Böhler K888 Matrix Steel

[ZrowsN1s]

Saw a post from KKnives Switzerland on Instagram about a new steel from Bohler. Looks interesting. High toughness (charpy).

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2Iacs2MLOw ... dhZWRiYQ==

[endura3]

[Edited to remove inaccurate chart]

It looks pretty similar to PM "matrix steels" like ASP2012, with the additions of silicon and cobalt. I broadly understand that silicon can improve toughness in certain circumstances, and cobalt can improve hardness at high tempering temperatures.





The datasheet shows peak hardness at a tempering temp of around 950°F, so maybe that checks out? but I know speculating about steel composition is pretty meaningless without a background in metallurgy which I very much do not have... I'm curious to hear more about this steel from a pro - assuming this toughness info is correct it seems like it would have exceptional edge stability.

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/01/25/ ... -and-more/

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/05/14/ ... -in-vg-10/

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/10/22/ ... toughness/

https://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/en/pro ... 88-matrix/

[Larrin]

Bohler has never done my toughness test before and I doubt they would start now so I wouldn’t go putting those values on my charts.

My analysis is on Patreon since I didn’t want to do a bunch of property predictions in an “official” video/article.

[endura3]

Bohler has never done my toughness test before and I doubt they would start now so I wouldn’t go putting those values on my charts.

My analysis is on Patreon since I didn’t want to do a bunch of property predictions in an “official” video/article.

That makes a lot of sense - thank you!

[Bolster]

After reviewing the Bohler link above, am I wrong in assuming this is a high-toughness, low-CATRA steel? Bohler only gives 2/5 stars for wear resistance. Doesn't have loads of carbon or vanadium. Regards the kknives_switzerland link, is the comparison made with Z-Tuff actually comparing apples to apples? Same test? I can't tell. Sounds like it gets nice and hard though...tough at 64 Rc, wow, sounds interesting. If the toughness and hardness is that high...doesn't that indicate "chopper" duty? Is this an axe steel?

[KKnives_Switzerland]

After reviewing the Bohler link above, am I wrong in assuming this is a high-toughness, low-CATRA steel? Bohler only gives 2/5 stars for wear resistance. Doesn't have loads of carbon or vanadium. Regards the kknives_switzerland link, is the comparison made with Z-Tuff actually comparing apples to apples? Same test? I can't tell. Sounds like it gets nice and hard though...tough at 64 Rc, wow, sounds interesting. If the toughness and hardness is that high...doesn't that indicate "chopper" duty? Is this an axe steel?

Hi
Like Larrin said; Böhlers toughness test isn't exactly the same like his. IF the toughness of K888 Böhler states turns out to be the same like Larrin's future test results, then yes, it's apples to apples because I was referencing Larrin's toughness data on Z-Tuff.

I got a little bit of K888 from Böhler and hope to get more in the near future for sending it to Larrin.
I for myself hope to soon build charts with it and come up with an ideal ht protocol, but for now, orders are keeping me very busy.

That all being said, there is only one way to find out what K888 Matrix really can do: testing!

[Fireman]

After reviewing the Bohler link above, am I wrong in assuming this is a high-toughness, low-CATRA steel? Bohler only gives 2/5 stars for wear resistance. Doesn't have loads of carbon or vanadium. Regards the kknives_switzerland link, is the comparison made with Z-Tuff actually comparing apples to apples? Same test? I can't tell. Sounds like it gets nice and hard though...tough at 64 Rc, wow, sounds interesting. If the toughness and hardness is that high...doesn't that indicate "chopper" duty? Is this an axe steel?

Hi
Like Larrin said; Böhlers toughness test isn't exactly the same like his. IF the toughness of K888 Böhler states turns out to be the same like Larrin's future test results, then yes, it's apples to apples because I was referencing Larrin's toughness data on Z-Tuff.

I got a little bit of K888 from Böhler and hope to get more in the near future for sending it to Larrin.
I for myself hope to soon build charts with it and come up with an ideal ht protocol, but for now, orders are keeping me very busy.

That all being said, there is only one way to find out what K888 Matrix really can do: testing!

Hey buddy! Are you excited about the ceramic mule about to be released? Glad to see you posting here. Always enjoy reading your posts.

[KKnives_Switzerland]

Glad my stuff is interesting to you. I'm very much looking forward, I think it will be cool to see what Spyderco makes of it!

[JD Spydo]

I have had such excellent luck using my Bohler M390 blade on my Spyderco C-36 Military model as my primary EDC for quite some time now. I find Bohler's M390 to be nearly a perfect steel for most everyday cutting jobs. It sharpens up really nicely and maintains a working edge for quite a while.

If they would make a Military 2 model with this new Bohler steel I would get one ASAP.

[KKnives_Switzerland]

I have had such excellent luck using my Bohler M390 blade on my Spyderco C-36 Military model as my primary EDC for quite some time now. I find Bohler's M390 to be nearly a perfect steel for most everyday cutting jobs. It sharpens up really nicely and maintains a working edge for quite a while.

If they would make a Military 2 model with this new Bohler steel I would get one ASAP.

If it's Böhler steels you're after, there are many more Spyderco model using them, most notably K390. K888 MATRIX is, unlike M390, focused on toughness. If you like M390 and don't mind patina, really give K390 a try!

[JD Spydo]

I have had such excellent luck using my Bohler M390 blade on my Spyderco C-36 Military model as my primary EDC for quite some time now. I find Bohler's M390 to be nearly a perfect steel for most everyday cutting jobs. It sharpens up really nicely and maintains a working edge for quite a while.

If they would make a Military 2 model with this new Bohler steel I would get one ASAP.

If it's Böhler steels you're after, there are many more Spyderco model using them, most notably K390. K888 MATRIX is, unlike M390, focused on toughness. If you like M390 and don't mind patina, really give K390 a try!

I have used K390 and I like it. It's not necessarily a Bohler issue per se. So what you're saying is that this K888 Matrix steel would be more like let's say a tough tool steel like S7 for instance that is used in many striking tools. Or am I thinking wrong?

Before M390 became one of my favorite steels for "USER" blades I had problems keeping a working edge for a longer period of time with several other steel like VG-10 and about 12 others I could mention. And I find M390 easier to sharpen and better to maintain longer than other supersteels I've tried.

So what would this new Bohler steel be ideally used for?

[Jesla]

I have had such excellent luck using my Bohler M390 blade on my Spyderco C-36 Military model as my primary EDC for quite some time now. I find Bohler's M390 to be nearly a perfect steel for most everyday cutting jobs. It sharpens up really nicely and maintains a working edge for quite a while.

If they would make a Military 2 model with this new Bohler steel I would get one ASAP.

If it's Böhler steels you're after, there are many more Spyderco model using them, most notably K390. K888 MATRIX is, unlike M390, focused on toughness. If you like M390 and don't mind patina, really give K390 a try!

I have used K390 and I like it. It's not necessarily a Bohler issue per se. So what you're saying is that this K888 Matrix steel would be more like let's say a tough tool steel like S7 for instance that is used in many striking tools. Or am I thinking wrong?

Before M390 became one of my favorite steels for "USER" blades I had problems keeping a working edge for a longer period of time with several other steel like VG-10 and about 12 others I could mention. And I find M390 easier to sharpen and better to maintain longer than other supersteels I've tried.

So what would this new Bohler steel be ideally used for?

Axe heads maybe?…

[KKnives_Switzerland]

I have had such excellent luck using my Bohler M390 blade on my Spyderco C-36 Military model as my primary EDC for quite some time now. I find Bohler's M390 to be nearly a perfect steel for most everyday cutting jobs. It sharpens up really nicely and maintains a working edge for quite a while.

If they would make a Military 2 model with this new Bohler steel I would get one ASAP.

If it's Böhler steels you're after, there are many more Spyderco model using them, most notably K390. K888 MATRIX is, unlike M390, focused on toughness. If you like M390 and don't mind patina, really give K390 a try!

I have used K390 and I like it. It's not necessarily a Bohler issue per se. So what you're saying is that this K888 Matrix steel would be more like let's say a tough tool steel like S7 for instance that is used in many striking tools. Or am I thinking wrong?

Before M390 became one of my favorite steels for "USER" blades I had problems keeping a working edge for a longer period of time with several other steel like VG-10 and about 12 others I could mention. And I find M390 easier to sharpen and better to maintain longer than other supersteels I've tried.

So what would this new Bohler steel be ideally used for?

It's indeed much more similar to S7, practically speaking. Therefore it should be ideal for any type of blade where high toughness is required. However, due to the high compressive strength it also possesses, I can see it perform really well in knives with very thin behind the edge geometry. I also made a realllly thin straight razor out of its "predecessor," if you will, Uddeholm Caldie, and it provides me to date with the most comfortable shave I know. When I tried similar, literally paper thin razor geometries with other, classic razor steels, I would sooner or later always get deformation issues. Only Caldie holds up since by now 3 years. So maybe we also have a next level razor steel with K888 Matrix.
If you didn't know: matrix steels feature very little to no carbides so it's great for razors. I might finally get commercially into the straight razor game with K888 MATRIX if it turns out to hold up. Caldie has given me high hopes at least for that!

[Edit:] Larrin wrote a great article on what matrix steels are; it's a class of steel on its own:
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/01/25/ ... -and-more/

[Wartstein]

I am not a steel expert at all, but as an Austrian always proud when Böhler (Austrian company) is mentioned and produces good stuff!
(For those (few..?) who might not know (some Americans actually do not): Austria is NOT AustrALia... )

[KKnives_Switzerland]

I am not a steel expert at all, but as an Austrian always proud when Böhler (Austrian company) is mentioned and produces good stuff!
(For those (few..?) who might not know (some Americans actually do not): Austria is NOT AustrALia... )

Being half Austrian, I approve this message

[Wartstein]

I am not a steel expert at all, but as an Austrian always proud when Böhler (Austrian company) is mentioned and produces good stuff!
(For those (few..?) who might not know (some Americans actually do not): Austria is NOT AustrALia... )

Being half Austrian, I approve this message

[Bolster]

(For those (few..?) who might not know (some Americans actually do not): Austria is NOT AustrALia... )

Wait a second. So you're saying that the Von Trapp family and Crocodile Dundee are not from the same country?!?

[Wartstein]

(For those (few..?) who might not know (some Americans actually do not): Austria is NOT AustrALia... )

Wait a second. So you're saying that the Von Trapp family and Crocodile Dundee are not from the same country?!?

They actually sell these T Shirts here in Austria (not kidding!)... so that American tourists don´t mix up where they are...

[AlexRus]

I am not a steel expert at all, but as an Austrian always proud when Böhler (Austrian company) is mentioned and produces good stuff!
(For those (few..?) who might not know (some Americans actually do not): Austria is NOT AustrALia... )

https://youtu.be/gtI7cjl-hZo?feature=shared

[Giygas]

Wouldn't k890 still be far tougher that any average user would actually need/even notice, while having better edge retention?

Knowing Bohler, though, I'm assuming k888 is gonna be to k890 what Vanadis 8 was to Vanadis 10.

Either way, New steel is always interesting!