I was watching Metal Complex's comparison of the Bodacious + the Shaman this morning, and he made a point that stuck out to me. I've copied the video here for anyone who's interested.
MC's point was simply that he wished the Bodacious had the same contoured G-10 handle scales as the Shaman. I think that's a worthwhile point - I'd love it, personally, even though it would probably mean an increase in price (we'll leave that topic alone today).
To take it one step further, I'd like to suggest that the Bodacious actually should be the one with the contoured scales + the thicker blade stock, and the Shaman should be the one with the thinner scales + blade stock.
Here's the rundown:
The chief advantage of the edge-forward design of the Bodacious is to get you more leverage for hard cutting tasks, since you can get a full-fisted hammer grip right up next to the edge.
The chief advantage of the contoured handle scales of the Shaman is to reduce hotspots, and make the knife more comfortable during hard cutting tasks.
The chief advantage of the thicker blade stock on the Shaman is to add toughness to the blade so that it holds up during hard cutting tasks.
The chief advantage of the 50/50 choil on the Shaman is to offer a variety of grips, and give you more precision with the tip of the knife. This is mostly an advantage for pocket knives used for finer, detail-oriented work.
The chief advantage of the thinner blade stock + handle scales on the Bodacious is to make the knife more pocket-friendly (and ostensibly, to make it more affordable). In every other way, it is a compromise.
So then, I wonder: who's going to make contoured micarta scales for the Bodacious, and how soon can I order them?
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
in regards to the bodacious handle having the same deep handle champhers as the shaman, i could be wrong but i dont think the geometry of the bodacious' handle allows for it in the same way, the section of the handle at the front guard is a tight and narrow space, perhaps not allowing for a deep champher, the radius on the curves on the shamans handle at the choil are much wider curves. if you notice the very top of the shamans handle its not deeply champhered because of the abrupt transition at the top two corners of the handle. regardless even if its not possible to execute the same kind of champhering the shaman has, i definitely think its still left too blocky and they could have done more champhering even if its not as pronounced as the shamans. they appear like complete 90 degree corners.. and it sorta perplexes me that they left the g10 smooth and didnt add the same peelply texture as mostly all standard g10 spydercos like the pm2, i would think a knife also especially geared toward tougher use would benefit of having a grippy texture on the handle, i feel like it kind of goes against the philosophy of why they do peeply g10 to not put it on this handle, especially when they did flat blocky scales like on the pm2.
I love everything about the Shaman, and am a member of Team Choil, for sure. Was thinking for a long time that I'd pass on Bodacious, but when I saw MC's video I had the opposite reaction to his.
What made me order was the combo of the blade stock and the thinner, blocky smooth G10 scales - kinda like the KC Native 5 exclusive in CruWear. With the added cutting edge it's different enough to have a place separate from the Shaman. And if it feels in hand a bit more like the Native 5, well that can only be a plus.
I wouldn't want a thing to change about the Shaman, and the Bodacious looks like it will be it's own new Native Family design - not just a Shaman without a choil. I plan to carry the Bodacious as my main slicer and the Shaman as my beast and see how that works out.
Bodacious! Nice looking knife, I might want one. Of course I took out my Sages, the Sage is near the same with the same steel. Oh yes, Sage is smaller.
I will wait.
Eh, I think OP may be overthinking things. The Bodacious is a $260 knife. It doesn’t exist for hard use. Few buyers are doing serious bushcraft work with it, or taking it to a construction yard, or whatever true hard use you can think of.
Instead, it exists to delight enthusiasts. I was surprised it didn’t inherit the contoured handles. But those add cost and make the knife thicker to carry.
MetalComplex is an impressive enthusiast. Fun to watch. But he gets knives for free and then monologues about $400 knives as if they are utilitarian tools. Hilarious IMO.
Eh, I think OP may be overthinking things. The Bodacious is a $260 knife. It doesn’t exist for hard use. Few buyers are doing serious bushcraft work with it, or taking it to a construction yard, or whatever true hard use you can think of.
Instead, it exists to delight enthusiasts. I was surprised it didn’t inherit the contoured handles. But those add cost and make the knife thicker to carry.
MetalComplex is an impressive enthusiast. Fun to watch. But he gets knives for free and then monologues about $400 knives as if they are utilitarian tools. Hilarious IMO.
I have to disagree... actually, in a way the rarer and/or more expensive a Spydie is, the more I feel the urge of really testing, using and beating on it... just cause it is what it is, a very well thought through and exectued cutting tool.
If I had a Bodacious I could not wait to take it to a construction yard or the outdoors and use it as much as possible. I mean that´s what it was designed for, right?
So I think the Bodacious DOES exist for hard use... if many "hard users" actually will BUY one is another question of course, but I hope and think most who DO buy one WILL use it (also "hard"...)
Top three going by pocket-time (update April 25):
- EDC: Endela SE (K390). Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10), Chaparral SE (CTS XHP)
- Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 2 SE (LC200N), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), Endela SE (K390)
So I think the Bodacious DOES exist for hard use... if many "hard users" actually will BUY one is another question of course, but I hope and think most who DO buy one WILL use it (also "hard"...)
Yeah, this is what I meant. Kind of like rich people buy high end track oriented Porsches only to drive them on the street. It’s just how things go I suppose.
Eh, I think OP may be overthinking things. The Bodacious is a $260 knife. It doesn’t exist for hard use. Few buyers are doing serious bushcraft work with it, or taking it to a construction yard, or whatever true hard use you can think of.
Instead, it exists to delight enthusiasts. I was surprised it didn’t inherit the contoured handles. But those add cost and make the knife thicker to carry.
MetalComplex is an impressive enthusiast. Fun to watch. But he gets knives for free and then monologues about $400 knives as if they are utilitarian tools. Hilarious IMO.
The bodacious may not be build to be the Shaman's equal in robustness but believe me if you handled the knife you know it can take a beating.
On the handle side it lacking the Shaman's contouring can not be price related as the Shaman costs the same as the bodacious!
Personally i find this the only design item on the knife that its lacking. And at the price its selling its kinda a killer flaw.
Most People who want to pay that much for a knife will generally see the Shaman as more premium to the bodacious just for its scales alone and there for i see them gladly pay the 5$ the Shaman costs more then go for the Bodacious with its flat scales.
Now i do not have anything against flat scales but they could have atleast done something to them to stand out like a pivot ring or some groving like some sebenza's have for example and that way give the knife something more worthy of a premium feel for a model that here in Europe is a +300€ knife.
I'm really glad that many people are finally speaking up on the elephant in the room with this knife that I believe is a wonderful design and an excellent entry into the Spyderco family.
Personally, I just wish Spyderco would be more consistent with regards to scale chamfering. Why do I say this?
Look at the majority of Seki and Taichung G-10 offerings and how their handles nearly melt in your hands because of the excellent chamfering. For Golden models, you have the Para 3 LW and of course the Shaman with their comfortable handles.
But for the rest of the Golden G-10s, it seems that the tinier the chamfering, the better. Looking at the ergonomics of the Military/2, PM2, Para 3, Manix 2, Native Chief, Native 5, Lil Native...I'm just thinking of how the excellent ergonomic designs of Sal and Eric could be taken to the next level of comfort if only they had chamfers like the Police 4, the Ayoob, even the China made G-10s.
I just don't get the logic that blocky scales are better for grip when doing tasks that require "torquing" - look at any fixed blade made especially for these tasks and you'll be hard to find any blocky handles at all. Nor it improves grip when using gloves - how many of the total customer base of Spyderco products use gloves every single time they use their Spydercos? I'm not discounting the glove users here but it's a genuine question since most of the replies I've seen through the years seem to point to this answer.
Also like some have said, there is cost involved for the additional machining for chamfering, but how much does it really add? Because right now the Shaman with it's complicated curves are nearly the same cost as a Bodacious. China's Tenacious series which are budget knives have those wonderful angular chamfering. Heck, even the cheapest ones like the Byrd Tern G-10 have better chamfering than the Golden bestsellers!
I think there's a reason why the best aftermarket scale manufacturers like AWT and Aramis Akhmedov have chamfered their scales and its to improve grip and comfort.
I guess that this is the reason why people are questioning the price of the Bodacious, because we're not getting chamfered scales. It didn't have to be curvy like the Shaman, but just chamfered. I don't think that it will ever eliminate complaints about the knife (people will always find something to complain) but I do believe it will legitimately help in justifying the price in the eyes of the consumers.
Personally I think it is sad when you nearly have the perfect knife only to have its excellent ergonomics held back by blocky handles. I'm not saying ruined - just held back. And you have to pay an additional $60-100 in the aftermarket to get the scale you want, or do it yourself and risk ruining the knife altogether.
I guess my point is, if Spyderco wishes to go the blocky route in their scales, then by all means have all the products be that and be consistent with it. But if we could have just a bit of chamfer with all the Golden bestsellers like they have with their Asian counterparts then why not?
A Ferrari doesn't "not" exist to drive fast and beat the crap out of because it's a million dollars or whatever. Cost does not directly tie into intended use. An Opinel can be bought for ~$20 and it'll out cut most any Spyderco so if cost is all we measure by then every Spyderco is over priced and/or only exists as a collector's piece that isn't intended to be used hard.
I just like coke bottle handles for those big ham-fisted push cuts. Whether I'm making feather sticks or cutting up big cardboard boxes it helps. The Shaman's scales are just about the best compromise I could imagine.
As I sit here playing with my M4 Shaman, I can’t help but notice that the 50/50 choil, which I value so highly on so many of my Spyderco folders, becomes a hot spot in this choked up saber grip.
If I was a rich man, and Spyderco’s Golden facility had enough capacity to accept custom orders, I’d commission a Shaman with a few key changes:
Sacrifice the 50/50 choil for a bit more handle and a bit more blade
Thin out the grind a bit, more like the PM2
Convex it
Offer it in K390, with Green Canvas Micarta scales
This would make the Shaman my ideal woods folder. It’s not like I want to baton with it, but I sure would like to carve feather sticks with no hot spot. Until then, I'll be hear playing with what I think it one of the most comfortable mid-size folders around.
Without actually handling a Bodacious, I hesitate to criticize Sal's design too much. That said, it's pretty darn close to what I asked for. It sure looks like a sweet knife, but I'm (probably) waiting for the Crucarta version, which will hit 2/4 of my points perfectly, and 1/4 close enough. Maybe I'll follow David's example to try to get the Convex thing going, and then I'll be real close.
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.
Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
I took down a big pile of cardboard with the Bodacious yesterday, while comparing with cuts from the Shaman & Native 5.
So far I'd say it feels more like a Native 5 XL than the Shaman does, and makes the Shaman seem like more of its own thing instead of the "Native on Steroids."
The Bodacious slices like the Native, and I can already say that the blocky handle is a plus for me. I'd rather have the lock in that it provides than a more "comfortable" handle like the Shaman. Even with the smooth G10 this knife ain't going anywhere.
Biggest surprise is that I don't miss the choil as much as I thought I would.
So far I'd say it feels more like a Native 5 XL than the Shaman does, and makes the Shaman seem like more of its own thing instead of the "Native on Steroids."
The Bodacious slices like the Native, and I can already say that the blocky handle is a plus for me. I'd rather have the lock in that it provides than a more "comfortable" handle like the Shaman. Even with the smooth G10 this knife ain't going anywhere.
Biggest surprise is that I don't miss the choil as much as I thought I would.
I finally picked up a bodacious and this description is dead on.
Remember all of those forum posts asking for a bigger native 5, a native 5 without a choil, a true larger-mid sized successor to the native ? The Bodacious is like that wish list come true.
Unlike the shaman, the flatter scales let me close the compression lock with my left hand like I can on the pm2/para 3s.
I am really liking the design. Time to go find excuses to cut stuff. No nub required
So far I'd say it feels more like a Native 5 XL than the Shaman does, and makes the Shaman seem like more of its own thing instead of the "Native on Steroids."
The Bodacious slices like the Native, and I can already say that the blocky handle is a plus for me. I'd rather have the lock in that it provides than a more "comfortable" handle like the Shaman. Even with the smooth G10 this knife ain't going anywhere.
Biggest surprise is that I don't miss the choil as much as I thought I would.
I finally picked up a bodacious and this description is dead on.
Remember all of those forum posts asking for a bigger native 5, a native 5 without a choil, a true larger-mid sized successor to the native ? The Bodacious is like that wish list come true.
Unlike the shaman, the flatter scales let me close the compression lock with my left hand like I can on the pm2/para 3s.
I am really liking the design. Time to go find excuses to cut stuff. No nub required
Thanks for the lefty comments , much appreciated. I had to switch the scales on my Shaman ( nicely made ) but just did not work for me as a lefty . I definitely see a Bodacious in the future after reading your post . MG2
MNOSD 0002 / Do more than is required of you . Patton
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
Henry David Thoreau
I might add that the Shaman was already designed, engineered and in queue for production before the Bodacious was designed.
Also, we love the comments which gives us and our exclusives information to determine possible improvements.
sal
I'm going to be genuinely heartbroken if this model doesn't get ran through the gauntlet of steel options.
I think the best compliment I could give it would be to talk about the impressive list of models that it has surpassed in my favorites list. I think in terms of sheer cutting performance this is your best design.
This is probably a way out in left field comment but I can't stop thinking about the High Performance Delica concept, and how much I would love to see a Bodacious with a high hollow grind all the way up to that top blade grind shoulder.
I think a lot of people are looking at this knife as plain and lacking features, but some fluted titanium scales and some fancy steels will fix that.
This is probably a way out in left field comment but I can't stop thinking about the High Performance Delica concept, and how much I would love to see a Bodacious with a high hollow grind all the way up to that top blade grind shoulder.
Funny I had the same thought just the other day. I wonder if it is more costly to put new steels in the same model or have sprints of blade shapes in the same steel?
If steel junkies want variety for performance, it makes sense to have different grinds for the same reason.
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and make the knife thicker to carry. 
