Thanks for this great report with photos!
Some have opined a ceramic edge may be smooth and not toothy, but your photos show plenty of tooth. It's almost like the 3-finger test just doesn't work on ceramic (?)
I got a nice mirror polish from my Shapton Kuromaku 2k. It seemed to get a lot of the micro-chipping out as well, but after a certain point it just kinda stops doing anything to it.burlyspyder wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:26 pmAlso, for giggles, I tried to see if I could use my hardest waterstones to do anything, maybe polish, or rid myself of some of the toothiness. As expected, absolutely not. Don't even bother.
I want to amend what I said above... contrary to what I previously said, I ended up going to my bench stones to hand-sharpen and refine the edge, and it has worked pretty well. After using the 1x30 belt sander to smooth out the factory edge, I went to my DMT 1200 mesh (9 micron), and then 4000 mesh (6 micron) Dia-Sharp bench plates, and that has worked pretty well. I found I couldn't get the same control over the edge and bevel angle with the belt sander, and the bench stones gave me better control. So, hand sharpening still works pretty well with the right equipment (I used very fine mesh diamond bench stones).captnvegtble wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:43 pmSuccess!
Below are my limited observations and experience taking a first stab at sharpening this HIC Mule...
1st: Don't try to sharpen by hand
2nd: Use a belt sander with a very fine grit and hard carbides and/or diamond stropping paste
3rd: Go slow and have patience
I started by using my 1x30 mini bench top belt sander with a 800 grit aluminum oxide sanding belt. I didn't see much effect with using the sanding belt alone, so then I applied some yellow DMT diamond stropping paste to the belt and periodically re-applied to uncovered areas as I progressed (note: make sure you get paste all the way to the edges of the belt). Using the flat steel back-plate on the sander, I alternated taking slow passes (couple times per side) using very light pressure and my thumb to stabilize the blade to prevent chattering. I found this to be very effective to even and smooth out the factory grind lines (which came irregular and a bit wavy). Full disclosure... I hand sharpen ALL my blades on bench stones, so using an electric belt sander was a bit of a new experience for me, so it took me 5-10 minutes to get my technique consistent and find the right bevel angle. I also found that moving the blade ABOVE the flat back-plate, decreasing the angle of the blade, and allowing the sanding belt to slightly curve around the bevel as I made passes (much like a strop), really helped to refine the edge.
I spent about 30-40 minutes take slow, light passes (not much pressure, and not much heat build-up), and I have a pretty good working edge that I'm pleased with... but it's still not hair shaving sharp so I plan on spending another 20-30 minutes tomorrow with some more diamond stropping paste to see if I can get it hair shaving sharp. Given how long this takes with a belt sander, I wouldn't recommend anybody try and sharpen this mule by hand... you could spend all day.
Bro. Spyderco couldn't even ship the knife to me that wasn't blunt. I was at least expecting something worth working on. And they expect me to do it for them?kennbr34 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 10:36 amI got a nice mirror polish from my Shapton Kuromaku 2k. It seemed to get a lot of the micro-chipping out as well, but after a certain point it just kinda stops doing anything to it.burlyspyder wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:26 pmAlso, for giggles, I tried to see if I could use my hardest waterstones to do anything, maybe polish, or rid myself of some of the toothiness. As expected, absolutely not. Don't even bother.
I tried for I don't know how long to coax a decent edge out of it with a 9 micron DMT hone. Tried super light pressure, edge-trailing only, etc. Best I could get it to was 200 BESS and too smooth to really pass a 3-finger test.
I'm over this one. If it's this much of a pain to get it decently sharp, it's not worth it to me. I figured that the real challenge would be on actually abrading the material, but it just doesn't work like steel, and I am not really keen on learning to sharpen it. I've just decided to resell it.
Anyone know anything about those Sandrin tungsten carbide blades? Is that material like this, or similar to steel? I kind of figure the "tungsten' bit implies metal lol
I do. They're not like this and more similar to steel. Any other questions I may be able to please ask away as carbide grades were what I did for 27 years.kennbr34 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 10:36 amI got a nice mirror polish from my Shapton Kuromaku 2k. It seemed to get a lot of the micro-chipping out as well, but after a certain point it just kinda stops doing anything to it.burlyspyder wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:26 pmAlso, for giggles, I tried to see if I could use my hardest waterstones to do anything, maybe polish, or rid myself of some of the toothiness. As expected, absolutely not. Don't even bother.
I tried for I don't know how long to coax a decent edge out of it with a 9 micron DMT hone. Tried super light pressure, edge-trailing only, etc. Best I could get it to was 200 BESS and too smooth to really pass a 3-finger test.
I'm over this one. If it's this much of a pain to get it decently sharp, it's not worth it to me. I figured that the real challenge would be on actually abrading the material, but it just doesn't work like steel, and I am not really keen on learning to sharpen it. I've just decided to resell it.
Anyone know anything about those Sandrin tungsten carbide blades? Is that material like this, or similar to steel? I kind of figure the "tungsten' bit implies metal lol
I was ready to give up on it until I started cutting up some cardboard with it. It performs at a much higher level than the edge would have me believe.sal wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:27 pmHi Matt,
Unexpected performance?
It's strange stuff to be sure. I found that my HIC Mule would have no problems slicing tomatoes. Though it didn't "feel" sharp enough to slice a tomato. Normally I would grab a serrated Spyderco to slice a tomato, so I was actually surprised that it worked so well. I've been sharpening it regularly with the coarse CBN rod on the Gauntlet. Perhaps it was the coarser edge on the HIC? .............................. Vivi?
Have any of you found that it performed in a way that you did not expect?
Perhaps the coarser edge affects the Bess in unexpected ways, since we always go finer and finer for a good "Bess Edge".
sal
Interesting - I only tried stropping on the stones given the previous advice. So, I spent an hour or so working the material on some waterstones. First, I tried 1200, and it does actually cut, but the edge becomes very chippy. Then I tried the 4k, and it started to polish reasonably well. Still pretty chippy though.kennbr34 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 10:36 amI got a nice mirror polish from my Shapton Kuromaku 2k. It seemed to get a lot of the micro-chipping out as well, but after a certain point it just kinda stops doing anything to it.burlyspyder wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:26 pmAlso, for giggles, I tried to see if I could use my hardest waterstones to do anything, maybe polish, or rid myself of some of the toothiness. As expected, absolutely not. Don't even bother.
I was using Jende nanocloth-acrylic block and 1um spray in my previous post. I also ordered 0.5um 3M diamond film a few days ago, along with some 2x8x1 aluminum blocks to use as a backings. Acrylic might be better, but I figured if the aluminum backing doesn't work, it's just material I can use for another project.muleshaman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:31 pmNo one here has mentioned trying diamond film. That's what Tom uses to sharpen his ceramic. Diamond film on acrylic blanks, 1"x6" plates. I have a worksharp professional precision adjust that ill be using. I ordered the 45 micron, 15 micron and 9 micron diamond films and also a nanocloth strop with .5 micron max concentration poly diamond stropping emulsion.
You guys know what you are doing with materials more than any other forum I have seen. This is good news!burlyspyder wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:15 amInteresting - I only tried stropping on the stones given the previous advice. So, I spent an hour or so working the material on some waterstones. First, I tried 1200, and it does actually cut, but the edge becomes very chippy. Then I tried the 4k, and it started to polish reasonably well. Still pretty chippy though.
Then I thought - if the edge is so thin and brittle, we should NOT have slurry on the stones. So I left a very light stream of water on the stone as I worked on the 4k, and the results are promising, albeit slow. I am polishing out the previous grit scratches, and the cuts are getting smoother. Following the same line of thought, I can feel tiny chips/grit on the stone develop if my angle gets a bit too high or I get too close to an edge on a stroke, and they are very tiny pieces of the HIC. My hypothesis: When you go over a tiny HIC chip while sharpening, it creates new chips on the apex, leading to perpetual chipping...UNLESS, you keep the stone very clean during the process. This feels right to me.
*placeholder for pics*
All that said, I am now thinking that essentially polishing this to sharpness is the way to go, similar to my previous thought of very high grit (50-100k) on a leather belt. I also strongly suspect I need a more obtuse angle at the the apex to reduce the micro-chipping. I might get into the shop today to play around some more and will post results.
-burly
Hey, I tried 3M 0.1burlyspyder wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:26 amI was using Jende nanocloth-acrylic block and 1um spray in my previous post. I also ordered 0.5um 3M diamond film a few days ago, along with some 2x8x1 aluminum blocks to use as a backings. Acrylic might be better, but I figured if the aluminum backing doesn't work, it's just material I can use for another project.
The nanocloth stropping did work to an extent, but I think it might have a little too much give, allowing the apex to micro-chip.
-burly