes on the flats of the Sharpmaker stones at 40 deg inc, and taken down to the fine grit stones. The edge is behaving normally, and can treetop hairs. Your advice was spot on!
DSC06566.jpg
I'm glad it helped! Destressing an edge is a critical part in sharpening that most people skip.
Cliff Stamp (RIP) was a huge proponent of this approach.
I just wanted to close the loop on this thread and thank you for the tip. I essentially sawed off the burred edge as you suggested and slowly worked with the diamond rod flats at 40 inclusive to form a new edge. I'll see how this does and probably reset to 30 inclusive if it holds up well, but the tearing mess I previously has seems to be gone.
This picture shows the blade now, using light strokes on the flats of the Sharpmaker stones at 40 deg inc, and taken down to the fine grit stones. The edge is behaving normally, and can treetop hairs. Your advice was spot on!
DSC06566.jpg
I'm glad it helped! Destressing an edge is a critical part in sharpening that most people skip.
Cliff Stamp (RIP) was a huge proponent of this approach.
Yep he's who I learned it from. Sounded absolutely insane at the time but it makes sense especially on certain steels.
