Machining marks on BNIB 15v Shaman?

[RyanAnchors]

I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced this? I’m not bent out of shape about it because I plan on using it anyway and I also doubt cosmetic stuff would be covered under warranty for a knife they can’t easily replace parts on, but it is strange. I’ve just never seen grind marks like that on a NIB Spyderco, especially a Sprint. I usually don’t even see them that often on factory seconds models. Hard to capture with my crappy camera, but I have another Shaman and a couple 15v Manixs in the video for comparison (and other Sprints/Exclusives) that don’t have any strange marks (other than ones I may have put on them).


Again, I’m not mad or anything, just curious. I still love Spyderco and this knife. But let me know what you think.

Vid/pics: https://imgur.com/a/OiIHoHo

[Matus]

It is a machined blade. This was done by grinding with subsequent stone-wash of some sorts. The steel is very hard and abrasion resistant and thus it is (a) not finely polished before the stone-wash and (b) the stone wash cannot cover the grinding marks completely. The same is true for the Maxamet blades when you take a close look. 'Perfect' finish could easily add $50+ per blade and it may not even be possible with the tools that Spyderco uses.

The knife is fine, enjoy it.

[Deadboxhero]

I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced this? I’m not bent out of shape about it because I plan on using it anyway and I also doubt cosmetic stuff would be covered under warranty for a knife they can’t easily replace parts on, but it is strange. I’ve just never seen grind marks like that on a NIB Spyderco, especially a Sprint. I usually don’t even see them that often on factory seconds models. Hard to capture with my crappy camera, but I have another Shaman and a couple 15v Manixs in the video for comparison (and other Sprints/Exclusives) that don’t have any strange marks (other than ones I may have put on them).


Again, I’m not mad or anything, just curious. I still love Spyderco and this knife. But let me know what you think.

Vid/pics: https://imgur.com/a/OiIHoHo

I'm sure you can message Spyderco and they can help figure something out. I'm not sure what they'll do for you since these are a Sprint run and they're not being made anymore, but it might be worth a shot If it's important enough for you to post about.

In my opinion, as someone that works with CPM 15V, I feel we may have to keep our expectations within reason.

This is a production knife, not a handmade, hand finished custom knife and the price reflects that.
Believe it or not, a lot of handmade knives are in $1,000 range, not the $300 range. So, like it or not there are trade-offs between time and volume.

Sometimes the magic of something is pretending like it's not difficult. However, rest assured CPM 15V is an extremely difficult steel to work with, It seems there's a lot of people that feel like there's not really any difference between steels. I promise you, there is certainly a difference in manufacturing.

So while it does look like steel and it doesn't look any different than the other "shiny metals" 15V is an absolute monster to work with.

What makes it so challenging to finish?

It has over 23% of the volume of the matrix as vanadium carbide at 87rc.

The overall hardness is 65rc

These numbers may be mumbo jumbo but for making knives in a production setting, this is quite extreme.



Most manufacturers will not even deal with steel like this because it is incredibly difficult to machine and finish and the cost of consumables and finishing time can be expensive and difficult; cutting into margins and making it impossible to keep the cost of the knife down and for it to look good.

That's why a lot of the time when people ask for steels like CPM 15V It really falls on deaf ears with manufacturers. Nobody in the manufacturing side wants to get their asses kicked trying to finish blades that are impossible to work with which can lead to some finishing errors coming up for customers to crucify your company for.



Now I'm not making excuses to why the finish on your blade you is not to your satisfactory. However, maybe we can give such a challenging steel in a production setting some slack?



What you are paying for when you buy this specific Sprint run in CPM 15V is how well it sharpens, the stability for what the material is and how long it cuts, A lot of effort was put in to give a great edge performance experience and Spyderco is the only company in the world that can translate that into a sub $1000 production knife.

[Dnwrghtsr]

At the seconds sale I would say the majority of knives I see that I can find a defect with are left side grind. The 15v’s are stone washed so you have to have the right light at the right angle to see it. I can see how one would get through quality control it is very hard to detect.

[RyanAnchors]

I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced this? I’m not bent out of shape about it because I plan on using it anyway and I also doubt cosmetic stuff would be covered under warranty for a knife they can’t easily replace parts on, but it is strange. I’ve just never seen grind marks like that on a NIB Spyderco, especially a Sprint. I usually don’t even see them that often on factory seconds models. Hard to capture with my crappy camera, but I have another Shaman and a couple 15v Manixs in the video for comparison (and other Sprints/Exclusives) that don’t have any strange marks (other than ones I may have put on them).


Again, I’m not mad or anything, just curious. I still love Spyderco and this knife. But let me know what you think.

Vid/pics: https://imgur.com/a/OiIHoHo

I'm sure you can message Spyderco and they can help figure something out. I'm not sure what they'll do for you since these are a Sprint run and they're not being made anymore, but it might be worth a shot If it's important enough for you to post about.

In my opinion, as someone that works with CPM 15V, I feel we may have to keep our expectations within reason.

This is a production knife, not a handmade, hand finished custom knife and the price reflects that.
Believe it or not, a lot of handmade knives are in $1,000 range, not the $300 range. So, like it or not there are trade-offs between time and volume.

Sometimes the magic of something is pretending like it's not difficult. However, rest assured CPM 15V is an extremely difficult steel to work with, It seems there's a lot of people that feel like there's not really any difference between steels. I promise you, there is certainly a difference in manufacturing.

So while it does look like steel and it doesn't look any different than the other "shiny metals" 15V is an absolute monster to work with.

What makes it so challenging to finish?

It has over 23% of the volume of the matrix as vanadium carbide at 87rc.

The overall hardness is 65rc

These numbers may be mumbo jumbo but for making knives in a production setting, this is quite extreme.



Most manufacturers will not even deal with steel like this because it is incredibly difficult to machine and finish and the cost of consumables and finishing time can be expensive and difficult; cutting into margins and making it impossible to keep the cost of the knife down and for it to look good.

That's why a lot of the time when people ask for steels like CPM 15V It really falls on deaf ears with manufacturers. Nobody in the manufacturing side wants to get their asses kicked trying to finish blades that are impossible to work with which can lead to some finishing errors coming up for customers to crucify your company for.



Now I'm not making excuses to why the finish on your blade you is not to your satisfactory. However, maybe we can give such a challenging steel in a production setting some slack?



What you are paying for when you buy this specific Sprint run in CPM 15V is how well it sharpens, the stability for what the material is and how long it cuts, A lot of effort was put in to give a great edge performance experience and Spyderco is the only company in the world that can translate that into a sub $1000 production knife.

The dude himself
Thanks for replying man. Like I said, I’m not too worried about it, I was just curious. I feel like the first time I cut some thick cardboard or something harder it’s going to get streaks on it anyway plus I don’t think there’s much they can do because I’m certainly not interested in returning it for credit towards something else still being produced.

These knives are great and I believe you about finishing them post heat treat. I was just wondering since both Manixs look perfect, but the Shaman is also a fat chunk of steel with a bit more complex of a grind.

Thanks again for chiming in, I appreciate it.

[RyanAnchors]

It is a machined blade. This was done by grinding with subsequent stone-wash of some sorts. The steel is very hard and abrasion resistant and thus it is (a) not finely polished before the stone-wash and (b) the stone wash cannot cover the grinding marks completely. The same is true for the Maxamet blades when you take a close look. 'Perfect' finish could easily add $50+ per blade and it may not even be possible with the tools that Spyderco uses.

The knife is fine, enjoy it.

That makes sense and also explains why I’ve seen so many “seconds” on the market of the Maxamet and 15v blades. I love Spyderco for even being willing to take them on.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

Can this be considered a flaw? To expect a stonewashed blade to be free of tooling marks seems rather unreasonable, it's very nature is to be full of them and the tumbling process itself adds an almost infinite number of marks. These machined tooling marks are difficult to even see without having just the perfect lighting and viewing angle, even furthering to minimize any unpleasantness.

Here's my thought, if it bothers you then have a go at polishing it yourself to your liking... then you will likely appreciate much more the state in which the knife was delivered. You could easily make the knife look far worse just taking it to stone or sandpapers. You'll obviously be unable to change things quickly without diamond or CBN, so many will never touch the primary grind and just accept that it will never be perfect.

[RyanAnchors]

Can this be considered a flaw? To expect a stonewashed blade to be free of tooling marks seems rather unreasonable, it's very nature is to be full of them and the tumbling process itself adds an almost infinite number of marks. These machined tooling marks are difficult to even see without having just the perfect lighting and viewing angle, even furthering to minimize any unpleasantness.

Here's my thought, if it bothers you then have a go at polishing it yourself to your liking... then you will likely appreciate much more the state in which the knife was delivered. You could easily make the knife look far worse just taking it to stone or sandpapers. You'll obviously be unable to change things quickly without diamond or CBN, so many will never touch the primary grind and just accept that it will never be perfect.

Like I said, I’m not upset about it. It’s easy to put scratches/rubs in any knife that look pretty similar to that on day one of carrying it. I was just curious. Could it be considered a flaw? I would say yes since none of my other Spydercos including two other 15vs have any similar tooling marks and because most of the “factory seconds” have similar marks. That said, I don’t see myself emailing and complaining about it lol maybe if I bought it strictly for collection purposes, but I plan on using it anyway so no worries for me

[apollo]

My Shaman also has a rather large "grind spot" on the show side depending on how the light shines on it. But it doesnt bother me since its a user. Must say i had my doubts about the 15v hype until i started using it. It really is one heck of a steel!

[Naperville]

To the original poster,

Back in the early 90's when I was away at college, I was reading a lot of knife and firearm books, who knows maybe even Soldier of Fortune if it was still printed at that time. Decided to buy a Randal Made Knife, so I ordered a beautiful Model 14.

Didn't know what to expect. Received the knife and to my horror is had strop marks on it! Of course the first thing I thought was that it needed a polish job to get rid of the marks. So I went and bought all the pastes and sand paper and set to it....

Two months and several hundred hours later I was almost done with one side. Never bothered with the backside. That was the end of that level of insanity! Lesson learned.

Now I'm not saying that you cannot buy or make a mirror finished blade, but there are special tools for this, and there are special people that do this. Costs go up if you want a mirror polished blade. That is why some knives are under $500, and others are over $5,000.

[RyanAnchors]

To the original poster,

Back in the early 90's when I was away at college, I was reading a lot of knife and firearm books, who knows maybe even Soldier of Fortune if it was still printed at that time. Decided to buy a Randal Made Knife, so I ordered a beautiful Model 14.

Didn't know what to expect. Received the knife and to my horror is had strop marks on it! Of course the first thing I thought was that it needed a polish job to get rid of the marks. So I went and bought all the pastes and sand paper and set to it....

Two months and several hundred hours later I was almost done with one side. Never bothered with the backside. That was the end of that level of insanity! Lesson learned.

Now I'm not saying that you cannot buy or make a mirror finished blade, but there are special tools for this, and there are special people that do this. Costs go up if you want a mirror polished blade. That is why some knives are under $500, and others are over $5,000.

I have zero interest in mirror finished blades, even in fancy “show knives” haha. I like the stonewash and satin finishes. I love the uniform grind marks on satin finishes actually especially on an interesting grind knife (Canis, for example). This is just an unintentional grind mark that didn’t get stonewashed out, but I’m okay with that like I said. But yeah I wouldn’t try to fix it myself especially on hardened 15v lol that would be an exercise in futility even if I had the right tools and skill

[ladybug93]

the real question here is why doesn't awt offer scales with the original manix profile?! i happen to find the lack of palm swell a deal-breaker and wish they'd at least offer both. that's a great looking manix though.

[Naperville]

To the original poster,

Back in the early 90's when I was away at college, I was reading a lot of knife and firearm books, who knows maybe even Soldier of Fortune if it was still printed at that time. Decided to buy a Randal Made Knife, so I ordered a beautiful Model 14.

Didn't know what to expect. Received the knife and to my horror is had strop marks on it! Of course the first thing I thought was that it needed a polish job to get rid of the marks. So I went and bought all the pastes and sand paper and set to it....

Two months and several hundred hours later I was almost done with one side. Never bothered with the backside. That was the end of that level of insanity! Lesson learned.

Now I'm not saying that you cannot buy or make a mirror finished blade, but there are special tools for this, and there are special people that do this. Costs go up if you want a mirror polished blade. That is why some knives are under $500, and others are over $5,000.

I have zero interest in mirror finished blades, even in fancy “show knives” haha. I like the stonewash and satin finishes. I love the uniform grind marks on satin finishes actually especially on an interesting grind knife (Canis, for example). This is just an unintentional grind mark that didn’t get stonewashed out, but I’m okay with that like I said. But yeah I wouldn’t try to fix it myself especially on hardened 15v lol that would be an exercise in futility even if I had the right tools and skill

I'll buy a few mirror finished blades if/when I have the money, but I'm not going to tackle that again on my own. And hopefully my nephew or niece would like them as much as I do so that when I pass them down they take care of them.

[RyanAnchors]

To the original poster,

Back in the early 90's when I was away at college, I was reading a lot of knife and firearm books, who knows maybe even Soldier of Fortune if it was still printed at that time. Decided to buy a Randal Made Knife, so I ordered a beautiful Model 14.

Didn't know what to expect. Received the knife and to my horror is had strop marks on it! Of course the first thing I thought was that it needed a polish job to get rid of the marks. So I went and bought all the pastes and sand paper and set to it....

Two months and several hundred hours later I was almost done with one side. Never bothered with the backside. That was the end of that level of insanity! Lesson learned.

Now I'm not saying that you cannot buy or make a mirror finished blade, but there are special tools for this, and there are special people that do this. Costs go up if you want a mirror polished blade. That is why some knives are under $500, and others are over $5,000.

I have zero interest in mirror finished blades, even in fancy “show knives” haha. I like the stonewash and satin finishes. I love the uniform grind marks on satin finishes actually especially on an interesting grind knife (Canis, for example). This is just an unintentional grind mark that didn’t get stonewashed out, but I’m okay with that like I said. But yeah I wouldn’t try to fix it myself especially on hardened 15v lol that would be an exercise in futility even if I had the right tools and skill

I'll buy a few mirror finished blades if/when I have the money, but I'm not going to tackle that again on my own. And hopefully my nephew or niece would like them as much as I do so that when I pass them down they take care of them.

I’m leaving a list of my knives and other stuff of value with the exact model names and what they’re worth at the time, etc. If I’m blessed to get to very old age, I’ll sell them before I go probably. Rather make sure people that appreciate them get them rather than just having them auctioned for pennies or worse. But if anyone in my family takes an interest in that kinda stuff then they can have them for sure

[Subverto]

I have a factory seconds Para 3 in Maxamet that looks exactly like your 15V blade, and have seen a bunch of factory seconds with machining in that exact same spot. It's a bummer you paid full price for a knife that probably should have been caught by QC, but with Spyderco not willing to give any info on the future production plans of 15V I don't think it would be a good idea to send it in for warranty. They'll probably just give you a refund since they don't keep extra stock of sprint runs on hand for warranty replacement.

[capt.carl]

Ive had a hogue ritter with the same thing in the same spot.

[Evil D]

I have similar lines on my Shaman and both my mules. I assumed they were stubborn leftovers from the blade grinding process that didn't/couldn't come out during stonewashing. I have had similar lines on other models/steels so I didn't think much of it.

[Naperville]

I’m leaving a list of my knives and other stuff of value with the exact model names and what they’re worth at the time, etc. If I’m blessed to get to very old age, I’ll sell them before I go probably. Rather make sure people that appreciate them get them rather than just having them auctioned for pennies or worse. But if anyone in my family takes an interest in that kinda stuff then they can have them for sure

I already have a detailed list of all of my knives but it is not up to date. I sold 1/2 of the knives that I had in 2022. I have to update the list, add new knives purchased, and lookup approximate current values and give them a ballpark on what a knife value may be 10yrs out if the list is not updated.

[RyanAnchors]

I’m leaving a list of my knives and other stuff of value with the exact model names and what they’re worth at the time, etc. If I’m blessed to get to very old age, I’ll sell them before I go probably. Rather make sure people that appreciate them get them rather than just having them auctioned for pennies or worse. But if anyone in my family takes an interest in that kinda stuff then they can have them for sure

I already have a detailed list of all of my knives but it is not up to date. I sold 1/2 of the knives that I had in 2022. I have to update the list, add new knives purchased, and lookup approximate current values and give them a ballpark on what a knife value may be 10yrs out if the list is not updated.

Yeah, that’s a good thing to do. Witnessed too many horror stories. I worked for a large gun/knife dealer for years and people would come in sometime trying to sell a whole collection for whatever we would give them. Luckily for them we didn’t buy used anyway, but we always tried to help them avoid getting ripped off. I spent two hours one day and an hour another day helping some lady price her dad’s collection even though we would make $0 on that time I spent. She was really nice so she asked if there was anything I personally liked at the end. She had a BNIB 1966 Colt Trooper .357 with all original everything, unfired. She already knew what they were worth which honestly wasn’t as much as you would think at the time (they’re worth a lot more now). She gave me a really great deal on it for helping her out and sold me all of the random bits of ammo he had collected (all kinds of weird calibers, a few boxes each). I felt good about it since she at least knew what she was doing. I would roll in my grave if someone I loved sold my knife collection for $100 or even $1000 or something to someone who was just going to turn around and flip it at a huge profit. I would rather give it away to someone cool that would appreciate it than have that happen.

[Evil D]

Here are some pics of mine the day I got it. I didn't plan on posting these but at least now you know you're not alone.







I have two 15V mules but I really haven't had time to look them over to see if they have similar marks, working a lot of hours these days.