I'm Going All In: Spyder Edge and K390

[RustyIron]

I only had one Spydie Edge, a Police 4 in K390. The steel is among the best, and the Spydie Edge is clearly superior for many uses. The downside of the SE is when cooking and when doing precise, delicate work. I need a plain edge for those things.

The question is what is best MOST of the time, and which edge is the worst when the other is called for. The only way to know for sure is to start carrying a SE knife. Although the P4 is a very useful design, I really don't want to carry something that big all the time, so I've never done the experiment.

The discontinuation of some of the K390 SE models has rekindled my curiosity. Sometimes I would like a small knife to carry, so maybe I should get the Delica. The Endura is really the Goldilocks-sized knife, so maybe I should get that. Or with the recent discounted prices, maybe I should get BOTH. Most of you can probably guess what my final decision was.

The mail man delivered the last one today, so here's my K390 SE lineup. The Delica actually seems to be a reasonable sized knife. I thought it was going to be unlikeably small. I didn't care for the black clip, so I cleaned it up and installed it on the correct side. I never cared for the clip on the Police, so I cleaned that one up as well. I also swapped them because I wanted to. I only took the Endura out of the box to take this photo, then I put it back. If it turns out that I HATE carrying a SE everyday, I'll just sell the Endura.

Anyway, my plan is to just carry Spydie Edges exclusively for a while and see how it goes. The exception is when I'm going out to do real work where a plain edge is more sensible. I'm not yet ready to carry two knives.

[ChrisinHove]

Good stuff. I’m also interested to hear in what size blade you find the SE most useful.

[Brock O Lee]

Subscribed...

I bought a serrated K390 Police and Endura during the sale, among the other wharncliffes...

[Wartstein]

.... and the Spydie Edge is clearly superior for many uses. The downside of the SE is when cooking and when doing precise, delicate work. I need a plain edge for those things.

The question is what is best MOST of the time, and which edge is the worst when the other is called for. The only way to know for sure is to start carrying a SE knife. ......

/
Anyway, my plan is to just carry Spydie Edges exclusively for a while and see how it goes. The exception is when I'm going out to do real work where a plain edge is more sensible. I'm not yet ready to carry two knives.

Hey Rusty, very cool plan and I am really looking forward to your "results"!!

Let me (admittedly an "SE guy" for quite some time now) utter some thoughts though:

- If you want to find out which edge type works better overall: Why then do you exclude SE from some tasks in the first place (cooking, "pecise, delicate work")?

- And what do you mean by that you´ll carry PE "when you are going to do real work where a plain edge is more sensible" ?! (So again excluding SE from some (which?) tasks in the first place?)

- Wouldn´t it be better to really try SE in ANY task in order to form a real, solid opinion and do a fair test and comparison?

In my case it was like this: Got my Endela SE (great serration pattern on an ffg blade) and really did NOT expect much. So I was NOT biased towards SE at all, rather the opposite.

But by using the Endela SE in any occuring task it turned out that SE works better for me personally almost any time.

This includes cooking / food prep with folders. Not denying that in dedicated kitchen knives Chefs, Pros and ambitious amateurs go with very sharp, acute-angled fixed blades almost all of the times.
But with folders for me the steep chisel grind of SE, and the "points" of the teeth that puncture and "break" surfaces so well (tomatoes, bread) while keeping the actual edge in the scallops away from a cutting board an by that sharp, work clearly better for food prep.

[ladybug93]

i typically carry two knives; one in se and one in pe. admittedly, i use the pe more, but that is more because i prefer it in use and would like to preserve my se for times it's needed, like an emergency. however, if i can only carry one knife, it's going to be se. i'd rather be more ready for the emergency use and make uglier cuts in the few instances where se is less ideal.

looking forward to seeing where you land.

[Manixguy@1994]

I keep looking at a big SE myself and look forward to your observations. I’m torn between the Police and Pacific and may just get both . Dan

[standy99]

I found the SE is more useful for EDC in the wharncliffe blade. You can still do the cuts a PE would be needed to do in a pinch.

And the Delica was the favourite size.

Nothing I really couldn’t cut with a SE

[Doc Dan]

It is my understanding that a SE cuts better for most people after it has been sharpened enough times that the tips start getting a little rounded. I don't know.

[benben]

Pretty sure a SE K390 Leafjumper will be my next purchase….

Can’t wait to hear your thoughts / impressions after a couple of weeks.

[RustyIron]

If you want to find out which edge type works better overall: Why then do you exclude SE from some tasks in the first place (cooking, "pecise, delicate work")?

My prejudice against serrated edges are conclusions from past experience. Perhaps I'm wrong, but in my head, a chisel ground serrated edge tends to pull to one side, making it difficult to cut precise sizes. If you want your carrots, celery, and tomatoes to be precise in thickness and angle, it's hard to achieve with serrations. Last week I was using my P4 to slice some very delicate fish. It worked fine through the flesh, but tended to pull when I got to the skin. The worst thing about serrations for cooking is the number it does on my cutting boards.

And what do you mean by that you´ll carry PE "when you are going to do real work where a plain edge is more sensible" ?!

Two days ago I was on a mountaintop and needed some shims. The best material I had was an aluminum can. My plain edge Spydie sliced through the can and I was able to carve out the desired shapes. That wouldn't have been as easy with a serrated edge. Sometimes I use a knife to strip wires--sometimes huge wires, sometimes wires you can barely see. A serrated edge would nick the conductors and my fingers. Both would be undesirable. Sometimes I might want to shave down a metallic or plastic surface, or chamfer the edge on similar material. The plain edge is the better tool for the job.

On the flip side, yesterday I was sitting in the yard sipping coffee. A coupe shoots from a bush were disrupting the Feng shui, so I whipped out my Spydie Edge and made quick work of them. It was the best tool for the job--unless I was to walk to the shed and get the clippers. But then I wouldn't have been able to use my knife.

[RustyIron]

i typically carry two knives; one in se and one in pe.

I can see how that would solve some problems, but I'm quite ready for that yet. I'd sooner carry two knives than carry a multiple-bladed knife or a combo-edge.

[RustyIron]

It is my understanding that a SE cuts better for most people after it has been sharpened enough times that the tips start getting a little rounded. I don't know.

One of the things I do is cut old shirts into rags for use in the garage. My plain edge Police 4 is GREAT for that. The Police 4 with the serrated edge was awful. It would snag and tear and wasn't convenient at all. After a while, it snags less and is usable for cutting fabric. I'm assuming this is the result of the sharp points becoming rounded.

That experience made me wonder of the suitability of serrated edges in a self-defense role. If serrated edges snag on clothing, they might not be good for self-defense. My only real-life experience in stabbing and slashing people is on myself when being stupid and not paying attention. If Mike J. is reading this, I'd like to hear his thoughts.

[ladybug93]

i typically carry two knives; one in se and one in pe.

I can see how that would solve some problems, but I'm quite ready for that yet. I'd sooner carry two knives than carry a multiple-bladed knife or a combo-edge.

i know you went a different direction with k390, but try a se salt knife in your waistband. my pac salt disappears, but a salt 2 would be even better if you find an endura-sized knife to be uncomfortable. you can test it with your k390 models to see how it feels. having a se salt model allows me to be ready with se for emergency use, but also means i always have a knife on me if i end up working out or swimming. i like the extra functionality and lack of overlap.

[pippi]

I use spyder edge cooking. So your tomatoes are ragged and your cheese has furrows. So what. I'm not going to pack two knives, and the serrated is nice to have.

[Brock O Lee]

...try a se salt knife in your waistband.

Good call! I am going to give it a go... Salt 2 WC with Lynch NW deep carry clip.

A UKPK SE Salt might even work better.

[Doc Dan]

It is my understanding that a SE cuts better for most people after it has been sharpened enough times that the tips start getting a little rounded. I don't know.

One of the things I do is cut old shirts into rags for use in the garage. My plain edge Police 4 is GREAT for that. The Police 4 with the serrated edge was awful. It would snag and tear and wasn't convenient at all. After a while, it snags less and is usable for cutting fabric. I'm assuming this is the result of the sharp points becoming rounded.

That experience made me wonder of the suitability of serrated edges in a self-defense role. If serrated edges snag on clothing, they might not be good for self-defense. My only real-life experience in stabbing and slashing people is on myself when being stupid and not paying attention. If Mike J. is reading this, I'd like to hear his thoughts.

I don't remember who said it (Lynn Thompson?) but someone in the knife community said that SE can snag in clothing and not cut as deeply as a PE sometimes.

Cutting up rags is not one of the SE's strong suits, to be sure. They work great for food, wood, rope, etc., but clothing cutting into rags is a no. I have had that experience and it was a real workout.

[Wartstein]

...

...
That experience made me wonder of the suitability of serrated edges in a self-defense role. If serrated edges snag on clothing, they might not be good for self-defense. My only real-life experience in stabbing and slashing people is on myself when being stupid and not paying attention. If Mike J. is reading this, I'd like to hear his thoughts.
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I don't remember who said it (Lynn Thompson?) but someone in the knife community said that SE can snag in clothing and not cut as deeply as a PE sometimes.

Cutting up rags is not one of the SE's strong suits, to be sure. They work great for food, wood, rope, etc., but clothing cutting into rags is a no. I have had that experience and it was a real workout.

Don´t quote me on it, but I seem to recall Michael Janich saying something along that lines too in some reply here on this very forum.

And despite being really into SE, I can see this to be true (to be clear: I have no clue of sd with knives when it comes to practical training). I think when it comes to slashing motions against (attackers in) clothing, the "points" of a serrated edge just have to have a much higher probability to snag and get hang up than a properly sharpened (or even not so sharp) plain edge.

Win for PE in this case, as far as I am able to judge it!

/ Cutting up rags: I did this several times with SE (and PE), can´t recall exactly though how it went though. Will definitely have to try and compare again!!

I would have thought that the rag will get "caught" in just one of the scallops, and if that is sharp and due to its steep edge angle would get cut pretty well by just that one scallop.

But of course I believe Rustys results (PE better than SE) since he actually compared, still will try it out myself out of interest.

[Wartstein]

If you want to find out which edge type works better overall: Why then do you exclude SE from some tasks in the first place (cooking, "pecise, delicate work")?

My prejudice against serrated edges are conclusions from past experience. Perhaps I'm wrong, but in my head, a chisel ground serrated edge tends to pull to one side, making it difficult to cut precise sizes. If you want your carrots, celery, and tomatoes to be precise in thickness and angle, it's hard to achieve with serrations. Last week I was using my P4 to slice some very delicate fish. It worked fine through the flesh, but tended to pull when I got to the skin. The worst thing about serrations for cooking is the number it does on my cutting boards.

And what do you mean by that you´ll carry PE "when you are going to do real work where a plain edge is more sensible" ?!

Two days ago I was on a mountaintop and needed some shims. The best material I had was an aluminum can. My plain edge Spydie sliced through the can and I was able to carve out the desired shapes. That wouldn't have been as easy with a serrated edge. Sometimes I use a knife to strip wires--sometimes huge wires, sometimes wires you can barely see. A serrated edge would nick the conductors and my fingers. Both would be undesirable. Sometimes I might want to shave down a metallic or plastic surface, or chamfer the edge on similar material. The plain edge is the better tool for the job.

On the flip side, yesterday I was sitting in the yard sipping coffee. A coupe shoots from a bush were disrupting the Feng shui, so I whipped out my Spydie Edge and made quick work of them. It was the best tool for the job--unless I was to walk to the shed and get the clippers. But then I wouldn't have been able to use my knife.

Thanks for the reply and detailed explanation!

- Cooking:

I guess my standards are not that high when it comes to the precise size of food I cut, and so I might never have noticed that SE is not as good as PE in that regard in the kitchen.

Also, what I found to be a "pro" in my use - that the "points" of SE hit the cutting board and by that completely protect the edge inside the scallops - of course can also be a "con", due to the higher damage on the board! Never thought of this.

Still, I´d really appreciate it if perhaps you could do one "cooking session" with an SE edge vs a PE edge (vegetables and so on) and report back your conclusions? (And let me repeat: There must be a reason that Chefs use PE knives most of the times, and I am sure those are better than SE, when both edge types come in the same, steep edge angle and are properly sharpened. Just in do it all EDC folders I came to prefer SE even in the kitchen)


Making shims, whittling....:

- I think for cutting shims out of a thin aluminium can I personally would prefer SE: One of the very sharp, steep angled scallops alone should do the job very well - ?

- I have very little experience when it comes to stripping wire, so can´t really weigh in. I would have thought though that the rounded inside of a scallop could actually work very well for that, but of course believe your real life experience!

- Yes, shaving down a plastic surface in a precise way clearly works better with PE also in my experience! (Sometimes one can use the PE part towards the tip of an SE blade for that, but of course PE all the way is always better than).
Where SE shines in my experience though: "Roughly" whittling away matter (no nice, flat surface needed), like when making a pointy stick or the like. The chisel grind bites into wood so well!

[RustyIron]

I guess my standards are not that high when it comes to the precise size of food I cut

To be fair, a folding pocket knife is rarely the right tool for the job in the kitchen. Look at all the kitchen knives for sale. The smallest among them would be considered giant if it was a pocket folder. The exception for me is when I cut up cauliflower florets into the size of about my thumbnail. My pocket knife is the bomb for that.

Bread knives are serrated, as you know. I've experimented cutting bread with a super-sharp plain edge knife. The resulting surface of the bread is super smooth, like glass. A serrated blade, even a super sharp one, leaves a rougher texture on the face of the bread. I think the latter is more desirable.

I need to head down to the garage in a couple minutes and slice some sheets of Scotchbrite into short strips. A plain edge is GREAT for this. A serrated edge will chew it up into strings. But really, even a super duper K390 plain edge will get dull in the first few cuts. But it NEEDS to be cut.

[Wartstein]

I guess my standards are not that high when it comes to the precise size of food I cut

To be fair, a folding pocket knife is rarely the right tool for the job in the kitchen. Look at all the kitchen knives for sale. The smallest among them would be considered giant if it was a pocket folder. The exception for me is when I cut up cauliflower florets into the size of about my thumbnail. My pocket knife is the bomb for that.

Bread knives are serrated, as you know. I've experimented cutting bread with a super-sharp plain edge knife. The resulting surface of the bread is super smooth, like glass. A serrated blade, even a super sharp one, leaves a rougher texture on the face of the bread. I think the latter is more desirable.

I need to head down to the garage in a couple minutes and slice some sheets of Scotchbrite into short strips. A plain edge is GREAT for this. A serrated edge will chew it up into strings. But really, even a super duper K390 plain edge will get dull in the first few cuts. But it NEEDS to be cut.

Thanks, good points!

I think you must be a lot more experienced and have higher standards than me when it comes to "knife work" in the kitchen. For my very basic cooking my serrated Spydies do very well (for do it all folders!) in the kitchen, but I believe you that if I´d be more precise and into making more "professionally prepared meals" PE most likely is the better choice!