Lil' Temp 3 & Short Thick Blades

[Bolster]

I've been admiring the photos of the Lil' Temp 3 in the Spyderco Product Catalog, and noticed it has an unusually thick 4mm blade that's just under 3" long. Can someone explain the design to me -- I don't quite understand the logic of this knife, despite the catalog description, and despite reading threads on this forum. What are the advantages of its thick, but relatively short blade? I read it was designed for defensive use, but since I have never used a knife in self-defense, and may never, I'm curious what other purposes there are, to which I can put such a thick & short blade. As you can see, I am trying to talk myself into possibly purchasing one...partly because I'm curious about such a thick blade, and what it might be able to do, that thinner blades can't. Usually I'm more interested in thinner, slicier blades--I like my 2mm blades--but the Lil' Temp 3 has me curious because it seems unusual and kinda extreme. Except that I don't understand its extreme-ness. Other than SD, what does it do better than thinner leaf-bladed knives of a similar length, like a Sage or a Caly 3 or a Native 5?

Follow-up question: Is a thick blade particularly desirable for SD? The Yojimbos are all thick at 3.7mm. Yet I notice the Canis is a normal 3mm, and the Karahawk a thin 2.5mm. Janich makes the Jandelica, and it's only 2.5mm. So it seems that 'thick blades' are not necessarily correlated with SD designs?

[Naperville]

There are as many self defense blade designs and blades used for self defense as there are self defense theories and scenarios.

For self defense I have been carrying up to 3 knives: a neck knife, a fixed blade and a folder.

I am never without my Spyderco Native Chief on S90V.

[MidnightCoalCo.]

Not sure if this will help you make your decision but I just purchased one a couple weeks ago and within 5 minutes of holding it I knew I would be sending it back, not because there is anything wrong with the knife but it just wasn't for me. First off, the knife is not as 'Lil' as pictures may make it seem, the handle on that thing is a chunker, very thick and blocky. Also, I was not prepared for how much it weighed, it had some heft to it. At the end of the day, I couldn't see where this knife would fit into my rotation where it would do anything better than say my leafjumper or endela, both of which I love and are easy carries for me. If you want a chunky and hefty knife that you can beat seven ways to Sunday and it be fine then it might be the knife for you.

[Wartstein]

No idea about self defence with folders (though to me the edge curve of the Lil Temp. looks pretty "ANTI"-wharnie, so not what Mike Janich prefers for powerful cuts...)

As for the thick stock:

- The blade looks to be pretty tall, right from heel to tip, so this should make still for a decent cutting geometry ? (Not too obtuse primary grind?)

- What I like and said it before: Not too fine tip on that thick stock! IF a small folder has thick stock in the first place, I personally prefer if it also has an a bit stronger tip (the area where a blade is most likely to snap), so one could potentially really "brutally" make use of that thick stock over the whole length of the blade (I am not the biggest fan of for example the Para 3 concept with also pretty thick blade stock, but then a rather fine tip)

Generally I am definitely a bit tempted by this knife - a lot of edge for the small package, and the handle looks very "enuff 1" - ish - and I actually totally liked the ergos on my Enuff 1 !

[Drubieg]

I’m also have been contemplating the lil temp as of late. I had the g10 version for awhile and find myself missing it. What I appreciated about it was that I did not have to “think” much when I used it. I generally prefer long thin blades and usually carry the police 4. With that knife and others like it, I need to be more conscious about how I use it especially with regard to the tip. I’m and electrician and am constantly cutting near or against hard metal surfaces or in tight spaces, and the lil temp gave me confidence with its thick blade stock and stout tip that I wouldn’t have any issues while cutting. On top of that, I never felt like blade stocks cutting performance was below what I needed. There is value in a model when it gives you a sense of trust, reliability, and confidence… knowing that you can just use it and use it hard without worry.

[p_atrick]

To me, the handle is the star of the show. It fills the hand so well, no doubt in part to the thick blade stick. It is one of the most comfortable Spyderco I’ve held, and it turned me on to the handle forward designs. As for day-to-day cutting I don’t find the blade to be a detriment. I might feel different if I had a lot of cuts to make.

[Tristan_david2001]

I’ve only owned the og green lil temp serrated leaf, but The lil temp platform is my favorite hard use folding knife from spyderco, I love the fistful of handle feel. I imagine the hefty blade thickness is an attribute for hard use and self defense. Leaf shapes also make a very good geometry for self defense, as well as a general purpose tool with the belly to slice with. The design works great for what it’s intended for

[endura3]

Note: all thoughts here pertain to SE blades, as I mostly carry SE and do not own a PE LT3. That being said, the LT3LW is one of my favorite folders. While the blade stock is obviously quite thick, the blade is also tall enough that (at least in SE) it's a far more impressive slicer than you'd intuitively think based on the specs alone.

And the combination of blade thickness (and in turn handle thickness) and "tallness" confers a lot of ergonomic benefits in use.



I'm a big fan of the Delica 4, which provides similar edge length in a much smaller overall footprint. That being said, for really intensive cutting tasks where I'm bearing down on the handle as hard as possible, a thicker knife like the LT3LW is much more comfortable and confidence inspiring. It "locks in" my hand much better, and is way more resistant to rolling from side to side.

I actually wouldn't even think of this as a knife in the Delica's size range - while the blade length and edge is similar, the LT3 is a way larger knife in every other dimension. And in use, it really feels that way. You have much more handle real-estate, the handle is far more resistant to rolling from side-to-side, the handle is easier to index with work gloves on, etc. I live in an area where I'm either dealing with numb hands or thick gloves for 7-ish months each year, so that level of comfort is really helpful.

I don't know much about knife use for self defense and hope to never use my knives that way, but I'd imagine the ergonomic benefits of such a chunky knife similarly carry over. I actually sanded down the lower finger guard on my LT3 because it interfered with the way I like to hold the knife when push cutting for my uses, but even with that mod the handle is incredibly "locked in" for both stabbing and slicing motions, just because there's so much more material to grip compared to a thinner knife.

I don't have any blade length restrictions where I am, but regardless I find an SE knife with a short blade I can bear down on really hard is more than enough for any conceivable folding knife task. It's a fantastic platform for a user folding knife and is one of a few folders I own that truly feels like a fixed blade in use, ergonomically speaking.

[adv23]

Not sure if this will help you make your decision but I just purchased one a couple weeks ago and within 5 minutes of holding it I knew I would be sending it back, not because there is anything wrong with the knife but it just wasn't for me. First off, the knife is not as 'Lil' as pictures may make it seem, the handle on that thing is a chunker, very thick and blocky. Also, I was not prepared for how much it weighed, it had some heft to it. At the end of the day, I couldn't see where this knife would fit into my rotation where it would do anything better than say my leafjumper or endela, both of which I love and are easy carries for me. If you want a chunky and hefty knife that you can beat seven ways to Sunday and it be fine then it might be the knife for you.

+1

[Tristan_david2001]

I've been admiring the photos of the Lil' Temp 3 in the Spyderco Product Catalog, and noticed it has an unusually thick 4mm blade that's just under 3" long. Can someone explain the design to me -- I don't quite understand the logic of this knife, despite the catalog description, and despite reading threads on this forum. What are the advantages of its thick, but relatively short blade? I read it was designed for defensive use, but since I have never used a knife in self-defense, and may never, I'm curious what other purposes there are, to which I can put such a thick & short blade. As you can see, I am trying to talk myself into possibly purchasing one...partly because I'm curious about such a thick blade, and what it might be able to do, that thinner blades can't. Usually I'm more interested in thinner, slicier blades--I like my 2mm blades--but the Lil' Temp 3 has me curious because it seems unusual and kinda extreme. Except that I don't understand its extreme-ness. Other than SD, what does it do better than thinner leaf-bladed knives of a similar length, like a Sage or a Caly 3 or a Native 5?

Follow-up question: Is a thick blade particularly desirable for SD? The Yojimbos are all thick at 3.7mm. Yet I notice the Canis is a normal 3mm, and the Karahawk a thin 2.5mm. Janich makes the Jandelica, and it's only 2.5mm. So it seems that 'thick blades' are not necessarily correlated with SD designs?

It depends on what you need or want in a knife. What your needs are and what ergonomics work best for you. I think most would find the lil temperance a more comfortable knife to use in harder, prolonged cutting than the knives you mentioned. The lil temp blade can also take more abuse and do more “non knife” things than knives like the Calys. It’s a 3” beater of folding knife, a versatile general use leaf shape and thick hand locking handle. If you like these features I’d say try one out.

[Fastidiotus]

For me the Lil Temp 3 LW is a non-salt Lil Caribbean LW. The handle shapes are very similar, if you like the Caribbean the Lil Temp will feel equally at home in your hand. Likewise both have a very similar gentle sloping thumb ramp, just enough to have a place for your thumb but not the steep jamming your thumb in ramp like on a Delica. The handle on the Lil Temp LW is one of the best showcases of molded frn with all edges of the handle very well contoured. The Caribbean and Endela get all the glory for the best serrations but my example of the Lil Temp has a serration pattern even more slicey than my Caribbean. Add the fact you can't get a new Caribbean Serrated, and the Lil Temp occupies the slot for perhaps Spydercos best serrated knife.

I was put off by the price "only having vg-10", I had read that seki couldn't get the comp lock right, I slept on the Lil Temp and now that I own one its definitely in my top 5 of Spydercos. Sal may have conceived it as a SD knife but what it actually is, is a fantastic hard working knife.

Salt or not I'd love to see the vg-10 version swapped to lc200n, especially in serrated, the toughness of the steel and the toughness of the knife would be a beautiful match. The first thing I will be keeping an eye out on any future sales is a deal on the k390 plain edge because it will be worth every dollar.

[R100]

The blade of the Lil' Temp 3 is thick but because it is so tall it actually has an identical primary grind angle to the Native 5 or Chief so is a good slicer. It also has about the same edge length as a Manix 2 but with a significantly more robust tip. One way to think of it is a heavy duty alternative to the Manix. It feels as close to a fixed blade as a folder can and actually makes a pretty great compact bushcraft/outdoors knife. I do prefer the thinner handle of the G10 version though.

Dan

[zuludelta]

I've been admiring the photos of the Lil' Temp 3 in the Spyderco Product Catalog, and noticed it has an unusually thick 4mm blade that's just under 3" long. Can someone explain the design to me -- I don't quite understand the logic of this knife, despite the catalog description, and despite reading threads on this forum. What are the advantages of its thick, but relatively short blade? I read it was designed for defensive use, but since I have never used a knife in self-defense, and may never, I'm curious what other purposes there are, to which I can put such a thick & short blade.

[... ]

Other than SD, what does it do better than thinner leaf-bladed knives of a similar length, like a Sage or a Caly 3 or a Native 5?

The LT3LW does have a fairly thick blade, but it is also quite broad (i.e., "tall"), so despite its thickness, it is relatively thin BTE because of the blade's full flat grind and distal taper. I can't recall the exact figure off the top of my head, but it has about the same thickness behind the edge as the PM2, despite having a thicker blade when measured at the spine. In terms of slicing/cutting geometry, I'd rate both models as comparable. (I personally think the LT3LW "slices better" than the PM2, but that could also partially be due to the differences in ergonomics... the LT3LW fits my hand better, so I feel more comfortable bearing down on it & I can probably get a more consistent cutting stroke with it because of this).

Follow-up question: Is a thick blade particularly desirable for SD? The Yojimbos are all thick at 3.7mm. Yet I notice the Canis is a normal 3mm, and the Karahawk a thin 2.5mm. Janich makes the Jandelica, and it's only 2.5mm. So it seems that 'thick blades' are not necessarily correlated with SD designs?

I am not at all an expert (far from it) in the subject of knife-based SD despite some formal training, so take my answer with a heaping spoonful of salt (also, my answer might come off as a bit of a cop-out): whether or not a (relatively) thicker blade is more optimal for SD largely depends on the technique/system/theory behind the defensive application. Systems that emphasize thrusting techniques will generally favour thicker profile blades (think of the knife fighting curriculum developed by Fairbairn and Sykes during WWII and the relatively obtuse, diamond cross-section of the classic Fairbairn-Sykes dagger, or for a more recent, similar example, the Special Operations Combatives Program developed by Greg Thompson & the SOCP dagger). While the Yojimbo 2 might appear to be thick compared to many other folders, it's actually pretty thin when compared to many other "fighting folders" (indeed, I've read or heard a few critics decry it as being too thin and fragile for SD), and from my limited exposure to MBC (Janich's system), it is a system that emphasizes slashes and cuts that are deliberately intended to efficiently stop an attack via more legally-defensible means (either through negating the assailant's ability to wield a weapon or through a "mobility kill"). IMHO, the difference between a 3mm & 3.7mm blade thickness is largely negligible in an SD context so long as the cutting edge is sharp and doesn't have an obtuse grind.

[Tristan_david2001]

I hope they bring the original lil temperance leaf back for a sprint made golden, Colorado. really one of the best knives in the company’s history. A little bit more MBC focused than the current 3rd gen..
-pointier and more distal tapered leaf
-old school hardware, rounded pivot pin, one of the coolest clips
-unique handle feature that tails up the thumb ramp giving ur thumb a wide resting spot. stronger hand locking ergos(for me)
-my favorite color green, g10, milled out in a unique and interesting way for added grip and indexing.
Sals the greatest knife designer of our time. Indisputable!

[Tristan_david2001]

Wharnies are more effective slashers, spears are more effective for stabbing. But for versatility and as a general tool, you want a little belly. That’s why I believe sal largely favors the leaf, even in MBC focused designs

[Bolster]

...whether or not a (relatively) thicker blade is more optimal for SD largely depends on the technique/system/theory behind the defensive application. Systems that emphasize thrusting techniques will generally favour thicker profile blades...

...Wharnies are more effective slashers, spears are more effective for stabbing...

Interesting. With 3" of blade length, the LT3 doesn't appear to be particularly designed for SD thrusting...

[riclaw]

I have the LT3 LWT SE. I like the blade and handle shape.

I don't like the pocket clip. It doesn't slide in and out of the pocket easily enough to be an EDC. Spyderco could use the clip from the Shaman or Native 5 so that there are aftermarket deep carry options. Give the clip a landing pad like they did with the other lightweight designs.

On mine the blade won't drop shut without loosening the pivot too far. That makes it a two handed closer.

I have great hopes for the Bodacious.

[Tristan_david2001]

I would disagree @bolster, it looks like the blade plays the role of a little 3” spear. Spears are purpose built for toughness and tip thrust penetration, and they’re pretty popular design options in the self defense side of the knife world. The way spyderco does their leaf shape is also intended to be just be good general edc, hard use blade as well. So I would agree to the extent that the lt3 isn’t an all out “tactical” folder from spyderco in the ways as say a matriarch or yojimbo

[Steeltoez83]

I have used a pe vg10 version for a bit. No complaints other than thinking I wish this was cruwear. I have gravitated towards its slimmer and less robust cousin the leafjumper over it for edc instead. The wider handles lock the hand in very well during cutting. I've looked at buying the k390 version from time to time. I like the ergos but that's just me.

[cjk]

I have the LT3 LWT SE. I like the blade and handle shape.

I don't like the pocket clip. It doesn't slide in and out of the pocket easily enough to be an EDC. Spyderco could use the clip from the Shaman or Native 5 so that there are aftermarket deep carry options. Give the clip a landing pad like they did with the other lightweight designs.

On mine the blade won't drop shut without loosening the pivot too far. That makes it a two handed closer.

I have great hopes for the Bodacious.

Maybe one of these methods will work for you?

I'm right handed. On my WolfSpyder (which will not drop shut ever), I operate the compression lock with my middle finger, and push the blade down with my index finger, then close it the rest of the way with my thumb. All one handed. It took me a while to figure out how to do this. I can't closed this particular knife with just my left hand.

On other "not drop shut" compression lock knives, I can operate the compression lock with my thumb and use my index finger tip in the hole to partially close the blade. I rotate the blade halfway with my index finger tip, then rotate the handle 90 degrees in my hand and close it the rest of the way with my thumb. This is the same way I close lots of Spyderco back locks.