Spyderco Forums

Let's talk sharpening strategies for the HIC Mule.

I plan to do the same thing I always do, just slower. (I have been freehanding on diamond hones since 1980.)

yablanowitz wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:30 am

I plan to do the same thing I always do, just slower. (I have been freehanding on diamond hones since 1980.)

For those of us who don't have your usual sharpening procedure memorized... at what grit will you start?

I got two so I can rub em together

Seriously though, I have diamond plates from 140 up to 9 microns, so I figure that ought to so it. If not, I'll get some diamond lapping film and apply it to the back of the plates, or on some leather backing if I find it needs something spongy.

I think this will be the first knife I forego reprofiling the factory edge on though.

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:25 am

I bought this in preparation of this mule:

I'll start out with this (if there is any chips) and then work down to the diamond or CBN triangles or the CBN plates. Just realized that my Hapstone will be useless with it's magnetic base

I'm planning on testing out some of the techniques and tools I have from my stone carving experience. I am thinking it will act more like stone than steel when sharpening so I am thinking very fine diamond on various materials.

I have soft backed diamond wheels going up to 50k as well as diamond pastes and powders that work well on leather, wood, paper, etc to figure out what works. I also use cerium oxide and other polishing compounds on leather with some types of stone and will be trying those out too.

I think one key to learning will be getting good magnification to see what is actually going on. You won't be able to feel a burr like with steel and the real magic will be happening at a near microscopic level (for my eyes at least) Still thinking on that part and how I will address being able to see well enough to determine what is working while testing.

Bolster wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:36 am

yablanowitz wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:30 am

I plan to do the same thing I always do, just slower. (I have been freehanding on diamond hones since 1980.)

For those of us who don't have your usual sharpening procedure memorized... at what grit will you start?

I won't know until I have them in hand. I usually reserve the Extra Coarse DMT for chip repair and angle reduction, so I don't expect to be using that initially. The closer they are to acceptable, the finer the hone I start with. I prefer an edge with bite, so I probably won't go to extra extra fine, but you never know.

"HIC's extreme hardness requires diamond or cubic boron nitride (CBN) sharpening media. For best results, finer grit (at least 600 grit) abrasives are recommended." --Spyderco website.

Michael Janich wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:54 am

The HIC Mules are sharpened one at a time by one of our most talented and experienced finishers using a 600-grit diamond wheel. For at-home sharpening, you'll need a diamond or CBN abrasive of at least 600 grit as well. Finer grit (800+) works even better.

36 still available at 12:03 Golden time.

I hope to get my hands on one. A friend is supposed to get me one, that i'll get in a few months.
And if it goes according to plan, I think I'll try any diamond abrasive I have :) and a lot of sweat, apparently

Diamond belts on the worksharp. That's been my strategy for sharpening the Rahven kitchen knives, and it's working on them.

yablanowitz wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:30 am

I plan to do the same thing I always do, just slower. (I have been freehanding on diamond hones since 1980.)

This was exactly what I was going to say. Well, except that I haven't been freehanding on diamond stones since 1980. My big projects for that year were standing up and swallowing solid food. But I have recently sharpened ceramic knives on DMT continous grit bench stones, and it worked quite well. The knives weren't the latest and greatest HIC like the mule, but I imagine the strategy will be about the same: go slow, be patient, and remember that the bur will be very, very delicate--one pass too many could wreck it, so check the edge often, alternate sides frequently, and hold the angle precisely. Slow and steady wins the sharpening race.

Hatuletoh wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:46 pm

go slow, be patient, and remember that the bur will be very, very delicate--one pass too many could wreck it, so check the edge often, alternate sides frequently, and hold the angle precisely. Slow and steady wins the sharpening race.

Please clarify? Ceramic creates a burr? Don't want to wreck the burr?

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:46 am

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:25 am

I bought this in preparation of this mule:

I'll start out with this (if there is any chips) and then work down to the diamond or CBN triangles or the CBN plates. Just realized that my Hapstone will be useless with it's magnetic base

I think if you hit it with coarse it’s going to chip like crazy. I think we’re stuck with the finest diamond options. Something like a paper wheel tormek with diamond paste.

Can the factory sharpening process be revealed? Understand if it’s a trade secret. This might be the first blade where I take up the factory sharpening offer

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:46 am

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:25 am

I bought this in preparation of this mule:

I'll start out with this (if there is any chips) and then work down to the diamond or CBN triangles or the CBN plates. Just realized that my Hapstone will be useless with it's magnetic base

You aren't serious are you? I would think something this coarse would just chip the heck out of the ceramic.

I'm not even thinking of reprofiling this material (and I have a 50 grit "beast" as you pictured and that is what I have it for).

I figure to use pretty fine grits for sharpening (and someone just posted the note about using 600 grit and finer).
And I won't be in any rush to go beyond the factory edge. I'll lie low and learn from other folks here. I expect this to be a whole different ball game.

Tucson Tom wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:58 pm

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:46 am

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:25 am

I bought this in preparation of this mule:

I'll start out with this (if there is any chips) and then work down to the diamond or CBN triangles or the CBN plates. Just realized that my Hapstone will be useless with it's magnetic base

You aren't serious are you? I would think something this coarse would just chip the heck out of the ceramic.

I'm not even thinking of reprofiling this material (and I have a 50 grit "beast" as you pictured and that is what I have it for).

I figure to use pretty fine grits for sharpening (and someone just posted the note about using 600 grit and finer).
And I won't be in any rush to go beyond the factory edge. I'll lie low and learn from other folks here. I expect this to be a whole different ball game.

Nah, it's a worse case scenario if I chip it and have to reprofile. I've no plans to do to change the bevel until it needs it. I have used the beast to "hog" off material and it dug deep into the steel and I didn't bring it completely to the edge. Took a while to even it out. It was new at the time.and there was some proud diamonds that really made a mess.

Bolster wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:50 pm

Hatuletoh wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:46 pm

go slow, be patient, and remember that the bur will be very, very delicate--one pass too many could wreck it, so check the edge often, alternate sides frequently, and hold the angle precisely. Slow and steady wins the sharpening race.

Please clarify? Ceramic creates a burr? Don't want to wreck the burr?

Yeah, you know, the sharp little razor edge you get from the initial sharpening on a more aggressive stone and then even out with a finer grit or maybe even a strop depending on the edge and the steel. Not every steel will get a bur--or at least I'm not talented enough to get one on the hardest super steels--and it isn't necessary if you're just touching up a working edge, but it's the best method I know of for getting a dull edge sharp again. When done correctly the blade looses just a tiny bit of material off the cutting edge so that it's still very sharp but not as fragile. Am I using the term "bur" wrong? I know someone who uses the term "apex" to describe it, but as a verb, which is sloppy English and sounds a little...lewd...to my ears, so I stick with "bur." In any case, the ceramic knives I sharpened would most definitely get that delicate razor edge after many passes on the stone, but being ceramic it was extremely thin, too thin. It probably would have chipped if used for even normal cutting, and after a couple of attempts I learned that I needed to stick to a fine grit and be sure to alternate which side of the blade I was sharpening after just a couple strokes. Hopefully that makes sense; apologies again if I'm misusing a common sharpening term.

Hatuletoh wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:10 pm

Bolster wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:50 pm

Hatuletoh wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:46 pm

go slow, be patient, and remember that the bur will be very, very delicate--one pass too many could wreck it, so check the edge often, alternate sides frequently, and hold the angle precisely. Slow and steady wins the sharpening race.

Please clarify? Ceramic creates a burr? Don't want to wreck the burr?

Yeah, you know, the sharp little razor edge you get from the initial sharpening on a more aggressive stone and then even out with a finer grit or maybe even a strop depending on the edge and the steel. Not every steel will get a bur--or at least I'm not talented enough to get one on the hardest super steels--and it isn't necessary if you're just touching up a working edge, but it's the best method I know of for getting a dull edge sharp again. When done correctly the blade looses just a tiny bit of material off the cutting edge so that it's still very sharp but not as fragile. Am I using the term "bur" wrong? I know someone who uses the term "apex" to describe it, but as a verb, which is sloppy English and sounds a little...lewd...to my ears, so I stick with "bur." In any case, the ceramic knives I sharpened would most definitely get that delicate razor edge after many passes on the stone, but being ceramic it was extremely thin, too thin. It probably would have chipped if used for even normal cutting, and after a couple of attempts I learned that I needed to stick to a fine grit and be sure to alternate which side of the blade I was sharpening after just a couple strokes. Hopefully that makes sense; apologies again if I'm misusing a common sharpening term.

Interesting.

I think you are using the term "Burr" a little off. And more properly describing the apex, and even microbevelling a little if I am reading you correctly.

I'm just not sure I've ever encountered a burr on a ceramic knife. (I'm not sure they can really form a burr in the traditional sense.) That said, I've only ever tried to sharpen a handful of ceramic knives before, and never one of this exact composition.

In my mind the burr is formed when your edge gets to apex and small amounts of steel "bend" over the edge and don't get shaved off by the stone. Thereby creating a small lip on the opposite edge from where you were sharpening. Since ceramic is much more brittle, and not flexible or malleable (in the usual sense of the word) then I'm not sure it can technically form a burr like we are used to. In softer steel it can form a really pronounced burr that you can easily feel and will even catch your fingernail when you try to slide it over the edge. (stropping removes this burr and finely polishes and slightly aligns the apex edge.

I wonder if a tiny burr is actually the phenomenon that you are experiencing or if there is something else entirely going on there. I know I'm definitely interested in trying a few techniques to figure out what works for this new material.

As Sal has said before, "The edge is a ghost"

Traditional burrs:

My plan is to try a linen belt loaded with diamond compound on the 2x72 with a rubber contact wheel. I’ve never sharpened anything like this but if this doesn’t work I’ll probably go to fine diamond stones. I read that these should be done with pretty fine grit to avoid chipping, so my thought was to go in kind of a reverse order from normal and start out with fine and work towards coarser grit if necessary. Part of me figures that worse case I mess this all up and send it back for factory sharpening