Linerless Chaparral LW and More Colors

[Doc Dan]

One of the things that makes the similar closed size Dragonfly FRN so great is that it is linerless and super light weight. It should be possible, and even desirable to make the Chaparral linerless and that light in weight. It would be the ultimate locking pocket knife and better than that other brand's small light weight knife.

Also, It would be nice to have colors of FRN scales to choose from. Red (there is no trainer), earth tone blue, red, orange, olive drab, coyote (!), and other colors would be just the thing.

Anyway, that's my 2¢ worth.

[aicolainen]

I wouldn't mind a Chaparral-esque linerless knife, but with beefier FRN scales to provide rigidity and without a stop pin it would be a very different knife. They would probably want to change the design a little, but hopefully not too much (maybe just tweak the blade shape a little) and give it a new name just to make it easily discernible from the OG Chap to avoid confusion.

[Wartstein]

Agree with aicolainen:

A linerless (FRN-) Chap would have to have significantly thicker scales in order to offer sufficient rigidity.

This would make for a no doubt very cool, but imo also rather different knife than the current Chap, which for me is (among other features) almost defined by its superthin carry, while still being super-rigid and solidly built (steel liners, steel backspacer, and of course steel lockbar).

The FRN Chap also is pretty light already for how undestructably its made: 2.1 oz, the same as an H1 Salt 2 (the ffg LC 200 N Salt 2 is lighter though).

This is NOT against a thicker handled, but even lighter linerless chap-ish knife!
Just would not be a "real " Chaparral anymore for me personally

[Flash]

I personally wouldn’t want an unlined one simply because the current lined FRN version does everything so well: Balance, weight, ergos, and how solid it feels for such a small light weight help make it a firm favourite of mine. It’s an underrated classic.

Plain one-colour G-10 would be nice though as would more steels, preferably ones more stainless than CTS-XHP. I carried/used it for 6 months during a British summer and it had visible (albeit small) rust spots by the end.

G10 and CPM magnacut on a super-low geometry chaparral…

[Matus]

I am pretty sure the smoothness would suffer if going linerless, And as was said already - the knife is light enough already and shaving some 10g more off would not really be all that noticeable IMO.

[elena86]

I wouldn’t sacrifice the rigidity and the internal stop pin but I would love more colors. My (not so) secret dream is intact though: a 2.75 incher Dragonfly 2.0 or just bring back the Calypso jr. I wouldn’t mind a Calypso jr. sprint in a stainless steel this time. Let’s say … SPY27. I really hope that Sal is on his drawing board designing the Dfly 2.0.

[aicolainen]

I am pretty sure the smoothness would suffer if going linerless, And as was said already - the knife is light enough already and shaving some 10g more off would not really be all that noticeable IMO.

Several things would suffer, that's why I in my first reply emphasized the need to differentiate it from the regular Chaparral.
In many ways it would be better to think about it as a Dragonfly XL, but preferably with the handle shape and blade stock of the Chaparral. If we could also adopt the choil size from the DF2, we would get even a little more edge than the Chap in a package that's barely longer than the Dragonfly 2.

Regarding the weight being noticable, that depends on perspective. One reason the DF2 is my most carried EDC and my Chap don't get the pocket time it deserves is in large part due to the weight difference. Most of the time I carry loose in the back pocket, hence the preference for small and light. The DF2 has just the right combination of footprint, thickness and weight to go largely unnoticed, while the Chap will bounce a bit more due to its weight.

If the Chap and the DF2 had a child that inherited the right features from both; handle-/blade length, blade stock and approx. handle shape from the Chap and linerless FRN handles, FRN backspacer and small choil from the DF2. It would be neither a Chap or a Dragonfly, but I think it would be a very interesting knife that could potentially have more edge than the chap while still weighing about the same as the DF2. And ready for a Salt version right out of the gate.

[Wartstein]

Well, at least the "more colors" - thing seems to be not impossible - I may quote Sal:

"I made the [Chaparral] FRN version because I felt there was a market for a less expensive utility version. This also offers opportunity for colors, exclusive variations and who knows what else. I'm currently testing a serrated version, which is performing well". (see here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80989&p=1613137#p1613132)

Inspired by this I actually started a thread some time ago, listing and discussing potential variants (serrated; wharnie; Salt; handle colors..) viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92165#p1614611

(... and then of course there still is one of my dream knives, the Chap XL.. .keeping handle and blade thickness (thinness...) exactly the same, also the height, just "stretched" to about Endela size... )

[Fly Fishing Rick]

I wouldn't change a single thing about the Chaparral FRN. It feels good in hand, is a good neutral color, and XHP is great.

[Wartstein]

I wouldn't change a single thing about the Chaparral FRN. It feels good in hand, is a good neutral color, and XHP is great.

True.
It´s perfect for what it is and for me probably the best iteration of what a functional but still strong very small do it all folding cutting tool should be (except it´s missing teeth... )

[Doc Dan]

Agree with aicolainen:

A linerless (FRN-) Chap would have to have significantly thicker scales in order to offer sufficient rigidity.

This would make for a no doubt very cool, but imo also rather different knife than the current Chap, which for me is (among other features) almost defined by its superthin carry, while still being super-rigid and solidly built (steel liners, steel backspacer, and of course steel lockbar).

The FRN Chap also is pretty light already for how undestructably its made: 2.1 oz, the same as an H1 Salt 2 (the ffg LC 200 N Salt 2 is lighter though).

This is NOT against a thicker handled, but even lighter linerless chap-ish knife!
Just would not be a "real " Chaparral anymore for me personally

Gernot, I don't think it would need to be thicker. It is very nearly the same thickness, with liners, as the linerless Dragonfly. Put the two up next to each other. They are almost the same size, the Chaparral being marginally larger. If they removed the liners and reinforced that space, like on the DF, we'd have a knife the same size and very rigid.

[Wartstein]

...

Gernot, I don't think it would need to be thicker. It is very nearly the same thickness, with liners, as the linerless Dragonfly. Put the two up next to each other. They are almost the same size, the Chaparral being marginally larger. If they removed the liners and reinforced that space, like on the DF, we'd have a knife the same size and very rigid.

Actually I almost can´t believe that an FRN knife as thin as the Chap would not get too flexy without liners... but I still do believe YOU, Doc! ... And I don´t have a DFly to compare anyway.

And yes, one of the cool things of the Chap is: Barely longer than a DFly, but offers a lot more blade and edge (handle to blade/edge ratio is significantly better in the Chap percentage wise than in the DFly).

[Sharp Guy]

I'm not sure if anyone caught elena86's comment about the internal stop pin but in the FRN Chap the outside of the liner acts as a stop



Personally, I don't see the need to make any changes to the FRN Chap. I like it just the way it is

[Mushroom]

Would this replace the current Chaparral LW? To me it wouldn’t make sense to have two Chaparral Lightweight models in the catalog at the same time. Unless the intention was to just make it part of the Salt Series but even then I still have my own hesitations with that.

How much weight would this actually save and is that amount of weight savings worth the investment required to re-design the knife? Would it be an integral FRN handle with solid FRN scales like the Dragonfly or use a skeletonized two piece design like the Salt 2? Or something else?

Removing the liners and steel backspacer would also change the overall balance of the knife. I’m not sure how much that matters in the grand scheme of things but theres a possibility that it could affect the knife negatively. Also, as pointed out by Elena86 and SharpGuy, the internal stop pin poses a design challenge that may require a small metal liner in that part of the knife regardless of how it’s redesigned.

In a way though, this would kind of live up to the original premise of the Chaparral series. It would be a completely different type of FRN handle from the current one. The current Chaparral LW showcased FRN scales with liners and a steel backspacer. This proposed new Chaparral LW would do away with those showcase something like an integral FRN handle or skeletonized two piece FRN handle.

[Tristan_david2001]

The chap is a weird size for me, but it’s more closer to the 3” blade range of knives like the delica and Caly than it is the dragonfly. I like the knife but it feels like I either want a larger or a smaller knife for use than what the size of the chap is.

[Sharp Guy]

Would this replace the current Chaparral LW?

Unless it's marked something else in the catalogs there is no Chaparral LW. Is called the "Chaparral FRN"

https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C152GY/1095

EDIT: nevermind I see they refer to it as the Chaparral Lightweight in the text

[Doc Dan]

This would showcase a new handle design and Spyderco ingenuity. I think they might do something like they did with the Manix 2 LW, where there is a little piece of metal to support the lock, but no actual liners. Of course, it might be possible to do away with that, even.

[Wartstein]

Would this replace the current Chaparral LW?....

....

In a way though, this would kind of live up to the original premise of the Chaparral series. It would be a completely different type of FRN handle from the current one. The current Chaparral LW showcased FRN scales with liners and a steel backspacer. This proposed new Chaparral LW would do away with those showcase something like an integral FRN handle or skeletonized two piece FRN handle.

I actually would hate to see he current Chap "LW" get replaced!
(LW in quotes, cause, as said, yes it is pretty light (same weight as an H1 Salt 2, lighter than Delica, Para 3 LW, Native LW, ...) but really not built like a typical lightweight and probably even rather "heavy" for its 3 D footprint)

To me personally that rigid, bombproof, "heavy" in a good way feel in hand while still wielding a real slicing machine is what my Chap is all about.
And weightwise? Well, it was my running knife for quite a while, and 2.1 oz in a superslim package is really not bad carried iwb.

But, I love your and probably also Docs approach of making another version that actually would stay in line with the "original premise of the Chaparral series" and offered a linerless, even lighter handle!

Perhaps it could be made in FRCP, (yes, Doc, then also regarding this like the Manix 2 LW - though I don´t know if they´d do FRCP in Taichung?) so it would really be another material too (so we´d have a Chap FRN lightweight and a Chap FRCP REALLY lightweight... )

And you are right of course: This would make it easier to do a Salt version too.

[ChrisinHove]

I’m wondering whether the mooted Chap Slipjoint might suffice?

[Wartstein]

I'm not sure if anyone caught elena86's comment about the internal stop pin but in the FRN Chap the outside of the liner acts as a stop

....

Personally, I don't see the need to make any changes to the FRN Chap. I like it just the way it is

- True, that completely bladeplay free lockup is another defining feature of the Chap for me and would most likely not be the same without that stop pin...

- Also true: PLEASE no changes to the already existing FRN Chap (except perhaps more color and steel options (though I personally don´t need that I think the Chap would get a popularity boost if it came in a more rustproof steel too)
... but I would not be opposed to another, new version (while keeping the FRN Chap in the lineup)

- And I hope we´ll see the serrated Chap Sal said he´d be testing already soon... though I am a bit worried, since Spyderco seems to move a bit away from serrations again.