Anyone want to see Vanax in the salt series?

[RamZar]

In a prior thread I too had mentioned to Larrin a corrosion resistance test of just the super corrosion resistant steels: Vanax, H-2, LC200N, N680, etc. Hopefully, it’ll happen one day.

The issue with Vanax continues to be cost.

My most common stainless steel is actually M390/20CV/204P which balances Corrosion Resistance and Edge Retention very well in small folders. I’m eager to try M398 due to superior edge retention with very good corrosion resistance.

I do have extreme corrosion resistance knives in X15TN, N680, H-1, LC200N, MagnaCut and Vanax as well as an all metal titanium dive knife.

[Deadboxhero]

I think it's just wrong that Spyderco, the leader in steels for knives, is not producing a vanax salt series. I would like to design a knife and have them evaluate it for production. If a guy from California can take to market a vanax folding knife, Spyderco can do it better and cheaper, for sure.

I wouldn't consider Chad Kelly Just "a guy from California."

Don't let his casualness and humble demeanor fool you, he is one of top the knife experts in the world with many years experience as a highly skilled custom knife maker, outdoors expert, and custom small batch heat treating specialist.

He has a very highly detail oriented mind combined with excellent hand-eye coordination and intelligence that allows him to execute details better than many.

He used to be a race car driver so a lot of his talents are focused on high performance and his knives are no exception.


I first learned about Vanax from Chad, He was basically the first to get it and it became one of his signature steels.

He did a lot of testing with the material.

Well I can't speak fully for Spyderco it's not that they don't want to make a knife out of Vanax, It's just the price per pound of the material is very expensive.

Also,it's not a matter of Bohler Uddeholm wanting to price gouge, It's just that Vanax uses a very,very exotic and expensive process to get more nitrogen in the material than is possible with the conventional methods (diffusion alloying) which factors into the extreme cost.

One problem for keeping motivation for Vanax is that MagnaCut has come and it has surprised the industry with its level of corrosion resistance. Not to mentioned MagnaCut can be run at higher hardnesses than Vanax and Lc200N which are stuck around ~60rc due to high Cr in solution. MagnaCut also has very fine carbonitrides without needing diffusion alloying which shows the brilliance of its design by Dr Larrin.

MagnaCut is also significantly cheaper than Vanax.

Maybe Chad will stop by and share his opinions and testing between Vanax and MagnaCut with his experience.

[RamZar]

I think it's just wrong that Spyderco, the leader in steels for knives, is not producing a vanax salt series. I would like to design a knife and have them evaluate it for production. If a guy from California can take to market a vanax folding knife, Spyderco can do it better and cheaper, for sure.

Do you mean Quiet Carry of Costa Mesa, California with their saltwater knives in steels like Vanax, LC200N and MagnaCut? I have one of their Drift folders in Vanax where attention is given to make ALL components stand up to saltwater. You’re only as strong as your weakest link.

[RustyIron]

I wouldn't consider Chad Kelly Just "a guy from California."

I'm just a guy from California. And while I don't own a race car, I sometimes drive my truck over the speed limit.

Last week I was hacking away at what was to become my dinner using one of Chad's knives. Although I've had the knife for a while, I noticed a particular characteristic that I had previously overlooked. I guess that's a feature of real art: there are many different layers that don't immediately reveal themselves.

Anyway, as I was slicing through an onion, I noticed that the knife produced a particular tone. It wasn't quite as melodic as a well-tuned glockenspiel, but it was a ringing nevertheless. I tapped the blade with my finger to reproduce the sound. I was intrigued, and immediately tried the same thing with all the other knives within reach. None produced anything more than a dull thud. Why does this knife sing? Artful creation? Shape? Material?

It's really cool, and using the knife now makes me feel a bit like Beatrix Kiddo... if Uma Thurman was a gray-haired man with a more rounded shape and five o'clock shadow. I don't, however, hold any animosity toward the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad, so my knife will only get used on vegetables and pre-butchered animal parts. Now I want all my knives to sing.

[chronovore]

Sure! Even if it is just a sprint run or something, it would be cool to see. I have knives in LC200N and MagnaCut but not Vanax and it would be fun to fill the gap with a Spydie.

A Wharncliffe Dragonfly in Vanax (or MagnaCut) would be the bee's knees!

[JoviAl]

I wouldn't consider Chad Kelly Just "a guy from California."

I'm just a guy from California. And while I don't own a race car, I sometimes drive my truck over the speed limit.

Last week I was hacking away at what was to become my dinner using one of Chad's knives. Although I've had the knife for a while, I noticed a particular characteristic that I had previously overlooked. I guess that's a feature of real art: there are many different layers that don't immediately reveal themselves.

Anyway, as I was slicing through an onion, I noticed that the knife produced a particular tone. It wasn't quite as melodic as a well-tuned glockenspiel, but it was a ringing nevertheless. I tapped the blade with my finger to reproduce the sound. I was intrigued, and immediately tried the same thing with all the other knives within reach. None produced anything more than a dull thud. Why does this knife sing? Artful creation? Shape? Material?

It's really cool, and using the knife now makes me feel a bit like Beatrix Kiddo... if Uma Thurman was a gray-haired man with a more rounded shape and five o'clock shadow. I don't, however, hold any animosity toward the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad, so my knife will only get used on vegetables and pre-butchered animal parts. Now I want all my knives to sing.

If Chad ever publishes a book on his knives I feel this would make the perfect preface.

[sailhand]

Love to see vanax in the dragonfly with a nice thin grind. I'd settle for magnacut but vanax would be better for Saltwater environments. The dragonfly is a very popular knife and could do with an upgrade from h1 even to Lc200n. I have two new catcherman in lc200n and it is a fantastic knife, had to get a spare in case I lost one. Great fillet and all round fishing knife. I live on a boat in Queensland Australia and it's been my go to knife since it landed. I fish every single day rain hail or shine if I'm not sailing and I have been dreaming about thin slicey spydercos like this for years. Super thin blade stock is absolutely fantastic! My congratulations to Sal and the team on that one. Please please please more super thin and slicey bladestock. I think a dragonfly even lighter with thinner blade stock or a uk penknife/calypso with the same super thin lightweight bladestock would be a winner. In order my steel preference would be vanax, magnacut or Lc200n. The catcherman in Lc200n is fantastic get one if you still can you won't regret it. I have one of lances waterways as well and I've beaten it to death for years, great design lance. Cheers

[phaust]

Love to see vanax in the dragonfly with a nice thin grind. I'd settle for magnacut but vanax would be better for Saltwater environments. The dragonfly is a very popular knife and could do with an upgrade from h1 even to Lc200n. I have two new catcherman in lc200n and it is a fantastic knife, had to get a spare in case I lost one. Great fillet and all round fishing knife. I live on a boat in Queensland Australia and it's been my go to knife since it landed. I fish every single day rain hail or shine if I'm not sailing and I have been dreaming about thin slicey spydercos like this for years. Super thin blade stock is absolutely fantastic! My congratulations to Sal and the team on that one. Please please please more super thin and slicey bladestock. I think a dragonfly even lighter with thinner blade stock or a uk penknife/calypso with the same super thin lightweight bladestock would be a winner. In order my steel preference would be vanax, magnacut or Lc200n. The catcherman in Lc200n is fantastic get one if you still can you won't regret it. I have one of lances waterways as well and I've beaten it to death for years, great design lance. Cheers

The Dragonfly would be an awesome choice. I'd buy a bunch of them (already have 3 H1 Dragonflies ).

That's another nice thing about the other brand using Vanax mentioned here. They put out thin blade stock. Thin Vanax is great all around.

[olywa]

Absolutely gorgeous. I don´t understand why there aren´t production fillet knives in rust proof steels. Vanax, understandably, would probably be pricey, but I´d still buy one.

But now that we´re chatting... I was watching Larrin in a Buck knives promotion where he is being interviewed by Zack (formerly of BladeHQ) where he was asked about the favorites of each class of knife steel. Larrin talks about the fine grain structure of Sandvik 14C28N as not just a tough steel but because of the fine grain structure excellent for razors in that it gets really sharp.

So that gets to my question, does vanax have that kind of grain structure, does vanax get as sharp as 14C28N? That kind of sharpness is ideal for filleting fish, removing the skin, etc.

In effect, I am researching for the ideal fish fillet knife steel.

Vanax has a fine nitride distribution, but the matrix structure is different from 14c28N.

When it comes to finding the steel you think is best for fillet knives there is a lot to consider. In the end I believe you will establish a strong opinion but never actually establish a clear-cut "best". My best suggestion is to check into what reputable fillet knife makers have to say about the subject. Phil Wilson (as just one excellent example)has done a lot of very in-depth work in this regard and he has his favorites based on his testing. Phil likes N690 (plus others) and points out that ductility is an important consideration in fillet knife performance. http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/bladesteel.html

Vanax is effectively corrosion proof with good toughness and good wear resistance.
14c28N is corrosion resistant with good toughness and low wear resistance.

I would say neither of them is a perfect fillet knife steel. If I personally was looking to choose which steel is "best" for a fillet knife, I would consider sharpening characteristics, ductility and wear resistance all to be more important than corrosion resistance. I should add, I have not tried to make such a decision. I have made fillet knives in Vanax, CPM20CV, AEB-L and S35VN. All of them have been great performing knives. Out of those 4, you might be surprised to hear I think boring S35VN is the best all-around choice for a fillet knife.

Best,
CK

Well you enabled me to pick up a new fillet knife in S35. I just ordered a White River 6" Pro Fillet. I have a couple of their S35 knives already and have been eyeballing their fillet knives. I needed a small fillet knife for trout and panfish and this one looks like a dandy.

Of course it didn't hurt that every knife I've picked up from White River is exceptional on all fronts.