Spyderco liner locks

[ImHereForTheMilitary2]

Some cheapo knives out there that have liner locks so bad I wouldnt trust them to lock open strong enough to whittle a match stick. Because of this I have developed a deep distrust for liner locks and by proxy frame locks. I have never handled a spyderco liner lock or even seen one, but I feel like my trust in spyderco could exceed my distrust of frame and liner locks. Can anyone substantiate that? How strong are spyderco liner locks?

And yes I know hard stabbing with a folder is a stupid idea with any folder but there are times when it must be done in an emergency as we all know

[cjk]

Spyderco liner locks are really excellent. They're as good as liner locks get. They will probably impress you compared to what you're familiar with. My experience is with a Sage 1 and two Militaries. I don't have any of the Spyderco liner locks which are made in China, but I'd expect them to be excellent as well.

However, I'd consider Spyderco's compression lock to be superior, so if you're considering an item with one of those, I'd probably choose that.

[ImHereForTheMilitary2]

Spyderco liner locks are really excellent. They're as good as liner locks get. They will probably impress you compared to what you're familiar with. My experience is with a Sage 1 and two Militaries. I don't have any of the Spyderco liner locks which are made in China, but I'd expect them to be excellent as well.

However, I'd consider Spyderco's compression lock to be superior, so if you're considering an item with one of those, I'd probably choose that.

Yeah, I already have a few compression locks and I am very impressed with it. I also like the spyderco back lock which feels exceptionally strong and confident as well as a ball bearing lock. Love them all. Thank you for y our advice, thats great to know and the reason I asked is I felt like I needed a military 1 in my collection and I was curious. The only thing that stopped me was the liner lock.

Has lock strength already been covered in this forum yet? is there a chart or something that shows the locks ranked weakest to strongest?

[cjk]

Spyderco liner locks are really excellent. They're as good as liner locks get. They will probably impress you compared to what you're familiar with. My experience is with a Sage 1 and two Militaries. I don't have any of the Spyderco liner locks which are made in China, but I'd expect them to be excellent as well.

However, I'd consider Spyderco's compression lock to be superior, so if you're considering an item with one of those, I'd probably choose that.

Yeah, I already have a few compression locks and I am very impressed with it. I also like the spyderco back lock which feels exceptionally strong and confident as well as a ball bearing lock. Love them all. Thank you for y our advice, thats great to know and the reason I asked is I felt like I needed a military 1 in my collection and I was curious. The only thing that stopped me was the liner lock.

Has lock strength already been covered in this forum yet? is there a chart or something that shows the locks ranked weakest to strongest?

I have the same qualms about liner locks but also wanted a Millie for my collection. They're actually GREAT.

I am not aware of a chart. I'm sure lock strength has been discussed on here somewhere. The best way to search the forum is using google with "site:forum.spyderco.com" added to the end of your search string rather than the search box above.
Lock strength is always going to be implementation dependent.
There's a bladehq youtube video from years ago where they "test" lock strength. I'm not so sure how valuable that is in the real world, but it's entertaining.

[olditguy]

I have a couple Militaries and one Tenacious and both locks are excellent! Especially the Military. But I also agree, I tend to shy away from most liner locks and have very few frame locks, but of course they are very popular. AND thanks for the search tip. Just tested and I love it!

[vivi]

Liner locks are probably my least favorite lock type besides frame locks, but two of my fsvorite Spyderco folders happen to have them: Military 1 & Resilience.

Both of them have worked great for me for years without any issues.

Looking forward to picking up the Military 2 for the comp lock and tip up carry, but haven't ever had a Military 1 lock fail and I've carried them since the 2000's.

[James Y]

My favorite liner lock knife is the Spyderco Military. I own 4 of them, the first being a 440V model, up to S30V and S110V. The locks on all of them are still perfect. It's the only liner lock design I trust. That said, I'm certain that if I ever get a Military 2 someday, I'll like it better than the Military 1, because I like the comp lock more than the liner lock.

IMO, along with other factors (quality and treatment of the steel used for the liner, etc.), Spyderco really got the geometry of the lock face mating surface perfectly. The gentle concave mating surface allows the lock to gradually wear in over time, with less likelihood of lock slip. Not saying it's impossible, just that it lessens the likelihood of a catastrophic failure.

I've had liner locks from another famous brand that specializes in liner locks develop lock slip in a short time, with minimal use. The blade tang mating surfaces on those knives were ground at too steep of an angle, which caused premature wear of the (titanium) locking liner, and easy lock slip.

Jim

[ladybug93]

i have four liner lock spydies... chicago, astute, tenacious, and resilience. the astute, tenacious, and resilience are all great. the chicago is fine too, but it is not made to the same quality as the other three and i have cut myself with it. that was mostly my fault, but flawed fit and finish did play a role. i'd say most of spyderco's budget line liner locks are definitely good to go and better than a lot of other manufacturers.

[Cycletroll]

What Vivi said
I've much the same experience. Carried a Military on duty as a firefighter for 10+ years without any issues. (I did switch to a CE Endura for the last 10 years of my career for the stronger tip and some serrated edge for cutting rope, webbing, and hose jacket)

[aicolainen]

Wasn’t there a YouTube video by some Russians testing a military?

As far as I remember it held up to ridiculous abuse. Maybe Wartstein will chime in, he’s our master librarian, referencing any old thread or post right off the cuff.

[James Y]

Wasn’t there a YouTube video by some Russians testing a military?

As far as I remember it held up to ridiculous abuse. Maybe Wartstein will chime in, he’s our master librarian, referencing any old thread or post right off the cuff.

I saw that video a few years back. I recall some people saying that it was a knockoff version of the Military, but I don’t know if it was or not. It did hold up to a surprising amount of abuse.

Jim

[Spyderwebs]

Their testing method has many flaws, but it still gives you an idea of where the various locks rank. Worth a watch.
https://youtu.be/ERxHUXAFVs4

Rated in Lbs of pull force before failure -
Liner - 47
Frame - 87
Comp - 109
CBBL - 230
Bolt - 354
Backlock - Lock did not fail - the pivot hole sheared off the blade so the lock is stronger than the blade in this example.

I hate both Liner and Frame locks, and this video adds fuel to my fire of dislike. Too bad they are used on some models I am otherwise very interested in like the Chef, Schempp Bowie, and Pasayan.

[Wartstein]

....
Backlock - Lock did not fail - the pivot hole sheared off the blade so the lock is stronger than the blade in this example.

I hate both Liner and Frame locks, and this video adds fuel to my fire of dislike. Too bad they are used on some models I am otherwise very interested in like the Chef, Schempp Bowie, and Pasayan.

- I love backlocks, actually my favorite locktype and very strong imo indeed

Still, this test IS flawed indeed when it comes to the backlock:
The wire noose is actually blocking the lockbar from moving, so the lock could not open / fail, but the blade had to break. Not a real test for LOCK strength...

- I totally respect that you "hate" liner and frame locks (I personally prefer both clearly over the comp.lock), but if it is for the reason of being "to weak" I can´t follow you. Perhaps you are judging from the already mentioned cheapo linerlocks, but a Spyderco linerlock will easily take anything you could ever throw on a folding knife.

[Wartstein]

Some cheapo knives out there that have liner locks so bad I wouldnt trust them to lock open strong enough to whittle a match stick. Because of this I have developed a deep distrust for liner locks and by proxy frame locks. I have never handled a spyderco liner lock or even seen one, but I feel like my trust in spyderco could exceed my distrust of frame and liner locks. Can anyone substantiate that? How strong are spyderco liner locks?

And yes I know hard stabbing with a folder is a stupid idea with any folder but there are times when it must be done in an emergency as we all know

Reading your post I think you should be now "here fortheMilitaryONE" ...

Great linerlock, I never, ever read that it failed on anyone (still might have happened of course and I am just unaware).
Also, in my use, and I beat on my folders quite a bit: Both Millie and Tenacious linerlock have always been strong and reliable, also when doing "hard stabbing"

To me personally a good linerlock is actually "the better comp.lock". Easier, safer and more natural in operation, knife stays more natural in hand, and better ergos in harder use (comp.lock cutout can get a hot spot then). Rather subjective of course, the milage of many here varies

You obviously like your Millie 2, I´d really try a Millie 1 now too!

[ImHereForTheMilitary2]

First thanx to you all, you have all given me a great deal to think about. Thx to spyderwebs for the great video. Apparently there are 2 parts of the video, I will post the other below if you didnt happen to see it.

Next, I thoroughly expected to get flamed for my hatred of liner/frame locks. Its good to know that my concerns are shared by pros like you all and that Im not paranoid or anything. It was refreshing to see that so truly thank you for that.

Finally, thanks to everything that was said, I now feel comfortable getting a Spyderco liner lock model down the road. Not in the near future, there are other models I want to get first, like the salt and the native 5 SE and a few others. But the point is I will make a liner lock exception for spyderco because of their great quality.

So again thnx to all of you for your input as always and thanks for putting up with me and my many stupid question

https://youtu.be/4KmHfbG7z7g

[Wartstein]

....

So again thnx to all of you for your input as always and thanks for putting up with me and my many stupid question

https://youtu.be/4KmHfbG7z7g

Not a stupid question at all...

What´s "stupid" in my eyes - and the vid you shared shows this again - is when people think a Spyderco linerlock could be "to weak" and cause of THAT shy away from getting a Spyderco linerlock knife (in the vid the lock "maxed out", so can at least hold 380 lbs...).
(When some people don´t like linerlocks for OTHER reasons that´s completely fine and to respect of course!)

Show me the person and the task who will ever even come remotely close to such forces in any thinkable folder use..

Now if one like me prefers a Spyderco linerlock over a comp.lock for certain reasons, it would be completely nonsensical to still take a comp.lock cause is is even stronger.
To give an analogy: This would be like as if I needed a new mountaineering pack that should be able to take loads up to lets say 80 pounds.
Now there is a pack that can take up to 300 pounds and one that can 400 pounds.
The "300 pounds pack" is more comfortable and convenient to carry and I like it more by design.
I would be pretty silly if I still took the 400 pound pack 'just because it is technically stronger, right?

[Spyderwebs]

Still, this test IS flawed indeed when it comes to the backlock:
The wire noose is actually blocking the lockbar from moving, so the lock could not open / fail, but the blade had to break. Not a real test for LOCK strength...

- I totally respect that you "hate" liner and frame locks (I personally prefer both clearly over the comp.lock), but if it is for the reason of being "to weak" I can´t follow you. Perhaps you are judging from the already mentioned cheapo linerlocks, but a Spyderco linerlock will easily take anything you could ever throw on a folding knife.

I didnt even notice that, but yes, it was impossible for the backlock to open since they were holding the lockbar down with the cable! Id be interested to see how it stacks up in a fair test with the lockbar free. I would think it would still be one of the strongest because of the heft of the lockbar and the nearly perpendicular pressure angle

And I do not fear liner or frame locks being weak - 99% of blade load is in the opening direction, so I assume a liner/frame lock doesnt see much force in 99.99% of situations. And spyderco knows how to make a lock. If it sucked they wouldnt do it id like to think.

I dislike them primarily because you have to put your hand in the blade path to close, and secondarily they are more difficult to use blind. I can easily use Back/Comp/CBBL without looking at them. Liner/Frame is a little more dicey since your hand is facing the business end of the blade and requires a hand reposition with the blade half closed. Last, as much as knife fidgeting has been maligned lately, its the least fidgety lock type, and fidgetability is a trait I like in knives. (favorites being the PM2 and latest Ayoob - both buttery smooth action and just fun to use)

[cabfrank]

All of Spydercos locks are plenty strong enough. Some of their most stout are MBC rated, for those that need that extra. Their liner locks are the best I've tried. Even the budget models are good. More importantly, yes, you should have a Military in your collection, so you can compare it to your inevitable Military 2.

[Matus]

I have used a few Spyderco liner locks and frame locks (honestly, it is basically the same lock) and I really love what they can do. Brouwer, Tuff, Schempp Bowie, GB1, GB2, really all super well made.

[Sharp Guy]

I have several versions of most of the different locks that Spyderco's used (except PowerLock) and never had an issue or reason to not trust any of them

Off the top of my head, liner locks I have are Sage 1 (two versions), Positron, Gayle Bradley (2), Gayle Bradley 2, Firefly, Military, and I had a Persistance. I'm pretty sure I missed one or two. I also have several frame locks too. No issues with any of them

I've always thought the lock strength tests were kind of stupid. I haven't looked at one for awhile but aren't they testing the locks by applying downward force on the spine and forcing the lock to give up? If so, it seems kind of backwards to me