New Discoveries found in 8Cr13MoV testing

[kriezek]

My sample group of 8CR consists of 3 Kershaws. I was impressed with none of them. Edge holding was less than my VG10 Spydercos or 154CM Benchmades. Sharpening them was easy enough, but occasionally they seemed to develop a burr that I'd have to get past to get a good edge. I gave 2 away & held onto the CQC7K to use as a beater.

Not used any of Spyderco's knives in 8CR. I'm tempted by the Astute, but my experience with Kershaw's 8CR knives kind of put me off the steel.

Not going to denigrate other companies, BUT my testing standard on a steel doesn't begin until I have a Spyderco in my hand. Their hardening processes are top notch imo and I have had great experience with various steels from them.

Not saying 8CR is the THE steel, but if that is the price range you are looking at for a knife, you should not shy away from it.

[Bolster]

This information is quite thought provoking and really shows another previously hidden variable to be accounted for ...

Exactly. These types of insights are only obtainable by careful testing and measurement, not from so-called "real world" impressions, opinions, accepted narratives, conventional wisdom, and anecdotes. Since the beginning of science, detractors have been throwing mud at laboratory experiments as "unrealistic." Yet without lab-based research, where extraneous variables can be held constant, controls established for valid comparisons, and results carefully observed, we'd still be living in a nonscientific world akin to the European medieval ages or earlier, where nearly all knowledge was "real world" and almost none of it was laboratory.

What's been discovered appears to be a mediating variable (banding) that moderates the effect of CATRA score to the point that it's actually opposite of expectations under certain conditions. Well done. Somebody should be getting a PhD awarded on research such as this.

[z1r]

My sample group of 8CR consists of 3 Kershaws. I was impressed with none of them. Edge holding was less than my VG10 Spydercos or 154CM Benchmades. Sharpening them was easy enough, but occasionally they seemed to develop a burr that I'd have to get past to get a good edge. I gave 2 away & held onto the CQC7K to use as a beater.

Not used any of Spyderco's knives in 8CR. I'm tempted by the Astute, but my experience with Kershaw's 8CR knives kind of put me off the steel.

I will say, that compared to the other brand's of 8cr I own, I feel Spyderco performs better. Not astronomically better but tangibly better. I do really like it in SE because of how easy it is to get. Honestly, despite ALL the other Spyderco's I own, my favorite working knife is a SE Byrd Harrier II Wharnie.

[skeeg11]

My sample group of 8CR consists of 3 Kershaws. I was impressed with none of them. Edge holding was less than my VG10 Spydercos or 154CM Benchmades. Sharpening them was easy enough, but occasionally they seemed to develop a burr that I'd have to get past to get a good edge. I gave 2 away & held onto the CQC7K to use as a beater.

Not used any of Spyderco's knives in 8CR. I'm tempted by the Astute, but my experience with Kershaw's 8CR knives kind of put me off the steel.

I will say, that compared to the other brand's of 8cr I own, I feel Spyderco performs better. Not astronomically better but tangibly better. I do really like it in SE because of how easy it is to get. Honestly, despite ALL the other Spyderco's I own, my favorite working knife is a SE Byrd Harrier II Wharnie.

I'll vouch for that. Heck of a lot of knife for the money. Get one while you can as Spyderco/Byrd discontinued a bunch of their Wharnie line up.

[vivi]

this 8Cr knife is the only one I've used that performs as good as my 8Cr spydies

https://files.catbox.moe/5kan7b.jpg

Other companies seem to run it softer. Always feels more prone to burring outside of my Byrd/Spyderco/CS knives.

[sal]

Hi Larrin,

Nicely done. Thanx much for the effort and for sharing.

sal

[Doc Dan]

Hi Larrin,

Nicely done. Thanx much for the effort and for sharing.

sal

Not Larrin. Deadboxhero.

[Deadboxhero]

Hi Larrin,

Nicely done. Thanx much for the effort and for sharing.

sal

Not Larrin. Deadboxhero.

Well, he's not wrong Doc

I was sharing Dr Larrin's Video, I made this thread to share what excited me specifically about the lastest testing which was the carbide banding behavior.

Knife Steel Nerds is off to a good start for 2024.

[Deadboxhero]

Exactly. These types of insights are only obtainable by careful testing and measurement, not from so-called "real world" impressions, opinions, accepted narratives, conventional wisdom, and anecdotes. Since the beginning of science, detractors have been throwing mud at laboratory experiments as "unrealistic." Yet without lab-based research, where extraneous variables can be held constant, controls established for valid comparisons, and results carefully observed, we'd still be living in a nonscientific world akin to the European medieval ages or earlier, where nearly all knowledge was "real world" and almost none of it was laboratory.

Well said, there are certainly levels to things and things seem to get less intuitive the deeper we go.
Without good testing and measurement, many hidden wonders will forever remain a mystery.

What's been discovered appears to be a mediating variable (banding) that moderates the effect of CATRA score to the point that it's actually opposite of expectations under certain conditions. Well done.

It was really cool to see. Personally, my curiosity seems to have a voracious appetite, I am now pondering If the difference between the banded areas and the non-banded areas can be measured and maybe in some steels the difference is more drastic or perhaps it is miniscule.

Somebody should be getting a PhD awarded on research such as this.

Thank you for the wonderful compliments you have shared about the detailed testing work many of us have worked on.

Speaking for myself personally, I don't want or desire anything so grandiose.

The journey itself is its own reward.

"The cure to boredom is curiosity and for curiosity there is no cure." -Dorothy Parker

[Larrin]

Hi Larrin,

Nicely done. Thanx much for the effort and for sharing.

sal

Thanks Sal!

[Doc Dan]

Hi Larrin,

Nicely done. Thanx much for the effort and for sharing.

sal

Not Larrin. Deadboxhero.

Well, he's not wrong Doc

I was sharing Dr Larrin's Video, I made this thread to share what excited me specifically about the lastest testing which was the carbide banding behavior.

Knife Steel Nerds is off to a good start for 2024.

Duh!

Well, I'm not feeling good so apologies all around.

[Larrin]

Shawn ground the CATRA blades and did the “metallography” for this study so he helped a lot with the study. Metallography includes mounting the steel in epoxy, polishing, etching with acid, and imaging on the microscope.

[sal]

Hi Shawn,

Thanx to you also,

sal

[ZrowsN1s]

Fascinating stuff

[Bemo]

I found this fascinating like the rest of you. My guess is that the carbide banding can vary greatly from blade to blade, thereby affecting perceived performance. One person may get the banding close to the edge while someone else's blade may have it far from the edge. Anecdotal reports would vary significantly on the performance of the edge. Actually may explain somethings with ingot versus PM steels. Now if you could control the banding... pick where it shows up in the blade... would almost be like differential hardening of the steel.

[Deadboxhero]

I found this fascinating like the rest of you. My guess is that the carbide banding can vary greatly from blade to blade, thereby affecting perceived performance. One person may get the banding close to the edge while someone else's blade may have it far from the edge. Anecdotal reports would vary significantly on the performance of the edge. Actually may explain somethings with ingot versus PM steels. Now if you could control the banding... pick where it shows up in the blade... would almost be like differential hardening of the steel.

Differential banding

[PaloArt]

I think 8Cr13Mov is, as mentioned, quite underrated. My first Spyderco was Tenacious, bought two months after it`s release. I remember i was not happy with edge holding but after years, out of nostalgia I purchased LW Tan version and I have to say something either had to change in the HT protocol or my mind is playing tricks, but it holds an edge way better than I expected or remembered. Currently simple 8Cr13Mov blade is the one I enjoy most due to it`s surprisingly good edge retention and ease of sharpening.

My first knife was in AUS-6, so perhaps I am not much "spoiled" by starting already with supersteels though.

Good stuff, good video.

[Toucan]

this 8Cr knife is the only one I've used that performs as good as my 8Cr spydies

https://files.catbox.moe/5kan7b.jpg

Other companies seem to run it softer. Always feels more prone to burring outside of my Byrd/Spyderco/CS knives.

Never realized the SR1 Lite looks like a tactical Counter Puppy.

[Doc Dan]

So, how would the edge angle affect the results? Say, 30º inclusive vs 20º inclusive? What was the angle of the edge being tested and how thin behind the edge was the blade?

[sal]

Hey Shawn, Larrin,

I'd like to personally thank you for sharing this information on our forum. It is much appreciated. I'm sure our visitors also appreciate being able to come here and get this stuff.

sal