Are We Witnessing The Death Knell of K390 In Production Folders?

[ramblinwreck]

K390 will always have a special place in my heart.

[ekastanis]

What is the issue here ? There's still some unremoved sharpie line, so you mean you had difficulties sharpening the outer edges of the serrations ? Asking this as a sharpening noob.

I was reprofiling my serrated edge, the removed sharpie above the edge bevel is not the issue but if you look closely I hadn’t made it to the apex yet.

A little more information would help understand better what you are alluding to here. What were you trying to accomplish exactly? Do you feel that 2000 strokes was excessive or are you simply saying that number would have been astronomically higher using K390??? If you are using K390 for the same sharpening then it would simply be best to use diamond to cut with.

Yes, I feel that reprofiling any serrated edge using a sharpmaker takes a long time, and if it takes that long with LC200N, then I wouldn’t want to attempt it with K390. I have experience rough grinding PE K390 with both coarse SiC and diamond abrasive, and I don’t believe diamond/CBN sharpmaker rods would make it much faster. So what I was alluding to is that I would prefer easier-to-grind steels for a serrated edge, since SE sharpening options are more limited than PE.

[Cl1ff]

Reprofiling serrations isn’t the easiest, especially with something like k390.
However, that’s a better argument for them to be ground thinner from the factory than it is against high hardness serrated edges in general, in my opinion.

[Araignee]

I was reprofiling my serrated edge, the removed sharpie above the edge bevel is not the issue but if you look closely I hadn’t made it to the apex yet.

I imagine it is harder with K390 rather than LC200N, however I don't think reprofiling serrated edges is that common amongst SE knives buyers.

So the matter to ponder, when considering the impact on sales, should be whether performing normal edge maintenance (touch ups, not thorough reprofiling) is that much of a pain on K390 steel - enough to deter would-be or confirmed buyers.

[wrdwrght]

Based on what is Spyderco’s offering of K390 coming to an end?

Has Sal or Eric actually said so? Or has 15V been inferred by us to be a K390 killer? Or what?

[Cl1ff]

I think the actual root of of the problem with a potential lack of sales or interest when it comes to things like k390, wharncliffes, and serrations, is a general lack of understanding among knife users.

The market for these things, in non-premium knives, is already mostly going to be limited to being used more like tools than a lot of other knife models. No matter the kind of person (collector/fidgeter/user/pocket decorater/etc.), the intention in buying Spyderco’s SpyderEdge K390 Wharncliffe is almost exclusively as a tool.

I think there’s a lot of people that just don’t know serrations enough to see them as a viable option for them as tools, or K390, or wharncliffes, etc.
For every person that has an informed preference for stainless over non-stainless, plain-edge over serrated edge, or drop point over wharncliffe, there are more that are choosing the latter because they simply aren’t familiar with the former or have some misconceptions.

I do still think they all remain popular enough to have a solid place in the lineup and market.

It’s just that somewhat “redundant” versions of models seem to be what gets reduced to make room for new stuff, which is okay (even if I really enjoy the redundant stuff).

[Doc Dan]

K390 will be with us for a long time. Spyderco invested a lot of money in testing and turning out a few knives to see what we all thought, and then making it one of the main offerings. This steel is better than anything out there of which I am aware and certainly my favorite non-stainless steel. I don't know how these rumors get started, but it is just that, a rumor, until we hear it from Sal. The attributes of this steel are so good I cannot fathom it going away anytime in the next two decades.

[ekastanis]

I imagine it is harder with K390 rather than LC200N, however I don't think reprofiling serrated edges is that common amongst SE knives buyers.

So the matter to ponder, when considering the impact on sales, should be whether performing normal edge maintenance (touch ups, not thorough reprofiling) is that much of a pain on K390 steel - enough to deter would-be or confirmed buyers.

There's no problem to touch up K390 on the Sharpmaker even with the brown rods, if the edge bevel angle is such that you can hit the apex. I've purchased three PE K390 knives (Police 4, Stretch 2, Leafjumper) where I couldn't hit the apex using the 20 degree slots unless I tilted the blade away from the rod, so I reprofiled them. No problem since they were PE. Fortunately both my Pac Salt SE came with edge bevels <20 deg and I hadn't done any damage to the serrations that required repair, so reprofiling this one was elective.

Even though I really like it, I don't think choosing K390 blade steel is that common among knife buyers in general regardless of edge type. Among aficionados, I don't think wanting, or even just being confident to be able, to reprofile or fix up an SE edge is all too rare, though I could be wrong. I also didn't mean to imply that reprofiling was a consideration in Spyderco's choice to discontinue SE K390 models, just that it's a consideration of mine whether to purchase them.

[RustyIron]

What could be the reasons that Spyderco would stop using K390?
1. Material isn't regularly available
2. Insufficient profit from K390 knives.
3. Insufficient sales of K390 knives.

K390 is a joy to sharpen, and its performance is astounding. I already have those that I want. If there is a discontinued K390 knife that anyone wants, there's been plenty of warning and the prices are discounted. It seem like a Golden opportunity. "Golden" opportunity? See what I did there?

[Hopsbreath]

What could be the reasons that Spyderco would stop using K390?
1. Material isn't regularly available
2. Insufficient profit from K390 knives.
3. Insufficient sales of K390 knives.

K390 is a joy to sharpen, and its performance is astounding. I already have those that I want. If there is a discontinued K390 knife that anyone wants, there's been plenty of warning and the prices are discounted. It seem like a Golden opportunity. "Golden" opportunity? See what I did there?

I just realized the only discontinued k390 knife I didn’t have was the SE Endura. So I fixed that problem! Give it a few years and we’ll be hearing requests for sprints.

[Brock O Lee]

I think the actual root of of the problem with a potential lack of sales or interest when it comes to things like k390, wharncliffes, and serrations, is a general lack of understanding among knife users.

I think you hit the nail on the head Cliff... The wharnies also look odd in my opinion. Spydercos in general already have a reputation among the non-Spydie fans for being "weird" and odd-looking. I can just imagine how much less likely they are to make inroads into the market.

Give it a few years and we’ll be hearing requests for sprints.

I suspect you are right...

I bought a serrated Endura and Police, knowing full well they will be a bear to reprofile should I choose to go down that rabbit hole in future. For now I am content to keep the factory bevels.

For the wharnies, I bought backups for my backups.

[PaloArt]

Hopefully there will be no dawn of K390 anytime soon as it is absolutely fantastic blade steel. My Manbug in K390 is my constant companion and true EDC (even in my pyjamas shirt pocket ).

[Traditional.Sharpening]

K390 will be with us for a long time. Spyderco invested a lot of money in testing and turning out a few knives to see what we all thought, and then making it one of the main offerings. This steel is better than anything out there of which I am aware and certainly my favorite non-stainless steel. I don't know how these rumors get started, but it is just that, a rumor, until we hear it from Sal. The attributes of this steel are so good I cannot fathom it going away anytime in the next two decades.

As noted earlier by an end-user, there is no 'better' or 'best' steel in general. This depends entirely on the parameters of how the knife will be used and the users philosophy on sharpening. Sharpening, with all the vanadium carbide of K390, can easily make this steel one of the most painful to grind steels for end users and manufacturers alike. This fact alone is arguably enough to complete eliminate the steel from the running to many people, myself included.

I have little interest in steels which are very demanding in the abrasives they require as I prefer to use ceramic/silicon carbide abrasives in general and I feel that the carbide volume of this class of steel tends to be unnecessary for my uses. I will simply sharpen a knife after it's lost front end sharpness and would have zero reason not to just quickly sharpen the knife with a microbevel to bring it back to high sharpness. For me cutting ability and safety during use are paramount.

To put it plainly, this class of steel only makes sense when you are not concerned with high cutting ability through acute geometry AND you intend to keep using the knife to VERY low levels of sharpness and/or simply cannot or will not sharpen the knife for long periods of time. From my perspective, I could easily make an argument that this type of steel would actually be the worst kind of steel for my application for the above reasons. Again, parameters are needed to actually be better.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

**double tap**

[apollo]

One should differentiate between what is perceived as general sales.
K390 has never been a big thing in production folders, even less so than M4. Basically spyderco is the only company that uses it on a regular basis...
Not even lionsteel who knows the steel uses it except for sprint like runs.
Plus for the majority of people s35vn is still a top steel.
I would dare say as much that sales percentage wise nobody cares about it.

But yeah in regard to the discontinued list I think it is rather the combination of a rare steel with uncommon and not big sales producing blade shapes.

To reply to the thing you said about s35vn.
In the end i still find s30v Spyderco's best steel.
In my collection i have Rex-45 , 15v , 10v, s110v , cts 204 p , s90v , and a bunch of others.
And eventough they are all amazing and shine in there own way . I find s30v to be the steel that is great in every way if used by Spyderco that is. For example in my daily use i do not find my 15v Shaman really better then my s30v one. Sure it stays sharp a bit longer but in the end its not that big of a deal to sharpen a knife. I even enjoy doing that.

Steels are fun to collect but further then that well the difference between them is so tiny i do not see the big fuzz about them.
I also find this forums hypes in that way so funny.
Day one everybody is screaming there love for 15v a steel that is not great in rust resistance. The next day they are screaming there love for Magnacut because oh boy it can handle rust. And if tomorrow decides to make a knife in yet another steel they will hype for that as if its the best.
Because in the end they are not hyping for those steels they are hyping because spyderco made something new....
And if spyderco started to make new models again people would be hyped for the models not the steel they are made in.

Now that i think off it. Spyderco kinda uses those exotic steels to have an excuse not to make many new models anymore.
Because slap some .... steel on a native LW or a pm2 and all off the forum members go wild and trow our wallets at them anyway...
We need to stop this steel addiction fast so we can finally get some new models!!!

[electro-static]

I’m just curious as to what people are thinking. There is some still available, but there has been considerable retrenching.

I think it’s just the serrated and wharnie models period. The wharnie LC200N salts also got discontinued.

Serrated models even in H1 have great edge retention, coild be that making them out of a steel like K390 offers little advantage.

[Guts]

Yeah like others mentioned, it was just the wharnie and serrated K390 models that got discontinued. They did release a few new models in K390 last couple reveals too. I'm hoping they get some K390 for the Golden or Taichung models personally. I'd love a Manix LW and a Sage 5 LW in K390.

[Doc Dan]

A Manix 2 LW in K390 would be interesting.

One thing I like about this steel is that it isn't as difficult to sharpen as a lot of other steels, stainless or carbon. It isn't like sharpening 1095 or anything, but it doesn't take a frustrating amount of time, either.

Combined with the M2LW I think this would be a winner, especially with translucent scales.


On another note, I know you are all proud of me for not seeing the discontinued list and concluding Spyderco was going to stop making knives.

[Bolster]

..For every person that has an informed preference for stainless over non-stainless, plain-edge over serrated edge, or drop point over wharncliffe, there are more that are choosing the latter because they simply aren’t familiar with the former or have some misconceptions...

The recent survey with respondents from Spyderco and BF shed some light on two of the three above. Among enthusiasts, the preference for stainless is fairly evenly distributed across the range (see orange bars). If it were a binary question you'd have roughly half preferring stainless and the other half not. Serrated, on the other hand, even among afis, is not the preferred edge. Most enthusiasts reported 0-10% of their collection having serrated edges (green bars). You'd not suspect this by the frequent calls for more serrated edges on this forum, but the purchase of serrated knives is reportedly infrequent, even amongst the enthusiasts. With a distribution like this, you can see why Spyderco might pull back on SE for the sake of sales. I didn't ask any questions about blade shapes; wish I had.

[apollo]

I would like to try k390. But since its only made in frn models I really do not want to spend my money on it. If they would (depending on the model) put it in a more expensive g10 version i would find it so attractive compared to now. I feel I really am struggling with spyderco’s tactic’s as of late.
The combo of cheap feeling frn with high performance steel really kills my appetite for more spydies.
Before someone gets upset I know frn isn’t cheap but the feeling in my hand will always scream plastic to me and will never give me a high quality feeling.
And that is why i want spydies namely for that high quality feeling they give me…