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Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:23 pm
by Cheddarnut
Ok, so what do y’all think of an A) chisel grind option and B) of it favouring right handed bias, meaning the bevels would be on the “show” side (thanks The Internet for creating a “show side”
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Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:12 am
by RustyIron
I don't know what the "show side" is. But the conventional way of doing a chisel grind is perfect for me... as a person who identifies as left handed. If I was right handed, I would strongly dislike the conventional chisel grind.
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:22 am
by Wartstein
RustyIron wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:12 am
I don't know what the "show side" is....
I trink the side opposite to the "clip side"... (so show side = where the clip is not)
Not 100% sure though
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:30 am
by Wartstein
Not much experience with chisel grinds in PE.
But I'd actually love to try one (PE chisel grind) in a Spyderco!!
Main reason: I am never entirely sure to what degree the (for me) superior performance of SE over PE is due to the actual teeth and how much perhaps to the chisel grind Spydercos SE always comes in.
PE chisel grind would give me the opportunity to compare and find out
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:55 am
by Evil D
I'd be really interesting in trying one out, but I have learned there is an advantage to sharpening them the way they currently are, at least with serrations because for me it's easier to make the majority of sharpening strokes on a Sharpmaker on the left side rod (being a righty). I've always felt like they would carve better if the presentation side was the flat side.
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:51 am
by cjk
Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:55 am
I'd be really interesting in trying one out, but I have learned there is an advantage to sharpening them the way they currently are, at least with serrations because for me it's easier to make the majority of sharpening strokes on a Sharpmaker on the left side rod (being a righty). I've always felt like they would carve better if the presentation side was the flat side.
I wonder if they would work the same or better if they were serrated on the opposite side too.
I have a Victorinox serrated SAK (actually several) and a Spyderco serrated Endela. Both are excellent cutters. No complaints about either.
They're serrated on opposite sides. The serrations are quite different. The blade thicknesses are different. The Vic doesn't want to drift while cutting like the Endela does.
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:59 am
by JRinFL
I found this on Spyderco forum on the other site:
Good morning Harri - When we first started making serrated knives '81/'82. Testing revealed that when cutting something, the serrated blade veered in the direction away from the serration grind. Towards the hand holding whatever was being cut. This unnerved some people.
Most did not use the serrated edges for precision cuts, but for "high performance matter separation", often times in a "hurry". The single bevel (kataba) kitchen knives require the bevel to be on the "back" side of the knife for precision cutting, like sashimi. These are plain edged.
Again in testing, in the kitchen, the American homemaker prefered the serrations on the "front" (left) side for the same reason, the knife gravitated away from the hand holding the item being cut (assuming right handed homemaker).
We've just continued doing it the same way for the same reasons.
We have made a few knives with double ground serrations. New dynamics there. I believe we will ultimately go to that years in the future. There is much research in that area needed. Hope this helps
sal
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:43 am
by Evil D
cjk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:51 am
Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:55 am
I'd be really interesting in trying one out, but I have learned there is an advantage to sharpening them the way they currently are, at least with serrations because for me it's easier to make the majority of sharpening strokes on a Sharpmaker on the left side rod (being a righty). I've always felt like they would carve better if the presentation side was the flat side.
I wonder if they would work the same or better if they were serrated on the opposite side too.
I have a Victorinox serrated SAK (actually several) and a Spyderco serrated Endela. Both are excellent cutters. No complaints about either.
They're serrated on opposite sides. The serrations are quite different. The blade thicknesses are different. The Vic doesn't want to drift while cutting like the Endela does.
Blade thickness is the likely culprit. You have to figure the wider the chisel shape is that you get from the serrations the more drifting it'll want to do, or in other words the higher the angle the serrations are ground at combined with how thick the blade is. Thickness matters because the bevel could be super high angle like 30 degrees non inclusive but if the bevel was only 0.5mm wide due to the blade being so thin, there's a lot less wedge to cause drifting. If the serrations are ground at 20 degrees and the blade is really thick (as we might see on an old saber grind) then the wedge is more broad and it's like driving a literal chisel through a cut.
I would like to explore thinner/lower angle serrations but they are also far easier to sharpen away and you would really need to be careful with coarse grit sharpening.
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:46 am
by The Mastiff
A) I have no use for them. I tried and quickly gave up the chisel grind probably around 15 years ago. I had several of them in PE.
B) Don't care which side it's on I won't be using it.
I thought it was a great idea. It sounded a lot better than it worked. :)
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:01 am
by cjk
Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:43 am
cjk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:51 am
Evil D wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:55 am
I'd be really interesting in trying one out, but I have learned there is an advantage to sharpening them the way they currently are, at least with serrations because for me it's easier to make the majority of sharpening strokes on a Sharpmaker on the left side rod (being a righty). I've always felt like they would carve better if the presentation side was the flat side.
I wonder if they would work the same or better if they were serrated on the opposite side too.
I have a Victorinox serrated SAK (actually several) and a Spyderco serrated Endela. Both are excellent cutters. No complaints about either.
They're serrated on opposite sides. The serrations are quite different. The blade thicknesses are different. The Vic doesn't want to drift while cutting like the Endela does.
Blade thickness is the likely culprit. You have to figure the wider the chisel shape is that you get from the serrations the more drifting it'll want to do, or in other words the higher the angle the serrations are ground at combined with how thick the blade is. Thickness matters because the bevel could be super high angle like 30 degrees non inclusive but if the bevel was only 0.5mm wide due to the blade being so thin, there's a lot less wedge to cause drifting. If the serrations are ground at 20 degrees and the blade is really thick (as we might see on an old saber grind) then the wedge is more broad and it's like driving a literal chisel through a cut.
I would like to explore thinner/lower angle serrations but they are also far easier to sharpen away and you would really need to be careful with coarse grit sharpening.
Thanks, that makes sense!
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:58 am
by Wartstein
JRinFL wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:59 am
I found this on Spyderco forum on the other site:
...
That's actually really interesting, thanks!
Also, but not only the plan(they HAD??) going towards "double ground serrations "
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:20 am
by Bill1170
Sal’s comment that he expects to move to double-ground serrations in the future was surprising and interesting, too. It would solve the steering problem. You’d want to sharpen them at something like 20 degrees inclusive (Galley Vee?) to maintain performance similar to what we have now.
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:04 pm
by Stuart Ackerman
A chisel grind is an offset vee grind...
There, I have said it! :)
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:13 pm
by Evil D
Stuart Ackerman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:04 pm
A chisel grind is an offset vee grind...
There, I have said it! :)
Re: Chisel Grind (Right Handed)
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:00 pm
by JRinFL
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