I’m an indecisive giant. Millie vs Chief!

[Doc Dan]

For me (and I think here I probably AM in a minority) a choil almost can't get any better than on the Millie, gives great control, does not sacrifice a lot of edge: Perfect. In my view the pm2-ish choil is, while still good, a "downgrade".

We are in 100% agreement, there. The choil on the Millie 1 is the only choil I feel is well done and tolerable. It is there, yet it is not there, if you know what I mean. When gripping the knife using the choil there is nothing to dig into one's finger and it is rounded and smooth.

[dan31]

For me (and I think here I probably AM in a minority) a choil almost can't get any better than on the Millie, gives great control, does not sacrifice a lot of edge: Perfect. In my view the pm2-ish choil is, while still good, a "downgrade".

We are in 100% agreement, there. The choil on the Millie 1 is the only choil I feel is well done and tolerable. It is there, yet it is not there, if you know what I mean. When gripping the knife using the choil there is nothing to dig into one's finger and it is rounded and smooth.

The previous version of the Stretch and the Gayle Bradley both have a shallow choil that I prefer as well. I get why some users would want a deeper more defined choil. Choices are nice.

[awa54]

. I do feel that the Chief has an advantage in grip security when used in the forward grip, but that's the only edge it has IMO.

Four way clip, thinner BTE, much more compact when closed, much more comfortable when choked up......Chief offers a lot more than grip security in this context....

You're totally correct, the ambidextrous aspect of both the lock and clip options is a major consideration for many users, but for my use the limitations of right hand tip down aren't an issue. I thought it would be, when I first decided to get a Millie, but after a few weeks of use it just stopped bothering me at all.

The only pants I own that won't accommodate a Millie are dress pants (I don't carry 4" blades while wearing dress slacks), they wouldn't fit a Chief either... On top of that I feel like "much more compact when closed" is a bit of an exaggeration, in my world overall pocket bulk is pretty similar.

As far as the choked up position, I differ in opinion, while the Chief definitely offers a more secure and locked in grip, the Millie is more comfortable for me. While I have wide palms and thick fingers for someone my stature, I'm no giant, so the diminutive forward choil likely bothers me much less than you.

In a 3.5" or longer blade, a minor increase in thickness BTE can be an advantage for my use... and the Millie still isn't a bad slicer despite that difference.

As many are mentioning here, almost all of these opinions are totally subjective and the ones I expressed are the most important for my use of each knife. As you can tell, I'm still a big fan of the Millie despite what many, or even most here consider it's shortcomings. Just my 2 cents, YMMV, IMO, no wrong answer, etc.

[Evil D]

Grip wise is a toss up for me, the Chief is way more secure when choked up on the choil, but few knives have as good of a pommel grip end as the Military. I'm seriously going to look into making my own scales for a Chief that combine the two.

[wrdwrght]

Early in my time here, the Chief was a rumor. I soon found an image of a supposed prototype and started to ask about it.

Years passed. I acquired a Military Model, then several more, so much did I like it, especially its blade shape, perfect choil, and commodious handle.

Then, new Native models were announced and I thought, “the Chief at last!” But no, Sal surprised us with the remarkable Shaman, and I still had to wait, but contentedly. Wait I did and now I have the original and the S90V. Couldn’t be happier.

In fact my wife and I are currently on an 8-week roadtrip to, through, and from the Southwest (with a visit planned to SFO). I have brought my S30V Chief (along with my Tanto PM2 and M4 Shaman) because, truth be told, at home I use my Millies and regular PM2s far more than my Chiefs, but only because of habit. I’ll see if my travels can break my habit.

I do love the original Millie’s blade-shape so much that I just bought the new Cruwear Stretch2 XL as a salve because it offers this blade-shape while the Military2 strangely will not.

What I love more about the Chief than either Millie is its graceful lines plus the generous choil it needs for control of detail work with its longish blade and continuously-curved edge.

If you can’t detect an actual recommendation here, it’s because I have and love both but for slightly different reasons.

[Mushroom]

Early in my time here, the Chief was a rumor. I soon found an image of a supposed prototype and started to ask about it.

Years passed. I acquired a Military Model, then several more, so much did I like it, especially its blade shape, perfect choil, and commodious handle.

Then, new Native models were announced and I thought, “the Chief at last!” But no, Sal surprised us with the remarkable Shaman, and I still had to wait, but contentedly. Wait I did and now I have the original and the S90V. Couldn’t be happier.

In fact my wife and I are currently on an 8-week roadtrip to, through, and from the Southwest (with a visit planned to SFO). I have brought my S30V Chief (along with my Tanto PM2 and M4 Shaman) because, truth be told, at home I use my Millies and regular PM2s far more than my Chiefs, but only because of habit. I’ll see if my travels can break my habit.

I do love the original Millie’s blade-shape so much that I just bought the new Cruwear Stretch2 XL as a salve because it offers this blade-shape while the Military2 strangely will not.

What I love more about the Chief than either Millie is its graceful lines plus the generous choil it needs for control of detail work with its longish blade and continuously-curved edge.

If you can’t detect an actual recommendation here, it’s because I have and love both but for slightly different reasons.

At face value I understand what you wrote but I’m not sure I fully understand what you mean. Are you saying the blade of the Stretch 2 XL is more similar to the original Military Model than the blade shape on the Military 2?

If so, I would follow up by asking what is it about the Military 2 blade shape that’s so dissimilar from the Military Model that the Stretch 2 XL blade shape can be considered more similar?

[wrdwrght]

Early in my time here, the Chief was a rumor. I soon found an image of a supposed prototype and started to ask about it.

Years passed. I acquired a Military Model, then several more, so much did I like it, especially its blade shape, perfect choil, and commodious handle.

Then, new Native models were announced and I thought, “the Chief at last!” But no, Sal surprised us with the remarkable Shaman, and I still had to wait, but contentedly. Wait I did and now I have the original and the S90V. Couldn’t be happier.

In fact my wife and I are currently on an 8-week roadtrip to, through, and from the Southwest (with a visit planned to SFO). I have brought my S30V Chief (along with my Tanto PM2 and M4 Shaman) because, truth be told, at home I use my Millies and regular PM2s far more than my Chiefs, but only because of habit. I’ll see if my travels can break my habit.

I do love the original Millie’s blade-shape so much that I just bought the new Cruwear Stretch2 XL as a salve because it offers this blade-shape while the Military2 strangely will not.

What I love more about the Chief than either Millie is its graceful lines plus the generous choil it needs for control of detail work with its longish blade and continuously-curved edge.

If you can’t detect an actual recommendation here, it’s because I have and love both but for slightly different reasons.

At face value I understand what you wrote but I’m not sure I fully understand what you mean. Are you saying the blade of the Stretch 2 XL is more similar to the original Military Model than the blade shape on the Military 2?

If so, I would follow up by asking what is it about the Military 2 blade shape that’s so dissimilar from the Military Model that the Stretch 2 XL blade shape can be considered more similar?

Yes, to your first question.

To your second, where the Military Model has a useful length of edge that is flat before curving up to the tip, the Military2 has no such flattish length (as does the Stretch2 XL). The Military2’s edge curves from kick to tip just like the PM2, hence the silliness of saying the Military2 is really the PM2 XL (or is it a PM4?) that some here have actually asked for.

[Mushroom]

Yes, to your first question.

To your second, where the Military Model has a useful length of edge that is flat before curving up to the tip, the Military2 has no such flattish length (as does the Stretch2 XL). The Military2’s edge curves from kick to tip just like the PM2, hence the silliness of saying the Military2 is really the PM2 XL (or is it a PM4?) that some here have actually asked for.

Are you sure Military 2 doesn’t have any flat section though? It looks like it does to me. At least the photo in Reveal v12 seems to have a section of flat edge to my perception. It does look like a little bit less flat edge than the Military Model but still relatively similar.

[wrdwrght]

.

[wrdwrght]

Yes, to your first question.

To your second, where the Military Model has a useful length of edge that is flat before curving up to the tip, the Military2 has no such flattish length (as does the Stretch2 XL). The Military2’s edge curves from kick to tip just like the PM2, hence the silliness of saying the Military2 is really the PM2 XL (or is it a PM4?) that some here have actually asked for.

Are you sure Military 2 doesn’t have any flat section though? It looks like it does to me. At least the photo in Reveal v12 seems to have a section of flat edge to my perception. It does look like a little bit less flat edge than the Military Model but still relatively similar.

Pretty sure. 33 seconds in, take a look at https://youtu.be/DTHH5GwEhjQ.

[R100]

It really is fascinating to see the variation in opinions here. The following is just my opinion and certainly no more valid than anyone else's.

I far prefer the Military and, in contrast to some others, I feel like the Military is a more sophisticated, cohesive design. I find the ergonomics work much better in my hand, I far prefer the choil and find the lines flow better to the eye. The Chief's choil is far too large and deep and the handle too narrow behind it for me. Aesthetically it really does seem like a design which has been altered from a different knife than one designed from first principles.

It has been said here that the Chief is thinner behind the edge which is something I always prefer. This is true when I compare my Chief - plain S30V version - to my original 2008 Military but my new St Nick's 4V Military is even a bit thinner bte than the Chief. Whether a Chief or a Military from current stock will be thinnest bte is probably a matter of luck.

The extra belly on the Military blade is also a defining difference to me. I have noticed on the forum that those with more urban/indoor use on artificial materials prefer less belly and lower tips where a blade with some belly better suits outdoor use and natural materials/game processing. The Chief may well be better in a warehouse but to me the Military is the choice for the bush.

Dan

[Doc Dan]

I can't wait to actually get the Millie 2 in hand.

[gunmike1]

It really is fascinating to see the variation in opinions here. The following is just my opinion and certainly no more valid than anyone else's.

I far prefer the Military and, in contrast to some others, I feel like the Military is a more sophisticated, cohesive design. I find the ergonomics work much better in my hand, I far prefer the choil and find the lines flow better to the eye. The Chief's choil is far too large and deep and the handle too narrow behind it for me. Aesthetically it really does seem like a design which has been altered from a different knife than one designed from first principles.

It has been said here that the Chief is thinner behind the edge which is something I always prefer. This is true when I compare my Chief - plain S30V version - to my original 2008 Military but my new St Nick's 4V Military is even a bit thinner bte than the Chief. Whether a Chief or a Military from current stock will be thinnest bte is probably a matter of luck.

The extra belly on the Military blade is also a defining difference to me. I have noticed on the forum that those with more urban/indoor use on artificial materials prefer less belly and lower tips where a blade with some belly better suits outdoor use and natural materials/game processing. The Chief may well be better in a warehouse but to me the Military is the choice for the bush.

Dan

Out of curiousity did you measure the BTE on the St Nick’s Millie, or were you just eyeballing it? My Rex 45 Chief was in the .016”-.018” BTE range, and if my memory in the correct my S30V Chief was around .018”-.019”. If I remember right my Militaries were all in the .018”-.022” range from the factory. My M4 Military was .018” from the factory, and even after changing the angle to 10 degrees per side it is .022” BTE, which is great for a folder that size when you are running such an acute angle.

[Cl1ff]

Has little to with the Chief and Millie comparison, but I tend to prefer low tips and less belly on knives for outdoor use.

I don’t process many animals, though.

One reason I like those characteristics is because the edges don’t tend to slide off rope or branches and I can apply a lot of force across the whole edge without as much wrist movement.

Of course, there are trade offs found in other kinds of cutting, but I like to efficiently pull and push cut certain things in a certain way.

I only have a few exceptions to this “rule” of mine and there’s also a lot of nuance in this that I’m not doing justice to.

However, I think most of Spyderco’s designs, even the Military or Stretch XL, have relatively low tips and not so drastic bellies. They typically are nicely generalized blade shapes (generalized in function).

[Wartstein]

...

...

.....where the Military Model has a useful length of edge that is flat before curving up to the tip, the Military2 has no such flattish length (as does the Stretch2 XL). The Military2’s edge curves from kick to tip just like the PM2, hence the silliness of saying the Military2 is really the PM2 XL (or is it a PM4?) that some here have actually asked for.

If this is true it would be another real advantage of the Millie "1" over the Millie "2" (which, yes, imo is more of a PM4) for me.

Don´t get me wrong, I don´t doubt you, just don´t have my Millie anymore to check and I can´t recall it having such a long amount of completely straight edge before the belly as Stretch XL (and for that matter also the Stretch 1 and 2) has (have)).

Don´t want to sound like a broken record, but sometimes I am just a bit surprised that this difference in "edge profile" gets mentioned (or even noticed ?) so seldom. Meaning "long, completely flat edge before the belly" vs "continuous curve"

In my use I clearly prefer the former (So "Stretch edge profile" over "Manix edge profile" ), but was not aware that the Millie 1 just offers this too according to you.

[R100]

It really is fascinating to see the variation in opinions here. The following is just my opinion and certainly no more valid than anyone else's.

I far prefer the Military and, in contrast to some others, I feel like the Military is a more sophisticated, cohesive design. I find the ergonomics work much better in my hand, I far prefer the choil and find the lines flow better to the eye. The Chief's choil is far too large and deep and the handle too narrow behind it for me. Aesthetically it really does seem like a design which has been altered from a different knife than one designed from first principles.

It has been said here that the Chief is thinner behind the edge which is something I always prefer. This is true when I compare my Chief - plain S30V version - to my original 2008 Military but my new St Nick's 4V Military is even a bit thinner bte than the Chief. Whether a Chief or a Military from current stock will be thinnest bte is probably a matter of luck.

The extra belly on the Military blade is also a defining difference to me. I have noticed on the forum that those with more urban/indoor use on artificial materials prefer less belly and lower tips where a blade with some belly better suits outdoor use and natural materials/game processing. The Chief may well be better in a warehouse but to me the Military is the choice for the bush.

Dan

Out of curiousity did you measure the BTE on the St Nick’s Millie, or were you just eyeballing it? My Rex 45 Chief was in the .016”-.018” BTE range, and if my memory in the correct my S30V Chief was around .018”-.019”. If I remember right my Militaries were all in the .018”-.022” range from the factory. My M4 Military was .018” from the factory, and even after changing the angle to 10 degrees per side it is .022” BTE, which is great for a folder that size when you are running such an acute angle.

I don't have the equipment for really accurate measurements but doing the best I could with my calipers both edges were slightly under 0.5mm, so around 0.18" to 0.2", along most of the edge with the 4V Military slightly less than the Chief. I am very impressed with the grind on the 4V Military and it makes it a much slicier knife than my original one.




Hopefully these photos show it. You can see a line in the 4V blade above the opening whole where the grind goes all the way up and reduces the stock thickness from that point on. The old one starts at full thickness and is thicker at every point along the blade. I noticed the same difference between the PM2 I bought when they were first released and my newish Crucarta PM2.

Dan

[Evil D]

Hopefully these photos show it. You can see a line in the 4V blade above the opening whole where the grind goes all the way up and reduces the stock thickness from that point on. The old one starts at full thickness and is thicker at every point along the blade. I noticed the same difference between the PM2 I bought when they were first released and my newish Crucarta PM2.

Dan

All of mine that have line including the two 4V I just got. My oldest is from 2009, I wonder when that change was made? Do you know how old yours is?

[R100]

All of mine that have line including the two 4V I just got. My oldest is from 2009, I wonder when that change was made? Do you know how old yours is?

I bought that one either 2007 or 2008. It was my first Spyderco and the first online purchase I ever made.

Dan

[Mushroom]

...

...

.....where the Military Model has a useful length of edge that is flat before curving up to the tip, the Military2 has no such flattish length (as does the Stretch2 XL). The Military2’s edge curves from kick to tip just like the PM2, hence the silliness of saying the Military2 is really the PM2 XL (or is it a PM4?) that some here have actually asked for.

If this is true

It is not true. At least, based on what I can see of the Military 2 it is not true. Wrdwrght and I are both making assumptions though, so we’ll have to wait until the Military 2 is released to find out.