Fake PM2 Tanto

[HolySteel]

I should have known better. After making my ebay payment I looked at the seller's history, and found two additional PM2 Tantos sold as authentic. This one was sold as a 'Factory Second', which was ridiculous, as it doesn't have the notch.

So it arrived today, and thought other might benefit from the 'Return Request' photos I sent to ebay:

[Sharp Guy]

Likely not a second if there's no notch but I'm not so sure all the other details are actually indicators that the knife in question is a fake. You don't see too many fakes of exclusive models. Plus we've seen some authentic knives get in the wild that made it through QC that shouldn't have. How's the action? Does it feel like the authentic knife?

If I really wanted to keep it I think I'd send it to Spyderco to verify

[HolySteel]

Likely not a second if there's no notch but I'm not so sure all the other details are actually indicators that the knife in question is a fake. You don't see too many fakes of exclusive models. Plus we've seen some authentic knives get in the wild that made it through QC that shouldn't have. How's the action? Does it feel like the authentic knife?

If I really wanted to keep it I think I'd send it to Spyderco to verify

There's also the box with no barcode, and the '.' rather than ',' after 'Golden'. And the seller sold two other Tantos as authentic, with BINs under $200. I suspect he bought a pile of them from AliExpress at <$40 and is now reaping his profits - at $100-150 profit per knife, he can afford to take the occasional return without arguing.

[Sharp Guy]

Likely not a second if there's no notch but I'm not so sure all the other details are actually indicators that the knife in question is a fake. You don't see too many fakes of exclusive models. Plus we've seen some authentic knives get in the wild that made it through QC that shouldn't have. How's the action? Does it feel like the authentic knife?

If I really wanted to keep it I think I'd send it to Spyderco to verify

There's also the box with no barcode, and the '.' rather than ',' after 'Golden'. And the seller sold two other Tantos as authentic, with BINs under $200. I suspect he bought a pile of them from AliExpress at <$40 and is now reaping his profits - at $100-150 profit per knife, he can afford to take the occasional return without arguing.

We've seen real factory boxes that different than the usual. Regardless, I don't disagree with sending it back. Your call for sure but you didn't answer my question. How's the action? Did it feel even remotely close to the real deal? I ask because the couple AliExpress fakes I've had opportunity to handle looked pretty close (unitl you know what you're looking at) but the actions and feel were nothing like the real thing. The telltale signs were also aligned with the typical fake PM2s and had none of the signs you were showing

[HolySteel]

Likely not a second if there's no notch but I'm not so sure all the other details are actually indicators that the knife in question is a fake. You don't see too many fakes of exclusive models. Plus we've seen some authentic knives get in the wild that made it through QC that shouldn't have. How's the action? Does it feel like the authentic knife?

If I really wanted to keep it I think I'd send it to Spyderco to verify

There's also the box with no barcode, and the '.' rather than ',' after 'Golden'. And the seller sold two other Tantos as authentic, with BINs under $200. I suspect he bought a pile of them from AliExpress at <$40 and is now reaping his profits - at $100-150 profit per knife, he can afford to take the occasional return without arguing.

We've seen real factory boxes that different than the usual. Regardless, I don't disagree with sending it back. Your call for sure but you didn't answer my question. How's the action? Did it feel even remotely close to the real deal? I ask because the couple AliExpress fakes I've had opportunity to handle looked pretty close (unitl you know what you're looking at) but the actions and feel were nothing like the real thing. The telltale signs were also aligned with the typical fake PM2s and had none of the signs you were showing

Well, no one else in this forum seems at all interested in this, so it's just you and me :) The "telltale signs" I described are exactly what others have described when comparing AliExpress clones to authentic PM2's, so I'm really curious what "telltale" signs you have seen in the fakes that you had the opportunity to handle.

Show me some pictures. Thanks.

As far as action - the action was good, but on PM2's action varies greatly. I've had new ones out of the box that had horrible action, and others that were great. So a fake that falls inbetween doesn't tell me much.

[Sharp Guy]

I've had at least 10 PM2s. I think I'm currently at 9. All have had great actions. I might've had to adjust the pivot a tiny bit on one or two but they were great after that.

A few months before I joined this forum a well meaning friend sent me one of the Ali fakes. He thought it was really close to a real Spyderco until he handled a real one. Night and day difference in the actions. I never carried or used the fake knife. I'm not even sure what I did with it. It's sad but it was my introduction to Spyderco knives. I know it's been the same for other members of this forum. About the same time another friend pointed the Spyderco Forum out to me and sent me some real Spyderco models to check out that I ended up buying. Soon after I went to a big knife shop near me and handled a real PM2 and I blown away by how different they feel. It was then that I really got hooked on Spyderco knives and have examples of most of the models that have been in the catalog since then.

Off the top of my head, known differences besides the action feeling really sluggish. 1) The most well known one is the clip side liner is missing the big cut out in the clip side liner. 2) Sal and Eric's makers marks are in different locations. I believe Sal's was farther away from the Spydie hole and Eric's was closer to the pivot. 3) The outer edges of the scales had more radius on the fakes. The real ones have much less radius. I remember you could really see the difference when you looked at the stop pin screws. 4) The cutout in the scale for the lock access has a lot smoother transition (radius) into the sides. The fake one has sharp corners. 5) The G10 felt smoother on the fake one too. 6) The lock bar tabs were different. I don't remember how. Just that there was a pretty major difference. 7) the bug logo was higher on the clip (closer to the bend) than the real one. And yeah, pivot screw used a different size torque bit and the lettering on the blade was different. I don't remember how they were different off the top of my head. I believe the font was a little different but don't remember for sure

I don't have pictures. Dig back in this thread several years and you'll find them. A guy in one of the Facebook groups made a cheat sheet a few years ago that pointed out most of the differences I described above. The video below was in my bookmarks. I assume it's one of the ones I watched early on. You point out lettering differences above but I've seen people point out slightly different lettering locations on authentic Spydcerco knives on this forum in the past. The font looks correct on your suspected fake and not like it does on the fakes

https://youtu.be/9_3c1CtXA70

I only watched the first few minutes of that vid. He mentions the jimping is different but I remember that the fake I had the jimping was basically the same as my first real PM2. People have also pointed out differences in jimping on authentic PM2s on here before. So you can't always go by the jimping

I was at a gun show here in TX a couple years ago and one of the knife dealers had several fake PM2s on the table. They were all as described above and I knew what they were as soon as I picked one up. The guy acted offended when I told him he was selling fakes. He knew what he had lol

I haven't watched any of the new videos on fakes in several years and I'm not really interested in doing so. I thought the fake PM2s were no longer available on AliExpress. I'm sure they're still coming in from somewhere and maybe they've changed IDK

[HolySteel]

Perhaps all the differences I showed and mentioned are just an anomaly of this particular knife, but the other eight or so PM2s that I currently own, are all alike in all the details I described. This one is noticeably different. Spyderco's quality control is not so lacksadaisical that a knife would go out with this many differences from their normal model. I've never owned a PM2 Tanto, but it's hard to believe that they changed all those thing for the particular run - c'mon, a different pivot screw? changing the logos and repositioning them, turning one at a different angle from normal? Perhaps I give them more credit than you.

I have only owned one other AliExpress clone - it was a ZT. The action was about the same as my real ZT. But, like this one, the details were noticeably different. And the box had no barcode. I contacted the seller, he checked all the other knives he had received in trade, and they were all clones in his opinion: Benchmade, Spyderco, ZT. I had never seen a Spyderco box with blank ends before, but perhaps Spyderco sends out Seconds in them? and also forgets to put the notch on the blades for such knives?

I've watched plenty of videos showing differences between the clones and the real ones - in some instances the guy doing the video actually bought his $25 version of a $300 knife directly from AliExpress, so there were no doubts. The action was pretty great on most of them, and that was mentioned in the video.

Are all the clones made out of the same shop in China? I don't know. Is their clone quality control so great that every knife they put out has the same exact sluggish action you describe? Obviously not, as shown in the videos I've watched.

The fonts on the two knives I showed are NOT exactly the same;e.g-has Spyderco put out knives with Golden.Colorado before? I don't own any and have never seen one. The logos on the two blades are also not the same - they are close, very close, but wouldn't you expect a decent effort on a fake knife that you're trying to fake out Spyderco collectors with (such as yourself)?

In any case, I just presented this to help out - the seller has already accepted my return, so this isn't something I'm doing as an effort to solicit a defense of my case. But I think I've done all of you a disservice, as the only response indicates that Spyderco's quality control is all over the board and any knife marked Spyderco, regardless of the details, is authentic as long as it has good action. That's scary.

[HolySteel]

Pivot and frame screws are the same. That would be a first I believe.

[HolySteel]

Double gold washers instead of single bronze:

[Sharp Guy]

I apologize but I haven't taken the time to read everything you wrote since my last post. I promise I will later. In the meantime, I had previously said I found it hard to believe that there were Chinese clones of the PM2 Tanto and I still believe that. I did a few web searches and I can't find a thing about PM2 clones. It doesn't mean it isn't a thing but again, I still haven't seen an actual counterfeit of a Spyderco Sprint or Exclusive ever. Every one I've seen are regular production models. Maybe there are some I'm not aware of or maybe this is a first IDK but based on what you've posted I'm still not sure what you had was actually a counterfeit. That's why it would've been good to send it Spyderco and let them confirm authenticity

Look, I didn't want to start a debate about this. I really only wanted to point out what I knew about PM2 fakes and give you some more things to look for. If you had reason to think what you had wasn't authentic it was probably best that you returned it for a refund

Take care

[HolySteel]

I apologize but I haven't taken the time to read everything you wrote since my last post. I promise I will later. In the meantime, I had previously said I found it hard to believe that there were Chinese clones of the PM2 Tanto and I still believe that. I did a few web searches and I can't find a thing about PM2 clones. It doesn't mean it isn't a thing but again, I still haven't seen an actual counterfeit of a Spyderco Sprint or Exclusive ever. Every one I've seen are regular production models. Maybe there are some I'm not aware of or maybe this is a first IDK but based on what you've posted I'm still not sure what you had was actually a counterfeit. That's why it would've been good to send it Spyderco and let them confirm authenticity

Look, I didn't want to start a debate about this. I really only wanted to point out what I knew about PM2 fakes and give you some more things to look for. If you had reason to think what you had wasn't authentic it was probably best that you returned it for a refund

Take care

The G10 Tanto was popular, which is all the Chinese needed as incentive to create clones. I don't know how you do searches, but the examples on the internet are prolific. You seem like you really believe what you are saying, but I'm starting to wonder who you are.

In any event, I'm sure others who are knowledgeable are reading these posts, and I'm getting zero support, so I'm done here.

[Sharp Guy]

I use Google. I've had a PC since I was in college in the 80s. I'm more tech savvy that a lot of people much younger than me and most people my age. I can find all kinds of stuff on Spyderco counterfeits, including posts from this forum but nothing on PM2 Tantos. You haven't been on the forum long but I assume you already know this....there's been a ton of really popular sprints and exclusives. Those Tantos weren't nearly as popular as some. Why haven't they made a clone of the Crucarta Shaman? There was a lot of crying over that one. Or a PM2 Rex 45. That should be easy enough to fake. The grind on the Tantos would be more difficult for them to fake and get right. Wouldn't you think? That's the big red flag for me. The Chinese can't get the grind right on the Southard fakes but they can do a Tanto perfectly? How about a pic of the whole blade?

Apparently, you still have the knife. Did you look at any of the details I posted and compare with the knife in question. That could confirm suspicion that it's actually a fake? Did you check the the clip side liner to see if it has the second-large cutout in the middle. If not that could explain why the suspect one is heavier than the other one. Which reminds me, I forgot a big sign of authenticity. Does the knife in question have the notch in the middle of the show side liner? Unless something's change recently a real one should. The fakes do not



I've been around here for awhile and all I was trying to say was that a lot of the details you were pointing out weren't the typical telltale signs I've seen with the counterfeits and that we've seen some weird things with the lettering and makers marks on knives that were actually authentic

I'm sure there are others who are knowledgeable reading these posts. They would likely tell you the same thing I did. Often it's too hard to determine authenticity from a few pics. It could be a fake (or not) If you really want to know then send it into Spyderco. That's what Sal or Kristy or Mike J would tell you too. But it's certainly understandable if you just want to return it and not deal with it. How much more support are you looking for?

You're beginning to wonder who I am? What's that supposed to mean? Do you think I'm a shill who's working for the Chinese counterfeiters? Or maybe the ebay seller? I'm just a Spyderco enthusiast trying to inform and help another Spyderco enthusiast but evidently you know it all already and just came here to inform us all. See ya!

[ImHereForTheMilitary2]

I just dont understand this. why would anyone fake this?

[Ramonade]

Likely not a second if there's no notch but I'm not so sure all the other details are actually indicators that the knife in question is a fake. You don't see too many fakes of exclusive models. Plus we've seen some authentic knives get in the wild that made it through QC that shouldn't have. How's the action? Does it feel like the authentic knife?

If I really wanted to keep it I think I'd send it to Spyderco to verify

Well the Tanto has been faked a lot for the past couple of years. I think it is because of the fact that it is selling very well on the secondary market !
Aliexpress is filled with new fake Tanto PM2 every week, then the product is removed from the website and comes back a few days after

[Giygas]

I apologize but I haven't taken the time to read everything you wrote since my last post. I promise I will later. In the meantime, I had previously said I found it hard to believe that there were Chinese clones of the PM2 Tanto and I still believe that. I did a few web searches and I can't find a thing about PM2 clones. It doesn't mean it isn't a thing but again, I still haven't seen an actual counterfeit of a Spyderco Sprint or Exclusive ever. Every one I've seen are regular production models. Maybe there are some I'm not aware of or maybe this is a first IDK but based on what you've posted I'm still not sure what you had was actually a counterfeit. That's why it would've been good to send it Spyderco and let them confirm authenticity

Look, I didn't want to start a debate about this. I really only wanted to point out what I knew about PM2 fakes and give you some more things to look for. If you had reason to think what you had wasn't authentic it was probably best that you returned it for a refund

Take care

[Sharp Guy]

Yeah I got the point earlier that they do make counterfeit PM2 Tantos. They don't seem to come up on any searches for me here in the US. I've quit looking because I'm not that interested in counterfeit knives to waste any more time on the subject. I was able to come up with the website above and it's apparently quite a scam and probably not appropriate to post it here for others to see. You're just advertising counterfeit knives on Spyderco's Forum. I'd suggest deleting it.

[HolySteel]

Yeah I got the point earlier that they do make counterfeit PM2 Tantos. They don't seem to come up on any searches for me here in the US. I've quit looking because I'm not that interested in counterfeit knives to waste any more time on the subject. I was able to come up with the website above and it's apparently quite a scam and probably not appropriate to post it here for others to see. You're just advertising counterfeit knives on Spyderco's Forum. I'd suggest deleting it.

Now that I've been reimbursed for the clone, I'll add that I bought an authentic BHQ Tanto a week later, put them side-by-side and took photos. It revealed nothing that I haven't already stated in this thread, but it's disturbing to me that people think Spyderco could be producing variants of knives that look as bad as clones. That's nonsense. As far as 'action', many of the clones have great action, just as many Spydercos have to be tweaked slightly to get the action they are capable of. Good action is a non-factor in identifying clones.

Now the same seller is at it again - this time it's a Schempp Bowie clone on ebay. Part of his description: "I ordered this knife because it looked good and it would be assembled at the factory.. I collect Spyderco folders and this looked great. Ordered a second one for myself…
Made in Taichuang Taiwan, really didn’t expect this quality."

This is now really more about an ebay seller who bought a bunch of Spyderco clones and is now slowly releasing them on ebay, advertised as authentic.

This is the only picture you need to identify it as a clone. If you have trouble, find an authentic one and compare the bolsters.

[HolySteel]

Three things that makes these ebay sellers a real problem:

1) Ebay won't take down the listing, no matter how many times other ebay members report it.
2) The seller is trying to appear legit by also selling authentic Spydercos.
3) Some collectors of authentic Spydercos can't identify clones. If the person buying this appears to us to be knowledgeable about knives, and later resells it to one of us, you may have a heckuva time getting a refund, as the seller doesn't have the ability to tell a real knife from a clone.

[Sharp Guy]

I never thought Spyderco was producing knives that looked as bad as clones. I was merely trying to point out some of the past indicators of clones to give you some other details to look for. I was honestly trying to help. Sorry I got involved in the first place. Lesson learned

[HolySteel]

I never thought Spyderco was producing knives that looked as bad as clones. I was merely trying to point out some of the past indicators of clones to give you some other details to look for. I was honestly trying to help. Sorry I got involved in the first place. Lesson learned

I read your comments as defending the clone as probably being authentic. No one here contradicted you, or supported my post, and since to me this was obviously 100% a clone, I figured you were either the seller or just having fun with a 'new guy', and out of respect for your membership contributions (which I acknowledge, are obviously significant), others were just sitting back and smiling. The apathy still has me confused, as these knives are selling to people whose feedback indicates that they believe they are authentic. I can understand that more senior forum members are very well aware of these issues and are probably rolling their eyes over such posts, but YOU didn't see it was an 'obvious' clone, and no one here is unique, so it's probably that other long-time collectors could get fooled as well. And it will all continue, as the seller is adding more clones to ebay and the apathy is still there.

Which brings me to my sad admission that, based on the seller photos, feedback, and other authentic Spydercos he was selling at the same time, I got fooled, and I have seven or so PM2s I could have compared the images to. Knife in hand, it was a different story. The seller gave a quick refund, which kept me from being able to leave feedback...so I didn't help the ebay community one iota.

So no - I'm the one who should be sorry for getting involved in the first place. I added the Schempp Bowie to this thread just in case there are 1 or 2 members who give a flip, but I won't be saying a word about clones in the future.