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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:57 pm
by James Y
I am a fan of both the Manix 2 (G10 version) and the PM2. In-hand, the Manix 2 is one of, if not the, most comfortable designs for me. But I love both designs, for different reasons.
Jim
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:26 pm
by Bolster
Evil D wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:42 am
Bolster wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:56 am
Evil D wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:52 am
And the Paramilitary name itself was crushing sales before there was a 2 behind it.
I meant to ask...is Spyderco sales data available? Evil D, how did you come by the sales figures you reference? Do you know Spyderco sales figures (whether relative or absolute) for other models as well?
I'm definitely assuming, but I do remember it being really popular, it's probably a safe assumption since it was popular enough to get an updated 2 version.
I'm sure you're correct, just the same. I think the profusion of sprints and exclusives for the PM2 are evidence of its runaway popularity. So, both the PM and the Manix got updated "2" versions, and both have gotten a lot of sprints and exclusives, though it would be fun to know what the ratio is, of sprint/exclusives for PM2:Manix2.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:00 am
by adub
The big problem with the Manix 2 is that it kind of makes every other folding knife obsolete so a lot of people are not ready to accept just how excellent the design is and they prefer to spend their time with lesser knives
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:35 am
by Evil D
I guess we're far enough along in this thread for me to say what I really think is going on with these two models....I thought it was obvious but maybe not?
This is a father vs son design competition. Even though the Para 2 now shares both maker's marks, I'm pretty sure it originally only had Sal's logo, so I've always saw these two as the father/son duo.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:57 am
by Wartstein
As others have said: If we throw the amazing Manix 2 LIGHTWEIGHT in the mix, for me personally without any question that one "wins" over the PM2. Completely SUBjective of course, just cause the LW ticks a lot of boxes on my personal preferences list.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:51 am
by vanka
Let's not forget about the fact that pm2 is highly customizable. Scales, clips, backspacers, you name it . If there's a material that can be machined there's a good chance there's scales made out of it for the pm2. And it's a closed circle - more options for tinkering with the knife drives the sales up which in turn drives more options for customisation. I've seen backspacers made out of dozens of different materials, backspacers with integrated glass breakers, backspacers turning the pm2 into some kind of karambit and many more. How to get a knife with steel "A", with scales "B", clip "C" and backspacer acting as a small bottle opener and have a fidget factor? Buy pm2 and customize it to your liking.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:58 am
by apollo
vanka wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:51 am
Let's not forget about the fact that pm2 is highly customizable. Scales, clips, backspacers, you name it . If there's a material that can be machined there's a good chance there's scales made out of it for the pm2. And it's a closed circle - more options for tinkering with the knife drives the sales up which in turn drives more options for customisation. I've seen backspacers made out of dozens of different materials, backspacers with integrated glass breakers, backspacers turning the pm2 into some kind of karambit and many more. How to get a knife with steel "A", with scales "B", clip "C" and backspacer acting as a small bottle opener and have a fidget factor? Buy pm2 and customize it to your liking.
You clearly never modded a Manix it has the same amount of mods offered as the pm2, only difference is that backspacer mod for the pm2 and the cage mod for the Manix. For the rest clips , scales ( by the way scales for the Manix are cheaper then the pm2 ! ) , waves ,… al are available for both so none of them is better then the other in that way.
Also the Manix is maybe less fidgety but it is far more ambidextrous and that is way more important.
If you want to fidget buy a fidget not a knife…
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:10 am
by mongo1958
Wartstein wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:57 am
As others have said: If we throw the amazing Manix 2 LIGHTWEIGHT in the mix, for me personally without any question that one "wins" over the PM2. Completely SUBjective of course, just cause the LW ticks a lot of boxes on my personal preferences list.
I do love the Manix LW, It is only 3 oz. I used it to cut the seals on the tube of Austrian Philharmonic Silver coins.
That being said the PM2 is in my pocket with my S&W Shield in the other pocket.
I wonder if a PM2 LW will ever be made?
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:15 am
by mongo1958
apollo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:58 am
If you want to fidget buy a fidget not a knife…
I've never under stood that. I mean. I play with the knife to get used to the action, but to continually fidget with it?
Any way, to each his own.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:25 am
by mongo1958
WilliamMunny wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:19 am
Evil D wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:47 am
RamZar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:43 am
Evil D wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:23 am
What's wild is when I bought my first one, the street price was something like $80 and I don't think that was much more than 10 years ago and has almost doubled in price. I remember reading that the Manix 2 was something of an experiment to sell a knife at a lower cost and higher volume, and I guess it still is about $30 cheaper than a Para 2. I wonder if that experiment is still ongoing or if it's actually cheaper to make a Manix 2, I would guess it's not about manufacturing cost because the Manix has so many more pieces to make and is significantly more finicky to assemble.
I too have been curious on why Manix2 S30V & G-10 at $151.20 is $34.30 less than ParaMilitary2 S45VN & G-10 at $185.50. Is the price of the Manix2 artificially held down (to get more sales, etc.)? I figure ParaMilitary2 models far outsell the Manix2 models?
Unless I'm misremembering it I believe there was a deliberate choice to keep the Manix 2 MSRP low, you might have to do some deep searching but I'm sure it's still here on the forum, probably around 10 years old.
The Manix has always just seemed like the best bang for the buck. Just look at the 15V run:
Manix 2 - $225
PM2 - $292
Shaman - $387
Same size knife, same G-10, same steel but that’s a pretty significant price difference.
Especially if you get into the LW. My M2LW was only $101 with BDN1.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:24 am
by RustyIron
Got a PM2, an M2 heavyweight, and an M2 lightweight sitting on my desk. In half an hour I'm headed out on a hike. The lightweight will be in my pocket because it's the best tool for the job.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:57 am
by Coastal
apollo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:58 am
vanka wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:51 am
Let's not forget about the fact that pm2 is highly customizable. Scales, clips, backspacers, you name it . If there's a material that can be machined there's a good chance there's scales made out of it for the pm2. And it's a closed circle - more options for tinkering with the knife drives the sales up which in turn drives more options for customisation. I've seen backspacers made out of dozens of different materials, backspacers with integrated glass breakers, backspacers turning the pm2 into some kind of karambit and many more. How to get a knife with steel "A", with scales "B", clip "C" and backspacer acting as a small bottle opener and have a fidget factor? Buy pm2 and customize it to your liking.
You clearly never modded a Manix it has the same amount of mods offered as the pm2, only difference is that backspacer mod for the pm2 and the cage mod for the Manix. For the rest clips , scales ( by the way scales for the Manix are cheaper then the pm2 ! ) , waves ,… al are available for both so none of them is better then the other in that way.
Also the Manix is maybe less fidgety but it is far more ambidextrous and that is way more important.
If you want to fidget buy a fidget not a knife…
I agree with both of you. I've modded both knives
a lot. The difference for me is that the PM2 required modding before I would even carry/use it, whereas the the Manix 2 was really nice out of the box, and the Manix 2 LW was great. Aftermarket scales and clips make the PM2 delightful to use, and the Manix 2 about as perfect as a knife can be --
subjectively, of course.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:21 am
by Fine Swine
Well, although I agree that the Manix is better, I do think that this is an entirely subjective decision. For me, it comes down to hating the compression lock. I like pretty much everything else about the PM2 more, but I've resolved not to buy compression lock knives again. I'd really like a titanium framed PM2 with the RIL, though.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:36 pm
by zhyla
This thread reminds me, one of these days I need to grind the jimping down on my Manix 2’s. I don’t know how that bit made it out the door at Spyderco as the rest is a pretty ergonomically clean sewing.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:03 pm
by ZrowsN1s
kennbr34 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:29 am
Ok, part of that is tongue in cheek to tick off the PM2 fans :P
Don't walk it back, the Manix is better. In every way. Better handle, better lock, better blade.
Just for the lock alone really. We need more cbbl knives. Not uncaged ball bearing locks though. I hope Spyderco doesn't judge the demand for CBBL on the sales of uncaged ball bearing locks.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:21 pm
by Coastal
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but why not make a "mid-weight" Manix 2 with G-10 scales, but construction similar to the Lightweight, i.e. small liners to contain the pivot and transfer loads into the scales.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:31 pm
by Paraguy
I appreciate how the lock on the Manix doesn't wear down as quickly however in most cases I find the pm2 to be a more practical knife. The Manix is still great and I kinda like it more, but in use, the pm2 is much slimmer in the pocket and has more versatile ergos. The Manix seems to be better for hard use though.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:33 pm
by Paraguy
Manix LW is an amazing knife btw.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:53 pm
by Albertaboyscott
Manix xl beats them both imo
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:24 pm
by ZrowsN1s
The XL IS amazing.
