Ok, could it be that LC200N fares better against Magnacut than some might think?

[Wartstein]

(I meant to ask this in a dedicated thread for some time now, but (silly and off topic) brought it up in two other threads already (see this thread starting here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=96010#p1762126 and this thread starting here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=95986#p1761286)

Still I think a dedicated thread would be better and would really appreciate if also those who replied already elsewhere would chime in here once more.)

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Now, to be clear: In the following I am not "telling" - I am absolutely just asking, since by far I don´t have the necessary background, knowledge and experience.

- I can´t help but getting the feeling, that most feel like MC is an improvement over LC and would chose the former over the latter.
My complete theoretical and layman-ish thoughts (never even tried MC myself) when comparing the two:

- Corrosion resistance: Both in any just remotely normal use pretty much completely rustproof, but when things get really extreme: LC "wins"
- Ease of sharpening: LC "wins"
- Edge retention: MC "wins"
- Toughness: LC "wins"

So just going by that MCs real advantage is better edge retention.

BUT: LC being even tougher could potentially mean, that it can take steeper [EDIT: I mean MORE ACUTE] edge angles which could translate to enhanced edge retention which would bring it closer to MC in that regard again.

I won´t repeat the elaborate and clever things folks have said already in those other threads about "toughness / tensile strength", "resisting impact through hardness" (while not being THAT tough) and so on.
I´d hope that we could gather thoughts and experiences (generally and once more) in THIS dedicated thread

[benja-man]

What edge angle would you folks think of as the theoretical limit for LC200n? I entertain the idea to go as low as sensible with my UKPK Salt...

[Windward]

Here is my response from the seki MC thread, with a little more elaboration....

This is sort of how i feel. Ill preface this that i only have months of experience with magnacut (native) vs a couple years of hard use on various LC blades. Don't want to seem like im so negative on the stuff, I do like magnacut... alot, but in a real world, really hard use, saltwater soaked daily environment, it hasn't shown me much that its worth using over my lc200n stuff. It often falls short compared. Toughness and corrosion resitance are the most important things for me in my work knives, and so far MC has fallen below LC in both. (Both fall short of my favorite steel, H1/2 SE). In my experience MC has been more prone to edge damage, and takes a little more attention than LC (Which i have rusted). That said, MC has a clear advantage in edge retention. Stuff stays sharp a good while, and is my #1 choice for most less abusive cuts. (Boat shrink wrap, cardboard, etc). LC's edge retention isnt so bad though that it's useless. It holds a sharp edge roughly as long as vg10, which is really fine, and i keep a sharpmaker and strop in my work tool box. I can fix the edge in a couple mins with ease. For the really aslbusive cuts, im gonna grab my h1 serrated firsr anyway.

I really like MC, its a fantastic steel. Among the best i think. For EDC. Its tough to beat, I just dont like it enough to replace LC, and god forbid H2 in a work knife. I really look forward to bringing my manix salt and maybe even a native chief MC into my work rotation this year to see if my mind changes. Maybe as i play with edge angle and larger blades ill have a change of mind.

[kobold]

I think it's worth exploring the wider range of heat treats and outcomes available to MC. A single copy (eg the Native) might not give us the full spectrum of its capabilities.
Although, since the Native is marketed as a Salt, we might presume its steel was optimized with that in mind, so a comparison to another salt steel is valid.
So far, my MC Native is performing well, but I only have it for a few weeks.
LC200N, OTOH, I have a lot of experience (but mostly in SE) and I am very happy with it.
Extreme corrosion resistance is not the most important to me, I value edge stability and ease of sharpening more.

[Wartstein]

Here is my response from the seki MC thread, with a little more elaboration....
....

Thanks for taking the time to post again here, really appreciate it!

Hope we can get a dedicated discussion going in this thread (probably starting only next year... )

And, honestly, glad you joined the forum recently and share your experience and knowledge! Really sounds like you´d have a lot of interesting "real world / real use" stuff so share!

[Wartstein]

Anoher thing I´d be intersted in when comparing LC and MC:

- Very long term edge degredation through corrosion

I am probably a bit known for practically (and even to me mysteriously) never really having corrosion issues with my folders - despite I use and carry them all the time in wet, damp, muddy conditions, carry them iwb on sweaty runs, cut all kinds of food (fruits, meat...) and sometimes really don´t clean the blades for quite some time.
And this is true for also REX 45, HXP, and VG10, S30V anyway.

BUT: The only area where I think corrosions resistance could potentially play a role for me exactly IS slow, unnoticed "edge degredation", so corrosion right on the very edge, making it dull over time (without use).

Long story short:

Since LC appereantly is even better in corrosion resistance than MC:
When let´s say keeping the knives in a very humid environment over a long period of time (for emergency use or just as a backup):
Would an MC edge have more risk of "degrading" over time than LC? To an amount that could be noticed?

[Danke]

How does price and availability factor into the equation? It seems like right now everyone has a Magnacut model but not so much for LC200N. Running a quick look online shows 30 LC200N models in a store, 28 of them from Spyderco.

I don't have any Magnacut knives yet but I do have LC200N and my Spidiechef is pretty well my favorite pocket knife; it holds a sharp edge and is easy to bring back to that edge after use. And I were to say what I feel that I like best it's a tool steel with a patina so not really worried about corrosion.

[Coastal]

I'm following with interest. Most of my Salt experience is with H1. A little bit with LC and almost none with MagnaCut. My impression, developed solely from others' experiences, is that MagnaCut is nearly perfect for EDC, probably great for hunting, but maybe just decent for fishing or diving. I hope Surfgringo will weigh in with his wealth of knowledge.

Honest question: Is a "steeper" edge angle a lower one, as implied in the OP? I've always considered a "shallow" angle to be lower, for example: 30 degrees included is shallower than 40 degrees, which would be "steeper." In fact, a good mnemonic is that the word "shallower" includes the word "lower."

[Wartstein]

....

Honest question: Is a "steeper" edge angle a lower one, as implied in the OP? I've always considered a "shallow" angle to be lower, for example: 30 degrees included is shallower than 40 degrees, which would be "steeper." In fact, a good mnemonic is that the word "shallower" includes the word "lower."

Oh man ... I am not a Native speaker in English, what I meant is of course that LC, being tougher, perhaps could take MORE ACUTE edge angels than MC.. will edit my op accordingly...

[Wartstein]

How does price and availability factor into the equation? It seems like right now everyone has a Magnacut model but not so much for LC200N. Running a quick look online shows 30 LC200N models in a store, 28 of them from Spyderco.
...

Perhaps the right place to reiterate what I pointed out in another thread:

- Spyderco not only has by far the vast majority of LC models in their lineup, but with the Native 5 Salt and the Chief Salt also two models that come both in LC and MC - and there is no price difference between the MC and the LC versions.

Don´t know how long this will be the case, or if perhaps even MORE Salts will come in both steels?

Because maybe Spyderco is aware of that the use cases of LC and MC overlap a lot, but LC can still do things MC can´t and vice versa, and so it´s good to give people choices ?
(Again: it is NOT the case that one would be the "lower grade steel" budget version! Same prices!)

[ladybug93]

i really think very few of us have enough experience to really comment on this.

i have a few knives in h1 i've carried for years. i have a few knives in lc200n i've carried for years. i have a magnacut mule i've carried on hikes since i got it. i'd still consider my experience too limited.

[hobbyist]

I think it’s high time for an LC200N dragonfly.

[Wartstein]

i really think very few of us have enough experience to really comment on this.
..

Thinking about it I am afraid you are very right and it is probably a bit early for that kind of discussion indeed....

[Windward]

Here is my response from the seki MC thread, with a little more elaboration....
....

Thanks for taking the time to post again here, really appreciate it!

Hope we can get a dedicated discussion going in this thread (probably starting only next year... )

And, honestly, glad you joined the forum recently and share your experience and knowledge! Really sounds like you´d have a lot of interesting "real world / real use" stuff so share!

Thanks warstein, you and many others have been an absolute wealth of information. Read a lot from here over the years, figured it was time i joined. It hasn't helped my knife buying habit, but ive enjoyed being here haha

[James Y]

I'm very interested to continue to read how Magnacut and LC200N compare to each other in use, as use of Magnacut in Spyderco folders continues to grow. Thanks, Windward, for sharing your experiences.

I don't own anything in Magnacut, but I do own two knives in LC200N; a PE Caribbean and a SE UKPK Salt. I like both of them a lot.

Jim

[ladybug93]

i really think very few of us have enough experience to really comment on this.
..

Thinking about it I am afraid you are very right and it is probably a bit early for that kind of discussion indeed....

in my limited experience over the years, all i can really say is that i prefer h1 with serrations to lc200n with serrations, as i've had my serrations roll on my caribbean, but not my se h1 knives. i like lc200n in pe, but i've never compared pe h1 to pe lc200n. as far as corrosion resistance goes, i've had a couple of small rust spots and some weird staining on my native salt, but nothing on my spydiechef or caribbean. h1 and lc200n have both been perfectly fine for me in salt water. my only magnacut so far is my mule. i like it a lot, but i only carry it on hikes where i have little ones to look out for, so it's seen limited use. i really need to get it out and use it more. i've also never experienced it in the water, since it's a fixed blade with micarta scales.

i've been carrying salt knives every day since i got my pacific salt in 2016, but even with my experience, the best i have is anecdotal evidence with a very small sample size. i suppose it helps to gain knowledge from a place like this, but it becomes real easy to pass the experience of others off as our own experience and knowledge. there's nothing wrong with that, until people start spreading all kinds of unearned wisdom and the masses just run with it. i see it all the time on youtube... you can tell sometimes that people have no idea what they're talking about and are just repeating what they've heard from others as if it's been their experience with this knife they just took out of the box for the first time.

okay... just ranting now. ladybug out.

[SaltyCaribbeanDfly]

I think it’s high time for an LC200N dragonfly.

[SaltyCaribbeanDfly]

Actually my favorite is H1/H2 serrated if I had to choose

[ladybug93]

I think it’s high time for an LC200N dragonfly.

i agree with this and will also add coated lc200n salts.

[Coastal]

....

Honest question: Is a "steeper" edge angle a lower one, as implied in the OP? I've always considered a "shallow" angle to be lower, for example: 30 degrees included is shallower than 40 degrees, which would be "steeper." In fact, a good mnemonic is that the word "shallower" includes the word "lower."

Oh man ... I am not a Native speaker in English, what I meant is of course that LC, being tougher, perhaps could take MORE ACUTE edge angels than MC.. will edit my op accordingly...

Your English is great. Can't imagine doing this in your language.

The reason I asked is that when I got into knives a few years ago, I saw that some of the terms are confusing or counterintuitive. What is a "high" grit versus a "low" one. Does it mean the grit is big, or the number is big? What is the difference between grit and "mesh?" To me, "reprofiling" sounded like changing the shape of the blade, not creating a more acute bevel angle, because the bevel has nothing to do with the blade's profile. I'm still not entirely sure what "behind the edge" thickness is. How far behind the edge? Therefore, does reprofiling decrease BTE, or increase it? And so on...