What knife steel and handle are best for cold weather high altitude hiking?

[VandymanG]

I went hiking Thursday morning to High Rock (Fire) Lookout. It was in the low 20’s Fahrenheit and it is above 5’000 feet which is considered high altitude. I had 3 knives with me - K294 mule, Delica 4 Super Blue/SUS410 and PM2 CPM CRUWEAR. All 3 knives showed noticeable dulling after the hike and I did not use them on the hike. And yes all 3 were razor sharp (freshly honed, stropped, and oiled) before the hike. The Delica 4 dulled the most, followed by the K294 mule, and then the CRUWEAR.

So this got me wondering what steels are best for high altitude cold weather hiking? In researching this subject I found very little satisfying info. The research also suggested that screws in folding knives were more prone to coming loose afterwards. So now I’m looking for suggestions or info on what knife would be best suited for high altitude cold weather hikes.

[aicolainen]

I’m confused by your observation. That’s neither very cold nor very high.

Not saying you’re wrong, maybe you’re more of an edge junkie than I am, but I’ve never made such observations.
High altitude or not, I’d still let the tasks and need for corrosion resistance dictate my choice of steel.

[Accutron]

That's a lower altitude than the Golden factory, and 20F is a mild winter in much of North America. There is no mechanism by which cold and altitude alone would affect the sharpness of your knives.

[ladybug93]

in any wet environment, i'll always recommend the salt series. even with lower edge retention than the "super" steels, these knives are still really dependable in outdoor environments and can easily be touched up with a small stone (or even sandpaper) in the field. i'd rather have a pe h2 pac salt than my 15v manix for multiple days in the woods (nothing at all wrong with the 15v manix... it's more about my comfort level with handling corrosion and sharpening in the field).

[skeeg11]

How did you test for dullness? Numb fingers maybe?

[VandymanG]

Not trying to get into a contest of who’s at a higher altitude or whose area is colder. Did research to try to figure out why the knives dulled on a hike that I didn’t have a use for them.

High altitude definition - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK5 ... 18000%20ft.) so high altitude starts at 4,900 feet. I tend to hike in areas ranging from 3,000 feet to 10,000 feet.

It was 12 to 8 degrees below freezing for the 4 hours I was on the hike. Ice was rock hard, snow was dry (unpack-able), ice and snow in direct sunlight was melting.

The K294 mule was strapped to my day pack. The Delica 4 was in a pack pocket. The PM2 was in a pocket organizer in my front pocket. It’s the first time I’ve tried hiking with Carbon steel knives instead of stainless. I started acquiring Carbon steel knives through the mules i bought and on my visit to Spyderco in Colorado this August where I bought the PM2 - CRUWEAR and the Delica 4 w/Super Blue core. If I carry a knife I will check the knife before I put it away. At minimum I always strop and oil the knives at the end of the day. So yeah I keep them sharp.

[VandymanG]

in any wet environment, i'll always recommend the salt series. even with lower edge retention than the "super" steels, these knives are still really dependable in outdoor environments and can easily be touched up with a small stone (or even sandpaper) in the field. i'd rather have a pe h2 pac salt than my 15v manix for multiple days in the woods (nothing at all wrong with the 15v manix... it's more about my comfort level with handling corrosion and sharpening in the field).

I agree with your observations. I think my wife is getting me a Bark River PSK EDC with Magnacut steel for my birthday which is a knife I crave to have for hiking. I also want to get a folder with LC200N. Right now I’m carrying predominately high carbon high alloy knives to see how they perform. I usually carry the AEB-L mule or a Damascus fix blade knife that gets dull if my wife even thinks about using it. She is legendary at dulling knives. For a folder I usually carry a PM2 CRUWEAR and a PM2 S45VN (but S45VN knife is falling out of favor with me. I have to sharpen it too often to keep it as sharp as I like.) and has been replaced by the Delica 4 w/super blue core.

[ladybug93]

in any wet environment, i'll always recommend the salt series. even with lower edge retention than the "super" steels, these knives are still really dependable in outdoor environments and can easily be touched up with a small stone (or even sandpaper) in the field. i'd rather have a pe h2 pac salt than my 15v manix for multiple days in the woods (nothing at all wrong with the 15v manix... it's more about my comfort level with handling corrosion and sharpening in the field).

I agree with your observations. I think my wife is getting me a Bark River PSK EDC with Magnacut steel for my birthday which is a knife I crave to have for hiking. I also want to get a folder with LC200N. Right now I’m carrying predominately high carbon high alloy knives to see how they perform. I usually carry the AEB-L mule or a Damascus fix blade knife that gets dull if my wife even thinks about using it. She is legendary at dulling knives. For a folder I usually carry a PM2 CRUWEAR and a PM2 S45VN (but S45VN knife is falling out of favor with me. I have to sharpen it too often to keep it as sharp as I like.) and has been replaced by the Delica 4 w/super blue core.

i don't have any experience with s45v, but i'm guess that you won't like any salt steels if you have to sharpen it more than you'd like to. i will say that lc200n and h1 (probably h2 as well, but i don't have any yet to say conclusively for myself) take an edge really easily with a ceramic rod.

if i were you, i'd probably get an h2 pacific salt se and wait for a magnacut manix or native chief to carry as well. i like lc200n a lot, but i prefer magnacut and i prefer the hollow grind and serrations on the h2 seki salts. others might make different suggestions, but the hollow grind is great for a more robust feeling outdoor blade, in my opinion.

[bdblue]

These days my hiking knife is a LW Tenacious. It is a good knife for my use, inexpensive enough that I could replace it if it was lost, and legal to carry in Colorado.

[WilliamMunny]

For what it’s worth I notice my S30V loses its bite while in storage, more so than my tool steals.

I notice my Maxamet always keeps a sharp edge but probably not the best for hiking/abuse. So I would try something high wear resistances with a little more toughness like 15V, K390 or 10V.

[zhyla]

I’m confused by your observation. That’s neither very cold nor very high.

I’ll say it. It didn’t happen. Steel does not care about slightly cold temperatures. It does not care about air pressure.

[Scandi Grind]

Steel is effected by temperature, I just don't know if it would be effected in that range of temperature or not. Not gonna feign any knowledge on the subject. If I were to make an uneducated guess, if there was a burr on the edge, then it got cold, then maybe it could dull the edge by effecting the burr, but if you didn't use it at all, then I don't know how the burr would have fractured off, so I'm mostly spit balling here.

[BornIn1500]

Not trying to get into a contest of who’s at a higher altitude or whose area is colder.

They're only making a comparison. If the knives are created just fine at an even higher altitude with a razor sharp edge, then why would your knives spontaneously dull when you take them up to that altitude again? It doesn't make sense. And many people take their knives with them in below freezing temps during winter and don't report any spontaneous dulling of the edge. So that also doesn't make sense. It wasn't a contest. People just want proof because it doesn't make sense.

[Bill1170]

I used to live at 8300 feet elevation in Colorado and worked outside in winter. I never saw any edge degradation in all that time except from use.

[Fireman]

Can of worms subject. Cold metal could have drawn the moisture out of the air like beads of water on a glass filled with ice. Use chapstick on the edges, you should have packed some anyway imho so no extra work there. Next time carry ziplock bags with nascent packets to reduce moisture on your tool steels. I live by the ocean so dulling due to oxidation is a real thing for my semi or non stainless knives. LC200N, H1/2, Vanax and magnacut should show significantly less oxidation dulling. Pro tip, wrap duct tape around your chapstick with a cotton ball or jute twine stuffed inside the cap for emergency fire starting. The chapstick and duct tape are excellent fuels and have many uses.

[Bolster]

Interesting report! I think a replication is in order. Carry on another hike, see if the same thing happens again.

I've taken several peaks here in southern Caly-fornia over 10K feet, always with a Spyderco, and have not noticed the effect, but they were not cold hikes, and neither did I do any before-after testing.

[VandymanG]

Please read the title of this thread. I’m looking for knife steels and handle material that is best suited for cold weather and high altitudes. I just posted the additional information to explain why.

Not sure how I’d prove any of what I stated since it was my own personal experience and observation. I can tell you I like to hone and strop the knives I’m going to carry for the next day and that I test the sharpness on thin voters manual paper from the most recent elections. I also do the same when I’m done using the knives for the day. So I noticed a difference. And I didn’t post info to argue or debate with trolls. Sorry I don’t do social media because of the people looking for reactions, I find it to be a waste of time. The Spyderco forum is as close to social media as I get and it’s the reason I test the knives the way I do.

It was just my personal experience from that hike that got me wondering. I found some limited info on how altitude, altitude changes, cold, moisture and some other factors could play into dulling knife steel. I even found a plea to Dr. Larrin Thomas to explain a similar situation but could not find a response. If someone has his response to the question can you post a link? When searching I also found some info about screws coming loose due to similar experiences. I did wonder if they did work on their own knives and did not use loctite but that info wasn’t provided.

So if you have a suggestion on knives and handles that are best for cold weather please let me know. Anything else in just not that interested in debating.

[VandymanG]

Can of worms subject. Cold metal could have drawn the moisture out of the air like beads of water on a glass filled with ice. Use chapstick on the edges, you should have packed some anyway imho so no extra work there. Next time carry ziplock bags with nascent packets to reduce moisture on your tool steels. I live by the ocean so dulling due to oxidation is a real thing for my semi or non stainless knives. LC200N, H1/2, Vanax and magnacut should show significantly less oxidation dulling. Pro tip, wrap duct tape around your chapstick with a cotton ball or jute twine stuffed inside the cap for emergency fire starting. The chapstick and duct tape are excellent fuels and have many uses.

Really cool information that I had no clue about. Thank you very much. I live near the Puget Sound (salt water) so your information is especially useful.

[VandymanG]

Interesting report! I think a replication is in order. Carry on another hike, see if the same thing happens again.

I've taken several peaks here in southern Caly-fornia over 10K feet, always with a Spyderco, and have not noticed the effect, but they were not cold hikes, and neither did I do any before-after testing.

lol, ok I was thinking about doing the same hike again anyways. But it’s going to take a week for me to do it again. That hike was steep, I’m no longer in good shape and my knees hate me currently. Will try to match similar weather also but the weather and temps are unpredictable in that area. The day I hiked up it was supposed to rain but it ended up being clear sky all day long.

I’ll do the usual slice test and push cut test that I always do before and after carrying a knife or 2 for the day. And I’ll oil them again using Frog Lube just like before. Full disclosure I always seem to forget the chapstick, sunscreen and sunglasses whenever I go on a hike.

[Danke]

I have spent a lot of time working in below freezing weather. I would look for a fixed blade with a wood or micarta handle.

Once it gets crazy cold the actual steel can become brittle but if you carry the knife inside your parka that will be less of an issue. As the temperature changes the metal can pick up condensation. For that a more stainless steel will be easier to maintain.