Ok, could it be that LC200N fares better against Magnacut than some might think?

[RugerNurse]

I’m thinking of getting a salt 2 in H1 or H2 steel, whatever is in stock right now. It’s tough, would make a nice beater knife. Edge retention isn’t everything to me. I’d rather have the toughness.

[Josh Crutchley]

I think sometimes people are discussing different things when strength, toughness and edge stability are brought up.

The way I personally define it:

edge stability - an edges ability to resist change

toughness - an edges ability to resist chipping and fracturing when its toughness limits are exceeded

H1 would rank very high in toughness and very low in edge stability. K390 would rank very high with edge stability but (theoretically) not so high with toughness.

How would you rate REX 45 then?

My REX 54 Manixes edge, just like the REX Para 3 in Shawns vid, can really take pretty extreme abuse without both chipping or rolling... its "toughness limit" though should be not too high, just by the general properties and specs of the steel.

Obviously Spydercos REX 45 is run pretty hard - but does this high hardness really contribute to "toughness" (which would be the opposite of what many say...)? Or rather to general "egde stability"?

One way to understand toughness and edge stability is to look at a stress/strain chart of brittle vs ductile materials. Typically the harder a steel is the more stress it can handle like the cart shows for the brittle material. Tough steels can't handle as much stress but they can absorb more energy through deformation. Of course hardness isn't the only factor, microstructure also plays a roll.

[JoviAl]

I have been using Spyderco’s Magnacut and LC200N intensively at work for the last year or so (700-1500 cuts per day in wood/large torch ginger stems/banana palms/ropes/whatever needs cutting in a managed tropical food-forest environment). I have found the Magnacut usually keeps its effective edge about twice as long as LC200N - I just have to sharpen it at the end of the work day, rather than at lunchtimes as well. I find LC200N will roll rather than chip, but that might be down to my LC200N being SE and ~15 degrees inclusive, whereas my magnacut is at 28 degrees inc.

I’m looking forward to my H2 Stretch 2 XL SE turning up to see how that pans out.

In summary, in my experience both steels are super easy to sharpen and make fantastic work tools, with LC being a shade easier to traditionally sharpen and Magnacut being very easy to dual grit. I hammer the snot out of both of them at work and they both are excellent. Magnacut to me is basically a mega stainless analogue of K390 (which I also love), whereas LC200N is more of a marine version of VG10 (again, which I like a lot).

I fear I’ve just said a lot and added nothing of value to this conversation.

[sal]

Hi Al,

All input is good input for me.

sal

[kriezek]

Al,

Your input is precisely what folks like myself are looking for. Real world data from those who use their knives day after day and know from experience how the steels fare against one another. You make more cuts in a week than one of my knives will in its life now that I am retired and no longer hunt, camp, or hit the woods like I used to. Thanks for your insights because even though I don't do those things, I still LOVE knives and can't resist a good knife steel for what it has to offer when I do need it and can use it.

[ladybug93]

I fear I’ve just said a lot and added nothing of value to this conversation.

your input is helpful. thanks for sharing!

[JoviAl]

Al,

Your input is precisely what folks like myself are looking for. Real world data from those who use their knives day after day and know from experience how the steels fare against one another. You make more cuts in a week than one of my knives will in its life now that I am retired and no longer hunt, camp, or hit the woods like I used to. Thanks for your insights because even though I don't do those things, I still LOVE knives and can't resist a good knife steel for what it has to offer when I do need it and can use it.

Thanks

It was a bit of a ‘train of thought’ response to the OP. I’m glad my ramblings were helpful to somebody.

I wouldn’t hesitate to buy either steel again (I have knives in both on pre-order right now), but when gifting knives to folk I tend to pick forgiving steels and LC200N definitely is (in my experience at least) a very forgiving steel for folk new to high quality knives. In future I think I’m going to start giving knives paired with Sharpmakers as gifts instead of just the knife itself.

[Fireman]

My matrix and carbides are better than your matrix and carbides.

[Fireman]

In a kitchen knife, I would rather have LC200N, in an EDC pocket knife, I would rather have MC. You can add “Toughness” by thickening the knife stock so MC can make up for the difference in toughness as far as a catastrophic failure. I can’t see me needing the toughness of 10mm thick MC but I am glad I have it on my folder I have the PMP Alpha Beast in MC or the Magna Beast as I call it. I can’t imagine needing 10 mm of toughness that MC brings but I love it. I do want a custom thick stock LC200N Camp knife with about an 8” blade of somewhere around 1/4 - 5/16 thickness designed to be a one knife solution.

[Brock O Lee]

In terms of edge stability (resistance to edge deformation, either through rolling or chipping):

"Hardness appears to be the strongest controlling factor for edge stability."

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/09/24/ ... ty-part-2/

I like MC because it is heat treated harder than LC (typically 62+ vs high 50's), and is still regarded as a tough, very stainless and wear resistant steel at that hardness.

Relevant post viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83847&p=1763008#p1762993 from the HRC Database thread.

[Wartstein]

So, concerning my question about LC vs MC Erics comments in the new blade HQ vid are really interesting - see here https://youtu.be/32eKN-YgoEY?feature=shared, starting at about 16:40:
Just some quotes from the vid:

- "...very similar attributes in both of them.."
- "... "as far as corrosion resistance: They are incredibly similar; as far as edge retention: They are incredibly similar..."
- "... don´t want to pit one against the other as far as which ones better on edge retention and corrosion resistance - they are pretty close"

Concerning edge retention this is a bit different to what thought (I can´t know from practical experience, since I did not MC but only LC so far) and also is pretty far off to Larrins charts.
And, if edge retention is closer than commonly said, this could be a point for LC, since it appearently tougher than MC... ?

(Also interesting in the vid: The comments about MC being advantageous when it comes to cost and "sourcability").

[kennethsime]

I wonder if perhaps by optimizing their heat treat for corrosion resistance, they sacrificed some wear resistance?

I’ve heard other knife makers comment that they’re running Magnacut at 60-62 for fixed blades for better toughness, and 62-64 for pocket knives for better wear resistance.

I imagine the Spyderco heat treat is more than just achieving a certain hardness, but it would be interesting to know what steps they may have taken to optimize for corrosion resistance.

[JoviAl]

So, concerning my question about LC vs MC Erics comments in the new blade HQ vid are really interesting - see here https://youtu.be/32eKN-YgoEY?feature=shared, starting at about 16:40:
Just some quotes from the vid:

- "...very similar attributes in both of them.."
- "... "as far as corrosion resistance: They are incredibly similar; as far as edge retention: They are incredibly similar..."
- "... don´t want to pit one against the other as far as which ones better on edge retention and corrosion resistance - they are pretty close"

Concerning edge retention this is a bit different to what thought (I can´t know from practical experience, since I did not MC but only LC so far) and also is pretty far off to Larrins charts.
And, if edge retention is closer than commonly said, this could be a point for LC, since it appearently tougher than MC... ?

(Also interesting in the vid: The comments about MC being advantageous when it comes to cost and "sourcability").

I wonder if this comment stems from using and testing both LC200N and Magnacut sharpened with a factory edge in a material that naturally favours the properties of the LC200N I don’t for a moment think Eric would be saying that disingenuously for some nefarious reason (I can’t even think of any).

With an optimised dual grit edge Magnacut blows LC200N out of the water for what I use it for. I’ve tried dual grit on LC200N and while it’s an improvement over a polished edge, I’ve found the best performance in my situation is a low inclusive edge angle with a very coarse finish (CBN and brown rod to finish). It still only lasts till lunchtime before it needs sharpening again, but that’s about 3-400 hard hacking cuts. In the same environment cutting the same stuff the magnacut lasts a full day, sometimes even a day and a half. The only comparable steel I have used where it seems to just keep on trucking with the work is SE K390, but unfortunately that throws its rusty teddy out of the pram with all the sweat, humidity and good old monsoon rain we get here even when slathered in marine protectant.

Maybe I’m an outlier use case that is favourable to MC over LC Ultimately I don’t mind what anyone says about them as they both make fantastic tools. We live in a very privileged time that we have the chance to pick from three outstanding marine grade knife steels.

[vivi]

JoviAl, I haven't used magnacut yet, but I've used H1, H2 and LC200N.

I'd put LC200N's edge holding around VG10 with a typical edge. Oddly enough with a very coarse finish (coarser than diamond sharpmaker rods, 200-400 grit) LC seems to hold an edge a little better for me than VG10 for some reason.

What non-salt steel would you compare magnacut to in terms of edge retention? S30V? S90V? K390? (Assuming these steels are used in an environment where corrosion resistance isn't affecting edge holding, like slicing cardboard inside a garage).

[Wartstein]

JoviAl, I haven't used magnacut yet, but I've used H1, H2 and LC200N.

I'd put LC200N's edge holding around VG10 with a typical edge. Oddly enough with a very coarse finish (coarser than diamond sharpmaker rods, 200-400 grit) LC seems to hold an edge a little better for me than VG10 for some reason.
...

As far as I can tell, in my use I feel like LC is even a bit below VG10 when it comes to edge holding.

Might be due to the way I am sharpening, and also my 2 LC knives get used pretty "untypical" for me, which makes comparisons harder (My Salt 2 SE get´s carried, but not actually used a lot, since it is my dedicated "I DON´T expect a lot of cutting, bring it just in case" outdoor folder; my Waterway is a fixed blade, which I use a bit differently to a folder (and also not too often)).

Anyway, I can recall that when LC came out folks claimed it would have edge holding like S30V or at least between VG10 and S30V - not true in my experience, for whatever that´s worth.

[elena86]

Actually my favorite is H1/H2 serrated if I had to choose

[Wartstein]

Actually my favorite is H1/H2 serrated if I had to choose

Yes, it´s amazing!

... I said above that the (ffg) Salt 2 SE in LC is my outdoor folder when I actually DON`T expect a lot of cutting -
... if I DO, I most times grab my H1 SE Pac Salt, and it works like a Champ, still going strong after a ton of use so far.

[TomAiello]

I think this is a case of 'all good, just different'. I personally prefer Magnacut to LC200N. I also personally prefer 4v to 3v (which is a reasonably similar comparison). If I had to pick one steel to use for everything forever, out of the commonly available steels on the market right now, it would probably be Magnacut (the other competitor would be Vanax, actually, which I prefer to LC200N).

That doesn't mean that Magnacut is 'better' than LC200N. There are definitely going to be people who prefer one or the other. That's a good thing. More choices means we can all have different preferences and all get things we like.

[JoviAl]

JoviAl, I haven't used magnacut yet, but I've used H1, H2 and LC200N.

I'd put LC200N's edge holding around VG10 with a typical edge. Oddly enough with a very coarse finish (coarser than diamond sharpmaker rods, 200-400 grit) LC seems to hold an edge a little better for me than VG10 for some reason.

What non-salt steel would you compare magnacut to in terms of edge retention? S30V? S90V? K390? (Assuming these steels are used in an environment where corrosion resistance isn't affecting edge holding, like slicing cardboard inside a garage).

Hi Vivi

I’m going to give your ultra-coarse LC200N a go today. I thought I was going coarse enough with CBN then brown rods to take off any burr, but given your experience maybe it’s time to break out the corner of the 50 grit diamond KME plate and give that a spin. I’m on a Risk Assessment Officer cert course, so it’s either sharpen my knives on my breaks or chew off my own arm to relieve the tedium.

As for Magnacut’s parallel in another steel it seems to depend on how you sharpen it (go figure ) - with a dual grit edge it is up there with Cruwear and K390, but with a mirror polished edge it’s more like Elmax in that it holds a wicked initial sharpness but fades fairly fast. Again, I add the caveat - I’m using mine to cut a lot of relatively soft but dirty plant stuff mainly, with rope, lorry tarp and hard wood on the side. I mainly hack and slash rather than doing draw cuts like one might with cardboard, and what I’m cutting is invariably wet and often muddy. Imagine my normal cuts to be like a low-budget horticultural samurai. The stuff I’m cutting is also often full of sticky or corrosive sap and whatnot. I’m acutely aware that my use of these steels is quite niche and may not be the sort of thing people do with an EDC blade, so YMMV.

Short answer - something between Elmax and good CruWear/K390.

[Wartstein]

Ok, folks, in the newest knife center vid (see here, starting at about 10:15 https://youtu.be/e2GOsed_NCM?si=6zwAqSnzt30FSncK&t=615 ) Eric explicitly referes to wear resistance, not "only" edge retention when he states that there is not much of a difference between LC and MC:

Quotes:

- "I don´t know if it [Magnacut] just totally obviously holds an edge much longer [than LC200N]

"LC 200N is good, I would leave it to the customer to compete for wear resistance

" I honestly think they are comparable in a lot of ways - both have great edge retention, both have great wear resistance