Forward to the past: Fallout preps are a thing again

[Bolster]

OK. I didn’t start this thread to argue, I wanted to see how others are preparing. (Haven't heard any of that yet.) But neither do I want other people reading this thread to get incorrect information, so in brief:

1) Recommend a read of science-based info on this topic, rather than prepper lore, or conventional wisdom. Kearny’s book is based on Oak Ridge National Laboratory research, and you can download it from the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine (https://www.oism.org/nwss/). That’s not exactly “prepper pipe dream” material. However, if you have valid, researched sources that say otherwise, please post them.

2) The radiological material in a nuclear power plant, and the radiological material in a nuke bomb, are apples and oranges in terms of decay rate. Bombs use a high energy, fast decay rate material. Most people are unaware of how quickly it dissipates.

3) Try not to arrive at binary conclusions, as ChrisinHove warns. This area is all about degrees, not absolutes. Also, attempt to not substitute conventional wisdom, old wives' tales, or fantasy movie depictions for actual data and evidence.

[Ankerson]

OK. I didn’t start this thread to argue, I wanted to see how others are preparing. (Haven't heard any of that yet.) But neither do I want other people reading this thread to get incorrect information, so in brief:

1) Recommend a read of science-based info on this topic, rather than prepper lore, or conventional wisdom. Kearny’s book is based on Oak Ridge National Laboratory research, and you can download it from the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine (https://www.oism.org/nwss/). That’s not exactly “prepper pipe dream” material. However, if you have valid, researched sources that say otherwise, please post them.

2) The radiological material in a nuclear power plant, and the radiological material in a nuke bomb, are apples and oranges in terms of decay rate. Bombs use a high energy, fast decay rate material. Most people are unaware of how quickly it dissipates.


3) Try not to arrive at binary conclusions, as ChrisinHove warns. This area is all about degrees, not absolutes. Also, attempt to not substitute conventional wisdom, old wives' tales, or fantasy movie depictions for actual data and evidence.

Sometimes, but not always, so don't count on it.

And yes that material was ment for civilians so take that for what you will there.

[Scandi Grind]

The only information I have about this topic come from a fairly old publication of The U.S. Armed Forces Survival Manual. I'll have to take a look at it again to see what it has.

[ChrisinHove]

Wouldn’t there be a completely enormous difference between radiation from air burst and ground burst detonations?

Which will the enemy choose? I.E Will this war be one of destruction, or territorial conquest?

This is why we all need sane & rational political leaders.

[Ankerson]

Wouldn’t there be a completely enormous difference between radiation from air burst and ground burst detonations?

Which will the enemy choose? I.E Will this war be one of destruction, or territorial conquest?

This is why we all need sane & rational political leaders.

ICBM's/etc are all going to be air bursts, normally at around 2000 FT for maximum yield.

[yablanowitz]

How about a little first-hand fallout anecdote? When I was at nulear power prototype training back in the 70s, China conducted an above ground nuclear weapon test. Radioactive material from that test reached the jet stream and was carried around the world. We were in Connecticut and had measureable levels of contamination for three weeks from that single blast. Not dangerous levels, but three to five times normal. We normaly monitored for contamination when leaving the powerplant containment, for those three weeks we were monitoring (and decontaminating) to keep people from tracking radioactive contamination into the containment.

Food for thought.

[Ankerson]

How about a little first-hand fallout anecdote? When I was at nulear power prototype training back in the 70s, China conducted an above ground nuclear weapon test. Radioactive material from that test reached the jet stream and was carried around the world. We were in Connecticut and had measureable levels of contamination for three weeks from that single blast. Not dangerous levels, but three to five times normal. We normaly monitored for contamination when leaving the powerplant containment, for those three weeks we were monitoring (and decontaminating) to keep people from tracking radioactive contamination into the containment.

Food for thought.

Yeah, now multiply that 10,000 +

There is a term Nuclear Winter for a reason.

[yablanowitz]

Wouldn’t there be a completely enormous difference between radiation from air burst and ground burst detonations?

Which will the enemy choose? I.E Will this war be one of destruction, or territorial conquest?

This is why we all need sane & rational political leaders.

Weapons controlled by governments don't worry me nearly as much as an extremist with a kilo of plutonium and a hundred kilos of Semtex.

[Ankerson]

Wouldn’t there be a completely enormous difference between radiation from air burst and ground burst detonations?

Which will the enemy choose? I.E Will this war be one of destruction, or territorial conquest?

This is why we all need sane & rational political leaders.

Weapons controlled by governments don't worry me nearly as much as an extremist with a kilo of plutonium and a hundred kilos of Semtex.

What about extremists with 10,000+ warheads ready to go anytime?

[Bolster]

A tip when choosing a geiger counter, many of which are available for modest prices. Check the highest reading it will do. Many of the models are intended for use in labs, to detect low-levels of radiation that could build up over months of time to dangerous levels. But for determining what areas are safer than others -- once a nuke has detonated -- or for determining when it's not deadly to come out of shelter, you'll want a counter that can read in the higher ranges. I went with a model that detects up to 200 mR/h, because (by my calcs) around 200 mR/h for the approx 2 weeks you'd want to mostly stay in shelter, would put you near a 70,000 mR dose, at which point you'd likely have some radiation sickness but would very likely recover. If the readings are above 200 mR/h, to me it indicates more shielding is an urgent requirement. Again, those are all my home-grown calcs and you'd want to do your own, balancing likelihood with effort with health impacts--just make sure you get a geiger that goes high enough to be helpful. If it doesn't read high enough, it'll be screaming that EVERYthing is extremely hot, and then won't help you determine which is the better choice among shelter options.

I'm not impressed with the NukAlert, though. Besides its price, its lowest detection is 100 mR/h, which means (again, by my calcs) over the two weeks you'd be sheltering, you could receive a Chernobyl-sized dose and the detector wouldn't even go off.

[Naperville]

The "public bomb shelters" that were in the USA and Canada were decommissioned when the USSR dissolved. Now the USA may be at DefCon 3. If they go to DefCon 2, many of the items discussed below will be impossible to obtain and even more impossible to implement in a timely manner.

US Civil Defense I believe was rolled into DHS and no funds have really been appropriated. The shelters in the buildings were taken over by the owners of the buildings and they are storage rooms now. There are no rooms full of gas masks and iodide pills waiting for your arrival. You are S.O.L. as far as that stuff goes, but there are basements in most large urban areas that are 1, 2 and 3 stories below ground level....although I'd try to stick to the 1st basement. If a detonation actually happens, they will never dig you out before you starve to death or die for lack of water.

But there are things that you can do if nuclear war is imminent. Read the Kearny book...you can get an old copy (1987 ed) for FREE on the Internet. There is a new version out, and there are books available on bomb shelters from Amazon. I have several new books, videos and many old books from Archive.org. You can build a fallout shelter of your own, and if you are not within 75 miles of a large city, nuclear plant, or military base I do not see why you would not survive nuclear war. Surviving the collapse of civilization is a whole nother story.

FREE BOOK!
https://www.oism.org/nwss/

If you are going to order ThyroSafe, now is the time to do it.

[Ankerson]

The "public bomb shelters" that were in the USA and Canada were decommissioned when the USSR dissolved. Now the USA may be at DefCon 3. If they go to DefCon 2, many of the items discussed below will be impossible to obtain and even more impossible to implement in a timely manner.

US Civil Defense I believe was rolled into DHS and no funds have really been appropriated. The shelters in the buildings were taken over by the owners of the buildings and they are storage rooms now. There are no rooms full of gas masks and iodide pills waiting for your arrival. You are S.O.L. as far as that stuff goes, but there are basements in most large urban areas that are 1, 2 and 3 stories below ground level....although I'd try to stick to the 1st basement. If a detonation actually happens, they will never dig you out before you starve to death or die for lack of water.

But there are things that you can do if nuclear war is imminent. Read the Kearny book...you can get an old copy (1987 ed) for FREE on the Internet. There is a new version out, and there are books available on bomb shelters from Amazon. I have several new books, videos and many old books from Archive.org. You can build a fallout shelter of your own, and if you are not within 75 miles of a large city, nuclear plant, or military base I do not see why you would not survive nuclear war. Surviving the collapse of civilization is a whole nother story.

FREE BOOK!
https://www.oism.org/nwss/

If you are going to order ThyroSafe, now is the time to do it.

Well, there are a lot of reasons why people wouldn't survive a nuclear war.

Nuclear Winter for one, and that is HUGE. If there are enough weapons deployed and nuclear winter happens it could last for decades. (That is something the so called preppers and survivalists just don't talk about.)

Think about the temps in Antarticia in the winter time, but with no power and for decades. NOBODY is ready and never really would be for that. And wouldn't have the time to be either.

Society would collapse to say the least. A good guess out of say 350 Million people in the US maybe 100 thousand might survive for a little while, maybe and I am being generous.

I am sure there might be some who will survive in the World. How many nobody really knows, all depends on how bad it all gets really.

Food would run out very fast, clean water, well ice that would have to be melted. Remember no power and EXTREMELY COLD temps of say -100F to -150F more than likely.

And if it does happen people will not have any time, maybe 15 to 30 mins to get someplace?

Would be the same if a super volcano went off or another large comet hits the planet.

[cabfrank]

I've read too much for comfort about nuclear war. I really hope our world leaders are smart enough to never make it happen.

[Ankerson]

I've read too much for comfort about nuclear war. I really hope our world leaders are smart enough to never make it happen.

I think it will happen eventually.

Like the saying goes.

"World War IV will be fought with sticks and rocks."

[yablanowitz]

Wouldn’t there be a completely enormous difference between radiation from air burst and ground burst detonations?

Which will the enemy choose? I.E Will this war be one of destruction, or territorial conquest?

This is why we all need sane & rational political leaders.

Weapons controlled by governments don't worry me nearly as much as an extremist with a kilo of plutonium and a hundred kilos of Semtex.

What about extremists with 10,000+ warheads ready to go anytime?

Well, I live a hundred miles from anything worth a bomb, so they don't really worry me much.

[cabfrank]

I don't mean to contradict, or alarm, but I'm pretty sure there are ICBM silos in your neck of the woods.

[cabfrank]

Ankerson, sadly, I think the odds are you're right. I'd prefer it happened long after I'm gone.

[Ankerson]

Ankerson, sadly, I think the odds are you're right. I'd prefer it happened long after I'm gone.

Well lets hope.

However humans have been killing each other forever, finding new and better ways to do it and will continue to do so.

So yeah it will happen, it's just a matter of time.

[ChrisinHove]

Ankerson, sadly, I think the odds are you're right. I'd prefer it happened long after I'm gone.

Well lets hope.

However humans have been killing each other forever, finding new and better ways to do it and will continue to do so.

So yeah it will happen, it's just a matter of time.

Naaah. AI will save us ….

[Ankerson]

Ankerson, sadly, I think the odds are you're right. I'd prefer it happened long after I'm gone.

Well lets hope.

However humans have been killing each other forever, finding new and better ways to do it and will continue to do so.

So yeah it will happen, it's just a matter of time.

Naaah. AI will save us ….