The best "worst" serrated knives I have ever owned.

[hollowt1pz]

Hello everybody!,

I suppose this is a little bit off topic, but Mule team seemed like an apt place to put this.

I have had a set of taiwanese stamped stainless steel 0.0420-5 (I had it behind me), and I have to say that in 20 years I have never had to replace one for cutting performance. It is the oddest grind I have ever seen, It is actually DOUBLE beveled, 16degrees on the non serrated, and around 11 on the tip (non serrated). I absolutely love your guy's knives, but if I am being honest here sal hah, I have never really liked the serrations that you guys use for kitchen knives. I mean they work of course, I'm just being a little bit anal and this cheap *** stamp steel that's run once though a machine is my go-to instead of a Spyderco which I want to change. I'm not the best with media, but here is a picture of the design and I really do think you guys should try to copy this for some of the kitchen alloys just back off on hardenability a bit. I definitely would not be wasting my time with this nightmare of uploading photos if I didn't want everyone's opinions here. I know the first thing people will say is food sticks in between because they're so tight together, it doesn't.






I can add more detail if necessary.

Opinions my fellow nerds?

[RustyIron]

Microserrated blades are not my cuppa tea.
I need a plain edge for most things, and normal serrations when the need calls for it.

[TkoK83Spy]

Have you tried rounding the tips a bit on your Spyderco knives? They will cut much better. My wife loves using our PE as well as SE Z cut knives in the kitchen. We both have been pleased with the performance of the SE. We have (2) of each.

[hollowt1pz]

Have you tried rounding the tips a bit on your Spyderco knives? They will cut much better. My wife loves using our PE as well as SE Z cut knives in the kitchen. We both have been pleased with the performance of the SE. We have (2) of each.

No sir I actually have not.. however I do agree with you that they are not like bad or anything as such I never said that, and I honestly have to admit that this isn't necessarily the... Biggest issue in the world. As far as actual cutting performance, it's not any.. better than Spyderco or anything like that because it's just not that heh. It's ****** stamped Chinese God knows what. But my point here was that.. for a cheap set of knives that I have had since my 10th anniversary here, why are we stuck in the circle of single bevel serrations? That's the argument that I am trying to present to you guys and have y'all teach me a thing or two that I may not be thinking about on why all companies use chisel grinds with serrated when the.. I'm not going to call them micro serrations but I suppose that works. I'd say macro-micro to me it's an in between, however for serrations yes they're rather small and the recurves also allow... Me to cut something with a serrated knife on a paper plate without destroying it.

Yes yes yes yes yes sure probably, I know how crazy this sounds because we love our hard steels and hate chipping, at least I do. However this is just a "argument" (properly 'discussion') to ask everyone their own opinions and experiences and if I am incredibly stupid for even thinking about Spyderco trying this, which obviously I'm not considering the legalese logistics or anything like that. It's just purely an idea that I wanted to get some others opinions on.

Microserrated blades are not my cuppa tea.
I need a plain edge for most things, and normal serrations when the need calls for it.

I agree with you on the whole, just these are my serrated knives and my experience with them vs other serrations and sure it takes longer to cut something - but it's.. something that you could give anyone and they'd never have to sharpen it.

You mind elaborating on why you dislike small serrations and/or even if, normal serrations just beveled on both sides instead of one. Geometry cuts right? That's my thinking here. Why not do it - there has to be a real reason why that I can't think of.

[sal]

Hi Mike,

My first thought was; "your kidding, right". Then I thought, well, I'll let our group educate you.

sal

[RustyIron]

Microserrated blades are not my cuppa tea.

just these are my serrated knives and my experience with them

you could give anyone and they'd never have to sharpen it.

You mind elaborating on why you dislike small serrations

That's ok if they work well for you and you like them. You asked for our opinions about them, so I obliged. To be more specific, the serrations in the picture are uneven, flattened, and dull, and the blade is wavy. The knifes of that style that I've seen tend to tear through the food rather than slicing through it nicely, and it's hard to put a useful edge on them. Like I said, it ain't my cuppa.

I know you didn't ask for advice, but get your Sharpmaker and put a good edge on your Spyderco knives. You might be pleasantly surprised at how nicely they work for you.

[TkoK83Spy]

My Dragonfly went from catchy/tearing/pokey serrations to a coarse, but smooth cutter after some love on the Sharpmaker.

[hollowt1pz]

Microserrated blades are not my cuppa tea.

just these are my serrated knives and my experience with them

you could give anyone and they'd never have to sharpen it.

You mind elaborating on why you dislike small serrations

That's ok if they work well for you and you like them. You asked for our opinions about them, so I obliged. To be more specific, the serrations in the picture are uneven, flattened, and dull, and the blade is wavy. The knifes of that style that I've seen tend to tear through the food rather than slicing through it nicely, and it's hard to put a useful edge on them. Like I said, it ain't my cuppa.

I know you didn't ask for advice, but get your Sharpmaker and put a good edge on your Spyderco knives. You might be pleasantly surprised at how nicely they work for you.

This is the exact opposite of what it actually does. It's a cleaner cut. That's exactly why I made this thread.

[hollowt1pz]

Hi Mike,

My first thought was; "your kidding, right". Then I thought, well, I'll let our group educate you.

sal

Yeah I know there has to be a real reason man I just can't think of it. The best I got to was straight cuts. Besides perhaps you guys don't do kitchen knives specifically. Because I keep grabbing those to cut food I host people for. I have experience with knives and for kitchen applications especially, "micro serrations" work better it's.. to me literally common sense physics and can make the argument with pictures. It doesn't matter if I sharpen one side of it or hit the serrations with a diamond cone which I have. The design is for outdoors not indoors.

[hollowt1pz]

Hi Mike,

My first thought was; "your kidding, right". Then I thought, well, I'll let our group educate you.

sal

I'd really like to know what I am not thinking about here honestly brother cause I made the thread specifically because I have used A LOT of kitchen knives over the years working for AllClad we would get tasked to do rd on multiple designs that we were presented over my tenure and this happens to be one of the ones that the bosses took rather seriously but never happened. I'm not saying that they replace a straight edge blade or anything like that, just that they do cut anything hard or soft exactly in half with absolutely no tearing on the edges of sandwiches or meat. Obvious drawbacks include blade movement which can make a clean cut.. look like I CNCd your sandwich heh. I'm not saying that Spyderco kitchen knives don't cut .. very well either or anything like that, especially if you do hit them with a 320 grit diamond cone. Thanks.

Wish I knew how to tag people on php. Just that the Spyderco kitchen ones do tend to tear things up a little bit more. I personally believe that it's more of an outdoor type design, but for ***** I did try sticking 510 rope and twisted nylon rope for time to cut tests, and Spyderco beats it on nylon rope by a good bit, Paracord is a bit closer and worse of a test media but was going for something representing indoors serrates, if you would.

[sal]

Hi Mike,

I began studying serrations both testing and working with microscopes in 1975. I invented a sharpener capable of sharpening serrations and produced it in 1978 along with a multitude of serrated knives in 1982. I have worked with them continuously since.

In my opinion, the fastest way to ruin a serrated Spyderco is with a cone rod. Easiest to see this if you look at the edge with a Magnifying loupe. The best way to sharpen our serrations, in my opinion, is with a Spyderco Sharpmaker and a 10X - 12V magnifying loupe. The Tri-Angle sharpener will make our serrations work better than the factory edge. Read the stickied thread on the top of our forum on teeth.

I have been refining and testing our serrated edges for more than 40 years. I have them on Real-World Testing in numerous restaurants that I check regularly. I simply do not agree with your findings. I would suggest you purchase K04SBL and a loupe and a Sharpmaker and use all three, then we can discuss this when you have more knowledge .

sal

[hollowt1pz]

Have you done what I showed a picture of? That's my question. It's either a simple yes or a simple no. I can see why Jason and science people dislike you with these types of responses sal. I'm just asking questions. Apparently y'all don't like that.

The MCD sharpener I use for serrations is exactly what a sharp maker is just tapered. I also know what I am doing and AllClad has a CATRA tester also. It's not a complex machine.. you tell me why I can get better cut results on that type of grind on ******** steel alloys that are 5,000x cheaper to make. I know you didn't do kitchen knives like me for as long but I also have a history of working in the industry. I'm not trying to pick a fight or argument but - we do have to use scientific methods to compare and contrast. So if I can make a stainless, ~55Rc high chromium (my guess is a 440a analog) knife that people who have experience with knives pick over.. my own plain edge ones (I don't do serrations, henceforth why I was hoping to learn a little bit) and aren't for CATRA testing purposes but. Personal use preferred. I have obviously met a few people that don't like them but most of them are people who I have been friends with and have never actually used them. So I can't.. quantify or qualify any of this with a scientific instrument. Just my own hands and other people who I have asked this exact question on and not ONE person can actually explain it to me. I'm literally still waiting months after.

It's not like I don't have a thousand dollar microscope and the equipment and knowledge so. That's why I believe that I can ask this.. why did I not Rockwell test it? It's too thin to get a perfectly accurate reading...

[hollowt1pz]

Hi Mike,

I began studying serrations both testing and working with microscopes in 1975. I invented a sharpener capable of sharpening serrations and produced it in 1978 along with a multitude of serrated knives in 1982. I have worked with them continuously since.

In my opinion, the fastest way to ruin a serrated Spyderco is with a cone rod. Easiest to see this if you look at the edge with a Magnifying loupe. The best way to sharpen our serrations, in my opinion, is with a Spyderco Sharpmaker and a 10X - 12V magnifying loupe. The Tri-Angle sharpener will make our serrations work better than the factory edge. Read the stickied thread on the top of our forum on teeth.

I have been refining and testing our serrated edges for more than 40 years. I have them on Real-World Testing in numerous restaurants that I check regularly. I simply do not agree with your findings. I would suggest you purchase K04SBL and a loupe and a Sharpmaker and use all three, then we can discuss this when you have more knowledge .

sal

We're in the same business was my first thought when I asked this question. I can talk as extensively about kitchen knives as about anyone else that I have met and no I am not saying to gear this towards chefs whatsoever. I know I'm not God and can be wrong about things but I have done blind tests with people that both know knives who are overly impressed with this pattern for what the cost of production is. I've never met a normal person that cared enough about it and the continued... Sawing action doesn't require sharpening or anything. That's why I posted this, to pose a question. The response I got sounded like I'm Jesus H Christ and I know everything about everything. I respected you up until that post and yeah I don't think it's me reading it incorrectly.

I honestly do like ya sal. I think I.. may be in a position to understand you specifically and why you would be annoyed or such at a question like this, however to disregard it entirely because it is different than what you 'know', would be incredibly stupid in my personal opinion and I know that Larrin has never ever said that he's been wrong about anything - it's a provable fact that yes I got from the other black sheep brother. So anything with him I have never listened to. You? Different story.. running a business requires failure and yes the "ability to just say shut the **** up we're doing this. I don't care what you feel about it." so I know ya did it just.. don't forget it would be my man to man recommendation that I have to remind myself about often.

[Steeltoez83]

Is there a link to this "MCD" knife sharpener? Bcuz I'm curious what it looks like in operation. I've always freehanded my serrated spydercos and achieved high level sharpness.

[hollowt1pz]

Is there a link to this "MCD" knife sharpener? Bcuz I'm curious what it looks like in operation. I've always freehanded my serrated spydercos and achieved high level sharpness.

what I'm using? Probably.

https://www.amazon.com/Smiths-Carbide-C ... Q4QAvD_BwE

Not that, but the same general idea without the other parts of it. Opposite side has a flat also. It's all metal and Chinese of course, but it works like you I do it by hand.

[sal]

Sorry Mike,

Didn't mean to offend you.

sal

[Steeltoez83]

Is there a link to this "MCD" knife sharpener? Bcuz I'm curious what it looks like in operation. I've always freehanded my serrated spydercos and achieved high level sharpness.

what I'm using? Probably.

https://www.amazon.com/Smiths-Carbide-C ... Q4QAvD_BwE

Not that, but the same general idea without the other parts of it. Opposite side has a flat also. It's all metal and Chinese of course, but it works like you I do it by hand.

I'm not a fan of that style of sharpener personally. I prefer using benchstones for everything including serrations. I usually angle my strokes 3 different directions to ensure the entirety of the scallops are properly apexed. I find finishing stones to be the best when it comes to stone choices. Stones that shed abrasive quickly or electroplated abrasive cause more damage than desired imo. Then it just comes down to picking the edge finish that matches the intended use. Usually 800 grit works a great balance of push and pull cutting for myself. I've tried 400 fine india finishes on vg10 and 8cr and I'm just not a fan of how I have to adjust my cutting technique. I stick to 800 grit when I cut test serrated spydies and 1k for plain edges.

[hollowt1pz]

Sorry Mike,

Didn't mean to offend you.

sal

Well sal, be honest with me and tell me that if you asked that question and someone said what you did.. I was slightly offended because that's about the most dismissive.. thing I have heard in a while and while I have absolutely no idea who you are or whatnot, I get why you could respond like that. Trust me I am also human and I know that I have dismissed things that I had a preconceived notion of, it's normal I'm not necessarily blaming you for that one at all but I did figure of all people, you would be the most cut out for informing me on things that I don't have the experience with that you do. I'm not trying to pry any industry secrets here or something like that haha. What I showed, was a submission for AllClad that went pretty far on I was part of the team. That's how I got em. They're literally from.. 1993? My parents use them, as opposed to my own kitchen knives which I also have a similar business with prominent chefs (perhaps not on social media but salary wise) here in Pittsburgh, it's how I met Jason Ward. The only area that I don't have information that I want to have and.. I suppose the word would be to understand the specifics of serrations because they vary massively. At first this was honestly just a hey sal, so the company that I worked for did this im not sure if you guys would be remotely interested but. It's not a bad business idea IMO. I have tried to get people to switch to better stuff, people who are the greatest generation or basically younger than me honestly don't know or even think to care about this stuff so yeah, I figured that we could have a mutually beneficial conversation and kinda just got dismissed like the typical internet idiot. Which as I said I can fully understand and have been guilty of myself, all is completely forgiven.

Is there a link to this "MCD" knife sharpener? Bcuz I'm curious what it looks like in operation. I've always freehanded my serrated spydercos and achieved high level sharpness.

what I'm using? Probably.

https://www.amazon.com/Smiths-Carbide-C ... Q4QAvD_BwE

Not that, but the same general idea without the other parts of it. Opposite side has a flat also. It's all metal and Chinese of course, but it works like you I do it by hand.

I'm not a fan of that style of sharpener personally. I prefer using benchstones for everything including serrations. I usually angle my strokes 3 different directions to ensure the entirety of the scallops are properly apexed. I find finishing stones to be the best when it comes to stone choices. Stones that shed abrasive quickly or electroplated abrasive cause more damage than desired imo. Then it just comes down to picking the edge finish that matches the intended use. Usually 800 grit works a great balance of push and pull cutting for myself. I've tried 400 fine india finishes on vg10 and 8cr and I'm just not a fan of how I have to adjust my cutting technique. I stick to 800 grit when I cut test serrated spydies and 1k for plain edges.

Well that's one thing that I have not tried. I never went over 600 grit and as i remember physics as I type this. I need to get a sharpmaker apparently.

I do respect everything that anyone says, so thanks to all for helping this dumbass figure out... Why micro-serrates aren't used in (as I'm thinking about) hardly any kitchen knives that are cheap and double beveled stamped. The ultimate simplicity. Admittedly, it's been a while since I have known this area of the industry, so it may be more common now than in the early 90s in Taiwan.

[sal]

Hey, Mike,

No problem. But you did come on to my forum and tell me that I have the worst serrations? I have been studying and promoting serrated edges for the past 45 years. I believe, and it is just my opinion, but I believe that I have the best solution for maintaining serrated edges and getting the best performance from them.

I have heard of, and tried many other alternatives and personally found them lacking, no offense Steel Toes. I always suggest magnification to those on this forum to clearly see what is happening on the edge of a cutting tool. Many have taken this advice and learned from it.

We can just agree to disagree.

sal

[cabfrank]

I've always found it to be a good idea to listen to those who know more about something than I do. I figure it helps me get smarter that way, and helps me keep learning, instead of stagnating. Listening to sal (and others) about serrated edges has helped my enjoyment of the knife hobby. I'm not at all surprised about it either.