Knife that screams liner lock got the compression lock - why?

[Ric]

I have the Wolfspyder and thanks to a good buddy now also the Rhino.

The compression lock closing does not work well because of double detent (Wolf) and missing blade mass (Rhino).

The ergos scream liner lock.
My thumb always wants to engage the non existing liner because its naturally falls in this position - but they got the compression lock.

Why?
Am I the only one who noticed that?

[Wartstein]

Don´t have a Rhino, but I am a bit known for pointing out the pros a linerlock does have over a comp.lock - vice versa also the case, don´t get me wrong!
It is just that the comp.lock is a a great alternative, but not necessarily an improvenment to/of the linerlock.
More natural operation, and often better usability / access are pros for the linerlock imo.
(No need to discuss this anymore, but to me a concept like the Millie is better suited for a linerlock).

Now: If we´ll ever see a Spyderco Rhino Grande (pics see here in this thread viewtopic.php?p=1616858#p1616858) I sure hope it will stick with its frame lock!

[R100]

I have the Wolfspyder and thanks to a good buddy now also the Rhino.

The compression lock closing does not work well because of double detent (Wolf) and missing blade mass (Rhino).

The ergos scream liner lock.
My thumb always wants to engage the non existing liner because its naturally falls in this position - but they got the compression lock.

Why?
Am I the only one who noticed that?

Couldn't agree more on the Rhino. It's obviously made for a liner lock and the compression lock is just awkward. I also wish the Kapara was a liner lock.

Dan

[Wartstein]

Couldn't agree more on the Rhino. It's obviously made for a liner lock and the compression lock is just awkward. I also wish the Kapara was a liner lock.

This.

Plus perhaps grippier scales (like an affordable, workhorse textured linerlock Kapara) and I´d have more than one!

That said: As far as I am aware of Alistair developed the Kapara primarily as a food prep knife used in the office.
Here the comp.lock makes sense, cause due to its positioning it is less likely to get gunked up with stuff/food that gets cut than a linerlock

[yablanowitz]

Why? Because "stronger is better", even if the knife doesn't really need a lock at all. So applications where the liner lock is adequate instead get the compression lock. Personally, I pretty much pass on any knife that uses the comp lock now. I have a bunch of them, and carry none unless I happen to be on one of my "try to like it" experiments.

[horzuff]

Oh no, a Kapara with a linerlock would have very narrow handles at the lock cutout. Plus with such a small distance from the pivot to the contact point of the lock it would be a weak linerlock probably. A backlock could work probably, but I much prefer the compression lock's smooth operation

[Michael Janich]

I've noticed that when designers try to avoid the "hump" in the blade for the Trademark Round Hole, they often use a deep cutout in the obverse-side scale to make the hole accessible for one-hand opening. That "feature" makes the handle feel like that of a LinerLock, since it's common on LinerLock designs that emphasize ease of closing. While that perception may make it "scream" LinerLock, for a bushcraft-worthy knife, the strength of a Compression Lock is a significant advantage.

The unfortunate disadvantages of this design style are that it creates a hot spot where your hand grips the single scale and the knife cannot be readily opened with the left hand.

Stay safe,

Mike

[bobnikon]

Couldn't agree more on the Rhino. It's obviously made for a liner lock and the compression lock is just awkward. I also wish the Kapara was a liner lock.

This.

Plus perhaps grippier scales (like an affordable, workhorse textured linerlock Kapara) and I´d have more than one!

That said: As far as I am aware of Alistair developed the Kapara primarily as a food prep knife used in the office.
Here the comp.lock makes sense, cause due to its positioning it is less likely to get gunked up with stuff/food that gets cut than a linerlock

Or... a backlock... I would love to see this beauty in the salt configuration mentioned in another thread, but with a stout backlock. Just saying.

[nerdlock]

.....

The unfortunate disadvantages of this design style are that it creates a hot spot where your hand grips the single scale and the knife cannot be readily opened with the left hand.

Stay safe,

Mike

Thanks for bringing that up on behalf of southpaws, Mike. Although most of us have eventually learned techniques on how to close the comp lock with our left hands, the best solution to this is an "evolved" comp lock like a button lock on the Smock. The best think about a button comp lock is that the cutout at the back of the handle is eliminated, removing the hotspot it causes. Or, barring that solution, a simple one like a CME stub would work wonders.

[Wartstein]

Couldn't agree more on the Rhino. It's obviously made for a liner lock and the compression lock is just awkward. I also wish the Kapara was a liner lock.

This.

Plus perhaps grippier scales (like an affordable, workhorse textured linerlock Kapara) and I´d have more than one!

That said: As far as I am aware of Alistair developed the Kapara primarily as a food prep knife used in the office.
Here the comp.lock makes sense, cause due to its positioning it is less likely to get gunked up with stuff/food that gets cut than a linerlock

Or... a backlock... I would love to see this beauty in the salt configuration mentioned in another thread, but with a stout backlock. Just saying.

A backlock Kapara would be amazing, even more so than a linerlock Kapara.

But as I always say when this comes up:
I don't think a backlock and the blade would fit into the "not tall" handle if blade height and handle height were kept the same as in the current comp.lock Kapara.

[yablanowitz]

.....

The unfortunate disadvantages of this design style are that it creates a hot spot where your hand grips the single scale and the knife cannot be readily opened with the left hand.

Stay safe,

Mike

Thanks for bringing that up on behalf of southpaws, Mike. Although most of us have eventually learned techniques on how to close the comp lock with our left hands, the best solution to this is an "evolved" comp lock like a button lock on the Smock. The best think about a button comp lock is that the cutout at the back of the handle is eliminated, removing the hotspot it causes. Or, barring that solution, a simple one like a CME stub would work wonders.

Oddly enough, I find it far easier to close most comp locks left-handed than right-handed, with the exception being the "lefty" PM2.

[ChrisinHove]

Yes - I found this obtrusive on the Wolfspyder. I didn’t mind the slow deployment but the ergonomics just didn’t chime. And I tried twice, a couple of years apart.

[Coastal]

The comp lock is my least favorite of all, so I'm 100% with you. Even on knives like the PM2 and Caribbean, where it works great and is entirely appropriate, I'd prefer a liner lock or backlock. On a knife like the Rhino I have to wonder, "What were they thinking?"

[Jesla]

I wasn’t born a lefty, but I’m mostly a lefty now due to injuries. I find right handed comp locks the easiest to use and liner Locks the hardest. I thought about getting a lefty PM2, but I’m so use to doing the right handed one left handed, I don’t see the point.

I tend to steer away from liner locks now although that is what I carried the most over the years.

[Notsurewhy]

Lock strength has little to do with it. It's because many (most?) people play with their knives more than they cut things with their knives. Most people find the comp lock is more fun to play with, so it sells better. It's not that complicated.

Judging by the cost difference between the military (MAP $255, liner lock) and the military 2 (MAP $210 comp lock), I'm guessing comp locks are cheaper to manufacture as well, which may play into their prevalence.

[Mushroom]

The compression lock offers advantages over the liner lock in more ways than one but it being Spyderco’s own design is probably a large contributing reason for it often being used in favor of the liner lock.

[Halfneck]

I have a Rhino and have no problem opening & closing it. Also due to disabilities I can only use my right hand. So I'm not understanding how a person with use of both hands is having a problem closing the Rhino? Unless you're saying you can't do the fidgety flip it open, drop it shut thing.

Personally I prefer the compression lock over the liner lock. I understand the potential hot spot caused by the compression lock could be a problem. My issue is that I've had 2 instances where a liner lock knife came unlocked during use. Both knives were by big name companies with good reputations. Both times the knives were being used hard, but not abused. Made me kind of leery of liner locks in anything but light use folders, or liner locks with large cut outs to access the liner lock.

Again, just my personal preference.

[sal]

Hey Notsurewhy,

Cost of manufacturing a Compression Lock is actually more than making a Linerlock. Yes, we did things to our Linerlocks that made them more reliable, but the reason for the lower cost of the Military 2 was in other things that we did differently, rather than just he cost of making the lock.

Hi Nick,

I don't think making our "own" lock has anything to do with it either. That's not a thing we factor in when deciding what lock to use in a model.

We don't have it nailed down (reason) but we do know that sales of the Linerlocks have slowed. We think it has more to do with perception, keeping the finger out of the path of the blade when closing. (This affects some more than others, fear of being cut). And all of the "expert" reviewers, many of whom, in my opinion, do not have the knowledge or experience to honestly review a knife. That's beside being biased, which I believe most, if not all, reviewers have.

The cutout in the front side of the front scale on blades, that is there to access the hole, on hump-less models also sometimes proves to be a problem. Muscle memory for unlocking the Linerlocks automatically notices the cut out and goes there to unlock. That was a problem with the Renegade and Blackhawk.

sal

[Mushroom]

Thanks Sal, I appreciate the insight.

I don’t mean to impose but if I may ask - at Spyderco, is lock choice for a new model primarily the designers decision or is that decision influenced and made after an R&D process? Maybe it’s a unique process each time or decided another way all together but regardless, I find the whole design process fascinating.

If I’m asking too much, I understand. Sometimes my curiosity gets the best of me!

[Wartstein]

.... I find right handed comp locks the easiest to use and liner Locks the hardest...

Same here concerning comp.locks:

Imo very easy to operate with both right or left hand (I am a righty).

Actually I normally use the thumb to activate a (right hand) comp.lock with the right hand and use my index finger to guide the blade to close - very similar to how I usually close a backlock.

With the left hand I also use the thumb to depress the lock tab.
No offense to anyone meant, but I don't see what should be difficult in doing so -?!

/ Differently to you though I also don't find a linerlock significantly harder to use with both right or left hand.